Coughlin's Former Pairs Partner Alleges He Abused Her

[Winnipeg]

I am getting this guy mixed up I am sure but wasn't he the one who proposed to his partner on the ice at the US Championships??

 

[meggonzo]

I am getting this guy mixed up I am sure but wasn't he the one who proposed to his partner on the ice at the US Championships??

No, that was John Baldwin.

 

[Winnipeg]

Right, thanks meggonzo!

I never was much enthralled with the proposal done that way but to each his own.

 

[JamieElena]

At no point did I say I have no respect for that, but I think the responsibility some of the skaters have as public figures outweigh their need to grieve a friend publicly when it comes to a complex issue as sexual abuse. Not to mention they had to know what that will do to the accusers and it did feel like many of them didn't seem to even think about that.

Perhaps we could consult with Emily Post on the proper way to grieve when you're a public figure? I'm sure there's a guidebook somewhere, so that everyone can grieve in a fashion that is acceptable to everyone. Because telling people how to grieve is never tacky or anything like that.

ETA: I also have 100% control over my emotions & think with psychic clarity when someone I know has died. Said no one ever.

 

[mag]

John did something bad, we know that now. And yes, his victims deserve our utmost sympathy for their traumas, as well as our respect and support for their bravery.

But people are allowed to grieve the loss of a loved one, regardless of his or her shortcomings. The man hanged himself, which is devastating. For family and friends, John had a positive impact on their lives, completely apart from his misdeeds. That, too, deserves our respect.

Perhaps we could consult with Emily Post on the proper way to grieve when you're a public figure? I'm sure there's a guidebook somewhere, so that everyone can grieve in a fashion that is acceptable to everyone. Because telling people how to grieve is never tacky or anything like that.

ETA: I also have 100% control over my emotions & think with psychic clarity when someone I know has died. Said no one ever.

I am beginning to think some people are being deliberately obtuse. Go back and read what @angi posted. There is a big difference between posting a RIP and making a post about what an amazing person someone was, how they were the best, most loving, most kind person to ever walk the earth (which is what some skaters did post.) If nothing else, at least this proves that character references are completely useless and irrelevant. When someone dies as dramatically as John did, yes emotions run high, but, and it is a big but, for skaters who should have been aware of his suspension, posting an all out love fest proclaiming him the best person ever is in poor taste and irresponsible at best. Someone with a platform as big Adam Rippon should know better or should take the time to learn.

This is actually not as complicated as it is being made out to be. If people can’t see the difference, maybe they should stay of social media.

 

[angi]

I am beginning to think some people are being deliberately obtuse. Go back and read what @angi posted. There is a big difference between posting a RIP and making a post about what an amazing person someone was, how they were the best, most loving, most kind person to ever walk the earth (which is what some skaters did post.) If nothing else, at least this proves that character references are completely useless and irrelevant. When someone dies as dramatically as John did, yes emotions run high, but, and it is a big but, for skaters who should have been aware of his suspension, posting an all out love fest proclaiming him the best person ever is in poor taste and irresponsible at best. Someone with a platform as big Adam Rippon should know better or should take the time to learn.

This is actually not as complicated as it is being made out to be. If people can’t see the difference, maybe they should stay of social media.

Thank you. It's amazing how some people insist on missing the point.

Perhaps we could consult with Emily Post on the proper way to grieve when you're a public figure? I'm sure there's a guidebook somewhere, so that everyone can grieve in a fashion that is acceptable to everyone. Because telling people how to grieve is never tacky or anything like that.

ETA: I also have 100% control over my emotions & think with psychic clarity when someone I know has died. Said no one ever.

Telling public figures not to glorify someone accused of sexual abuse on a public platform is something completely reasonable and honestly it's surprising and sad it even needs to be said. And if they choose to do it publicly it's ok to hold them accountable for it (and before you miss this point as well - hold them accountable does not mean harras and bully them).

 

[Debbie S]

Yes, top skaters are public figures, to a degree, but social media is their personal platform for expression (as opposed to making your students wear tribute hats on nat'l TV). They aren't responsible for how others interpret their comments. People in general should be savvy and educated enough to know that one person's opinion should not influence their evaluation of an independent investigation/report. Yes, many of the skaters' followers are kids but that should be a teachable moment for their parents and other adults in their lives: understand the source and evaluate each piece of evidence critically.

I read many of the skater tributes on social media and I recognized them as friends grieving a friend's sudden death. While some posts did praise John, they didn't make any reference IIRC to the alleged victims and guilt vs innocence. And I read the articles describing the evidence independently of whatever I read on a skater's IG.

 

[angi]

Yes, top skaters are public figures, to a degree, but social media is their personal platform for expression (as opposed to making your students wear tribute hats on nat'l TV). They aren't responsible for how others interpret their comments.

