Cipres accused of sexual misconduct

[2sk8]

Same. I even had several men impersonating famous people from the army using real pictures of the officers they were impersonating. Who did they think I am, seriously? Like all the highest ranked officers deployed in Afghanistan suddenly wanted to play with me! I had a list of countless men I had to block. Not for impersonating public figures but because they immediately wanted to chat. First line "hello how are you". Second "Are you married ?" Turning off the chat fixture would have kept me from chatting with people I actually know, so I wrote "NO CHATTING PLEASE" in my profile and they could not care less. I removed my picture, changed my screen name and it wasn't enough so I grew tired of turning off games requests from unknown men and I just stopped playing. The report fixture on WWF stopped working ages ago so you can't even get these men to be banned from the game. It's a word game app for feck sake!

Oh, wow, totally OT for this thread, but nice to know I'm not alone in this. I deleted that app for this reason.

 

[SandraMGfan]

That's what students do. Are expected to do from all the others.
Things ARE changing, but not very fast. At my time, it was rolls and rolls of such pictures being voted on and even in schools where there were more girls than boys (like vet schools).
Students also received "acknowledgements" and "medals" for those acts if they were "falluchard" wich is a sort of fraternity.
Not participating in this meant you are pushed "out" of the class.
I never said university/schools (we call them schools not college) ask for it. They'd like for it to change or so they say.
I said it's still pretty much part of the students life.
I hope it'll change, but I've been waiting since 2000 and I still see little change on that part.

I believe the particular case MarieM refers to is called hazing in English (bizutage in French).

 

[2sk8]

Yes, it's being reported on, duh. But
SafeSport investigations are done in quiet. There has been no sanction or investigation mention on their website. So how did Brennan come up with the story? Obviously from a source with knowledge of a private investigation. That is, indeed, a leak.

Almost all of investigative reporting begins with leaks. Where would current political reporting be without them?

I agree with you about SafeSport doing its work in accord with confidentiality requirements, but the article says this was reported to authorities by the child's therapist - who is also a mandatory reporter, but has nothing to do with SafeSport. So, there didn't have to be a "leak" from SafeSport for there to be a story.

 

[Prancer]

@Frau Muller your comment is disgusting. So I suppose this 13 year old had hippie, bra-burning parents and that's why it happened?

Um, grandparents.

An upper-middle-class 13-year-old likely has Gen X parents, but could have Millennial parents, too. Boomer parents, though? Highly unlikely. But it could be that their insidious influence is the root cause, of course, as boomers are the root of all evil.

I had Greatest Generation parents and a stay-at-home mom and all the religion you could ever ask for, and I still got a dick pic when I was a teenager. But there were a lot of heathens around even then and for every generation before mine, too, and the comments that inspired this line of discussion are among the most ridiculous I have ever seen on this board.

Yes, it's being reported on, duh. But
SafeSport investigations are done in quiet. There has been no sanction or investigation mention on their website. So how did Brennan come up with the story? Obviously from a source with knowledge of a private investigation. That is, indeed, a leak.

Almost all of investigative reporting begins with leaks. Where would current political reporting be without them?

There were definitely leaks, but I don't think they came from Dave Lease or Safesport.

 

[Carolla5501]

Just to hazard a guess, I think that since neither were actually involved in the offense themselves, there would be no need to immediately suspend them. As for their delinquency of duty to report, that is what the investigation is for.

Really? It's OK that they basically ignored their legal duty and intimidated a kid to support an abuser. Sorry but USFS needs to suspend them NOW and if it turns out they did everything right they can return, but you don't allow this to just be "well they have no responsibility so we can ignore it". They were involved in the offense by failing to deal with it. They knew, they intimidated the reporter and they failed to report. Where's they "we are not responsible" part in all of that?

 

[Carolla5501]

@Frau Muller your comment is disgusting. So I suppose this 13 year old had hippie, bra-burning parents and that's why it happened?

Some posters where why the ignore feature is such a great option. I missed the trash talk and have no regrets LOL!

 

[kwanfan1818]

Obviously from a source with knowledge of a private investigation

Maybe. Or maybe a source with knowledge of a complaint, which may or may not be private.

 

[Debbie S]

Maybe. Or maybe a source with knowledge of a complaint, which may or may not be private.

Or maybe a source that knew what had happened and, knowing CB has written about abuse/harassment incidents previously, tipped her off and she got on the case. Obviously, she would need people to talk to her, but given how long she's been covering the sport, and Oly sports in general, I'm sure she has quite a few inside sources.

 

[skatfan]

If Safe sport was investigating the coaches, don’t they typically suspend the coaches until they complete the investigation? One would think if this incident was reported months ago that they would suspend the coaches?

No they don’t. They do an initial investigation (see Coughlin) and then they can decide whether an interim measure is necessary.

 

[MarieM]

I believe the particular case MarieM refers to is called hazing in English (bizutage in French).

Hazing takes many forms, and not everytime is called hazing because the society doesn't accept it very much (thank god for that).
IMO refusing to participate is hard, you really are cast out, so either you don't care (like I did) or you do care and it's pretty hard to live through it.
I sure hope things will change more quickly but noone pays attention except when a student does something drastic about it (suicide for worst case scenario).

 

[missing]

I just reread Christine Brennan's article because I'm about to have lunch with my brother the lawyer and I know I'll be asking him about all this (his lawyer skills have no bearing on it, but I'm curious about what he'll say).

One piece of the article is ambiguous, and that is when and how were F/Z informed. "They were made aware of the photos in a meeting with Dispenza at their home that evening, the girl and her parents said."

That suggests, but does not state, that the girl and/or her parents were at that meeting. My assumption had been that they were, but Brennan doesn't say so, just that there was a meeting including F/Z and Dispenza.

The girl then alleges threatening comments made by F/Z and Dispenza, but unlike the penis photographs, Brennan doesn't report seeing any of the comments. The girl alleges them, the coaches deny them (in the rewritten version of the article). Presumably the comments were made orally, but the girl doesn't seem to have told her parents about them, or if she did, her parents weren't sufficiently upset to do anything.

Neither girl who was sent the photographs nor their families appear to have contacted either the police or SafeSport. The police were contacted by the girl's therapist who was alerted to the situation not by the girl or her family but by the girl's tutor. The girl (and presumably her parents) refused to cooperate with the police. No further information is offered about the second girl and her family's actions. SafeSport was contacted a year and a half later by a family friend (presumably of Girl A), after she'd read the Ashley Wagner piece.

I think that's a fair reading of the article. I'm sure if I misread it someone here will correct me, but I'll be at lunch so I won't know what I did wrong for a while.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Apparently we need another summary of Safe Sport procedures. People still assume punitive actions are taken as soon as a case is opened. The first step is going to be a preliminary investigation. If the evidence is strong enough it could be a really short prelim but I would say it's safe to assume that professional standards require that step.

The idea that they are on a snipe hunt needs to stop. The investigators have to meet education and licensing requirements which would be administered by the state. Every profession has bad apples but the vast majority are going to do their job and they have very strict ethical and professional guidelines they must follow or face losing their licenses and jobs. If anyone has an issue with a specific investigator they can lodge a complaint against the state licensing board if they feel their complaints are valid enough.

 

[PRlady]

Hazing takes many forms, and not everytime is called hazing because the society doesn't accept it very much (thank god for that).
IMO refusing to participate is hard, you really are cast out, so either you don't care (like I did) or you do care and it's pretty hard to live through it.
I sure hope things will change more quickly but noone pays attention except when a student does something drastic about it (suicide for worst case scenario).

Somewhat OT, but I was just looking at a story about US college campuses. And while the degree of political nastiness is overstated by the media, the mental health crisis is not. This generation is in much worse shape in terms of personal happiness and self-confidence than its predecessors (and no they generally don’t have boomer parents, our kids are already older than college-age.) I don’t know if there’s a connection to the overwhelming amount of technological connection, but could be.