For me, this reasoning becomes irrelevant in this day and age when the same social media account is used to promote their brands as skaters and even more - promote their various sponsors and they are posting paid content. Their social media accounts are not just a private place, it's a promotional tool on a public platform. They have absolutely every right to use their accounts however they see fit and kudos to them for benefiting from their hard work and dedication, but their accounts are in no way a private and personal platform.

They aren't responsible for how others interpret their comments. People in general should be savvy and educated enough to know that one person's opinion should not influence their evaluation of an independent investigation/report. Yes, many of the skaters' followers are kids but that should be a teachable moment for their parents and other adults in their lives: understand the source and evaluate each piece of evidence critically.

That's not how social media works, unfortunately. And how many ways are there exactly to interpret posts which are praising and glorifying an abuser without acknowledging the allegation which he is facing? Especially when while the skaters were aware of the accusations, the general public subjected to those post was not.

 

[Carolla5501]

"Sweetheart" is so condescending here, especially directed toward someone brave enough to step forward in light of people like you. And as others have said, she misspoke out of duress. I wish I were surprised that people were latching onto this, and not onto what she is accusing him of.

Honestly, I meant to be condescending. Her attempt to claim all suicide victims as "guilty" to prove her point only diminished her entire post IMHO.

"Duress"? What was someone holding a gun to her head saying "you have to tell the world that John abused you?"

As I said I am fine with her accusation and she may well be telling the truth I am willing to accept that and not even trying to defend John. But I would dare to say that MOST suicide victims are guilty of nothing more than depression. So yes she should be adult enough to know that innocent people do hang themselves!

 

[coppertop1]

Honestly, I meant to be condescending. Her attempt to claim all suicide victims as "guilty" to prove her point only diminished her entire post IMHO.

"Duress"? What was someone holding a gun to her head saying "you have to tell the world that John abused you?"

As I said I am fine with her accusation and she may well be telling the truth I am willing to accept that and not even trying to defend John. But I would dare to say that MOST suicide victims are guilty of nothing more than depression. So yes she should be adult enough to know that innocent people do hang themselves!

Yes, let's expect the victim to be perfect but defend those who defend Coughin. Things are backwards.

 

[Teamgracie]

I think we need to be understanding of both, the victim posting and the grief postings made by friends. Why can’t we do that? Why be so judgmental about either of these? It was and is a terribly sad situation and there is no easy, simple correct response.

 

[believed]

Honestly, I meant to be condescending. Her attempt to claim all suicide victims as "guilty" to prove her point only diminished her entire post IMHO.

"Duress"? What was someone holding a gun to her head saying "you have to tell the world that John abused you?"

As I said I am fine with her accusation and she may well be telling the truth I am willing to accept that and not even trying to defend John. But I would dare to say that MOST suicide victims are guilty of nothing more than depression. So yes she should be adult enough to know that innocent people do hang themselves!

For those still wondering, this is another reason why victims don’t tell.

 

[angi]

I think we need to be understanding of both, the victim posting and the grief postings made by friends. Why can’t we do that? Why be so judgmental about either of these? It was and is a terribly sad situation and there is no easy, simple correct response.

I do understand and I have a lot of respect for most of the skaters (those who attacked the accusers lost my respect) but the grief postings made by friends had the potential to be (and probably was) very damaging to the cause and to the victims and that's something that justifies the judgment as far as I'm concerned, especially when my judgment is not about public shaming the skaters but about educating them on the damage their actions can cause (and again, probably caused).

 

[Teamgracie]

But using that same judgement is going both ways. I don’t know of any perfect human and both of these situations cause great pain to most people. So I’m not going to judge and say what is right, just don’t think that gets us anywhere or shows compassion.

 

[Carolla5501]

Yes, let's expect the victim to be perfect but defend those who defend Coughin. Things are backwards.

Did I defend John? NO!

However, I am willing to let this victim attack everyone else who has lost loved ones to suicide with her "only guilty people do that" statement. That can be just as harmful to people struggling with the aftermath of a suicide What makes one "victim" better than another?


As for the "duress" statement. Duress is defined as "threats, violence, constraints, or other action brought to bear on someone to do something against their will or better judgment. " Sadly this young lady may have been forced under duress to engage inappropriate acts with John. Hopefully no one helping her now is engaging in that type of behavior to force her to go public because if they are then they are doing the WRONG thing IMHO. If she is being forced under duress to post on social media that brings up real questions as to the motive of the person who is forcing her to do this. If she has chosen to go public on her own as part of the healing then good for her, but if as was alleged on here she posted this under duress then that's incredibly scary and makes me wonder why.