 

[millyskate]

Just to confirm that institutionalised hazing has been happening for decades in France's top schools (which are separate from the university system). The hazing is methodically organised by alumni associations and refusing to take part impacts a student throughout their time in the institution, and potential professional prospects. Some schools are notoriously horrendous for it in particular, and change has been painfully slow.
Opting out is much more complicated than simply not being part of a fraternity, like in the US.

The hazing has routinely included sexual violence. In fact seeing an absolutely shocking feature on French news about this scarred me for life, and was one of the reasons I chose to study in the UK. To this day the images shown are engraved more deeply in my mind than almost anything I've seen on the news, ahead of even the torture images of war prisoners by soldiers in Irak.

ETA: just seen that one of the most notorious schools finally banned hazing. In 2018.

ETA x2: This article was published in October. Students being pushed to create chains out of their bras, and drink toilet water. Just a regular uni... Not the horrendous stuff that used to happen but still abusive.

À Rennes 2, le week-end d’intégration a-t-il dépassé les bornes ?

Guirlande de soutiens-gorge, incités à boire l’eau des WC… Des « défis » du week-end d’intégration d’étudiants en sport de l’université Rennes 2, pourraient déboucher sur des sanctions.

www.ouest-france.fr

 

[barbarafan]

Zimmerman and Fontana's actions were worse. Not only did they not report Cipres they actively threatened the girl into silence. Despicable and I'd hope they never work with kids again.

Was Cipres one of the ones who threatened the girl?.

 

[Colonel Green]

One piece of the article is ambiguous, and that is when and how were F/Z informed. "They were made aware of the photos in a meeting with Dispenza at their home that evening, the girl and her parents said."

That suggests, but does not state, that the girl and/or her parents were at that meeting. My assumption had been that they were, but Brennan doesn't say so, just that there was a meeting including F/Z and Dispenza.

Yes, it's not explicit, but I have no idea how else the family would know such a meeting occurred if they weren't present for it.

 

[Sylvia]

Was Cipres one of the ones who threatened the girl?

No. The article doesn't say that.

The girl then alleges threatening comments made by F/Z and Dispenza, but unlike the penis photographs, Brennan doesn't report seeing any of the comments. The girl alleges them, the coaches deny them (in the rewritten version of the article). Presumably the comments were made orally, but the girl doesn't seem to have told her parents about them, or if she did, her parents weren't sufficiently upset to do anything.

Link (again) to Brennan's article, updated version: https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...skater-coaches-being-investigated/2629777001/

 

[feraina]

Have you considered that maybe the girl's family or representatives (with her permission) contacted Brennan themselves, directly, because of her good record in reporting on other instances of child sexual abuse in figure skating? Would that be a leak, by your definition - people speaking out on their own behalf, to draw attention to a wrong and fight an injustice, and let other parents and kids know that they might be in danger if they continue to skate at that rink?

Considering it was reported to SafeSport four months ago, and the coaches haven’t even been contacted (I wonder if they found out about the investigation through the article), maybe the family got impatient with how long things are taking and decided to take things into their own hands? I guess the publicity would force SS to be speedier with this case. Although I’m sure SS wasn’t sitting around on purpose if they had the manpower to handle all their cases.

 

[Vash01]

Yes, it's not explicit, but I have no idea how else the family would know such a meeting occurred if they weren't present for it.

They could have been told about it.

 

[Vash01]

What is the demographic breakdown of FSU? I knew it skewed slightly older, but I'm surprised that so many posters are baffled by the idea of dick pics when it's par for the course for Millenials and Gen Z.

Are you trying to justify that kind of behavior just because they belong to a certain age group?

 

[Polaris]

My god, some of the wildly out-of-touch and sanctimonious posts on this thread really encapsulate the sentiment behind the "OK boomer" catchphrase to a T.

 

[BrightSkates]

@VGThuy Yeah it's definitely a thing in the LBGTQ scene from what I've heard. But for the vast majority of people I know it's not a thing. Of the Gen Z'ers I know literally none are overly interested in sex right now, even those in relationships. It's kinda strange how in general they seem less all over each other when I walk by the high school compared to the straight up make-out sessions I saw out front and all over town in my high school days. Heck, as young as middle school kids at my school would try to go to local sex shops or would order sex toys as gag gifts for their high school friends. Now I see blushing high schoolers trying not to make eye contact with the sex shop near my apartment. That alone suggests to me most Gen Z'ers aren't requesting nudes prior to dating.

I disagree. The way kids act in public is different than online. I know plenty of kids who are shy in social settings but very different online on apps such as tik tok, instagram, and snapchat. If anything I think they are taking their relationships online first.
https://twitter.com/RespectfulMemes/status/1204800200033759232?s=19

 

[Polaris]

Are you trying to justify that kind of behavior just because they belong to a certain age group?

No, I don't know where you got that idea. I expressing surprise that quite a number of posters here are learning about the prevalence of dick pics for the first time and clutching their pearls about it when it's common behavior knowledge (or so I thought). There's no justification of anything going on.

 

[puglover]

It sounds like someone, the parents presumably, have acted in the best interest of their child by getting her away from the situation and seeking professional counseling for her. One would think the goal of the counseling would be to provide a safe place for her to really open up about what happened and who said and did what. Most importantly any guilt or personal responsibility could be alleviated by a skilled therapist, which could make her able to see herself as the injured party and willing to speak about it.

 

[AxelAnnie]

My goodness, some of the wildly out-of-touch and sanctimonious posts on this thread really encapsulate the sentiments behind the "OK boomer" catchphrase to a T.

You must be a thrill at a party.

 

[hanca]

I am so glad I am old. Requesting nudes before a first date? How do people think that behavior is decent?

I guess if someone plans to sleep with the person on the first date, then having picture ahead is like a preview, to see whether it is worth even turning up for the date. It may not be decent, but it definitely is practical; it saves time.

 

[Vash01]

My goodness, some of the wildly out-of-touch and sanctimonious posts on this thread really encapsulate the sentiments behind the "OK boomer" catchphrase to a T.

You come across as condescending toward anyone who is older than you.

 

[tony]

You must be a thrill at a party.

I don’t understand this reply.

I think the major separation in this thread (which is drifting) is that some people just absolutely cannot comprehend that things (can) happen— seemingly because they don’t occur in the ‘bubble’ of their own worlds. Therefore, their attitudes are that it must not be common or it’s not normal.

I don’t think anyone here is acting like they are better than anyone else, but I do think some people are much more understanding that behavior and norms extend past what we surround ourselves with, either by choice or by profession or whatever.

 

[Polaris]

You come across as condescending toward anyone who is older than you.

Nah. Only those people who are out of touch and/or throw out offensive statements like "won't someone think of the poor, innocent men!" and then get supremely insulted when they're called out on their behavior.

Plenty older posters in this thread have responded in with compassion, understanding, and open-mindedness and I have no issue with them.

 

[Vash01]

I don’t understand this reply.

I think the major separation in this thread (which is drifting) is that some people just absolutely cannot comprehend that things (can) happen— seemingly because they don’t occur in the ‘bubble’ of their own worlds. Therefore, their attitudes are that it must not be common or it’s not normal.

I don’t think anyone here is acting like they are better than anyone else, but I do think some people are much more understanding that behavior and norms extend past what we surround ourselves with, either by choice or by profession or whatever.

Another one justifying Cipres’ behavior - just shrug it off because he is in his 20s? The young girl was traumatized from what I gathered from the articles. Her parents and the psychologist got involvedbevause they were concerned. You are saying it’s no big deal. Is this what you expect SS to say in their report? Just because a certain age group does this sort of thing, it should be accepted by all?