As for why she stayed... sadly most victims of abuse stay. Often they are afraid that they can't make it on their own and in the case of a female pair skater that would be a very valid fear. She might know that there aren't many other options so it's "put up with it" or "give up my dream". I can see a young lady not making what we might think from this view making decisions that we now go "why?". Abuse victims often stay for reasons that to the outside world seem unbelievable so why would a young skater be expected to be more knowledgeable than others who have stayed?

 

[Artistic Skaters]

What do you define as “real schooling”? Too many public schools in the U.S. are garbage and the social environment can be horrific.

There is plenty to review about how education is handled for many of the athletes within the skating community, so the discussion doesn't even need to be directed toward a general analysis of quality in public schools to make improvements for a lot of these skaters. Here is my list of some problematic issues:

Coaches have no responsibility for the education of skaters, yet many of them restrict skating schedules for their own personal gain or convenience. Example: A coach demands to teach skaters on the 10 am ice session x 5 days per week, which is a time when skaters are normally in school. Parents are required to adhere to this schedule if they want this coach to instruct their skaters, and will often "home school" children to comply with the demands of the coach. Sometimes others in the group enable the situation and manipulate parents in order to help the coach. They encourage parents and skaters early on to prioritize skating first at all costs. Such decisions are made to accommodate the wishes of the coach and not the needs or best interests of the skater.

There is a wide variance in home school regulations from state to state. When I was involved with skating, parents could be found "teaching" young skaters at the rink during the Zamboni break or between ice sessions, in a fly by the seat of the pants fashion, often without even a basic computer curriculum or workbook. I know brilliant children who have received a top quality education but they were home schooled by parents who were willing to seek out all the necessary resources to make it happen, and the students put in the time to actually learn the materials. While there are some parents who ensure this happens for their skaters, just as or more frequently there are those who do not. Again, it's because the original decision is made to cut time and corners, and not to address a quality education for skaters.

A couple simple requirements could make immediate improvements for skaters. All skaters who don't attend a brick and mortar school need to be enrolled in a state approved curriculum, for example the one offered by Calvert School. Some states offer really mediocre options, but even so it's a step up from what some skaters receive.

Also there have been incidents when the coaches have been able to take charge of the education of the skaters. I have seen a coach delegate these duties to an unqualified parent in their group. There is also the case of Donald Vincent, who used it to gain access and control to skaters, and the skaters ended up being abused. It is a conflict of interest that can easily be restricted considering most coaches are not academic educators.

 

[MsZem]

I do understand and I have a lot of respect for most of the skaters (those who attacked the accusers lost my respect) but the grief postings made by friends had the potential to be (and probably was) very damaging to the cause and to the victims and that's something that justifies the judgment as far as I'm concerned, especially when my judgment is not about public shaming the skaters but about educating them on the damage their actions can cause (and again, probably caused).

There's really no need for a massive number of people to publicly educate someone who's young and grieving. Eventually it stops being educational and becomes abusive. With a few notable exceptions, most of the skaters who posted at the time didn't deserve that.

I think it's pretty clear by now that John Coughlin hurt multiple people. But this is something that's difficult to process for those who only had positive experiences with him. While Bridget and the other unnamed accusers deserve our compassion and support above and beyond anyone else, keep in mind that it isn't easy to deal with the premature death of someone you knew - or thought you knew.

 

[canbelto]

Honestly, I meant to be condescending. Her attempt to claim all suicide victims as "guilty" to prove her point only diminished her entire post IMHO.

"Duress"? What was someone holding a gun to her head saying "you have to tell the world that John abused you?"

As I said I am fine with her accusation and she may well be telling the truth I am willing to accept that and not even trying to defend John. But I would dare to say that MOST suicide victims are guilty of nothing more than depression. So yes she should be adult enough to know that innocent people do hang themselves!

And you're another instant ignore with the victim shaming.

 

[aliona22]

It's chilling to read that this man abused his teenage partner for two years while living in her parents' home with her, then went on to spend the next 12 years at a high professional level within the sport. Bridget was abused over a long period of time, and it sounds like others may have been aware of it. Doesn't that scare anyone? I think it's terrifying, what else did this guy do to the young athletes he had access to? And yet in this thread, we have people psychoanalyzing and attacking Bridget's statements, criticizing her behavior, citing age of consent laws... it's sickening and it's all victim-shaming. We don't know what her life has been like since that time, or why she chose to come forward in this way. If Bridget says she was abused, it's not our place to say "no you weren't!" or "that's not PC!" Support her, believe her, give her the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Artistic Skaters]

There is an article in The Washington Post about SafeSport and the problems the organization is having with funding.

*** Olympic sex-abuse prevention center needs federal funding help, USOC chief says :
https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...r-needs-federal-funding-help-usoc-chief-says/

Sarah Hirshland, the U.S. Olympic Committee’s chief executive, has been making regular trips from Colorado to Capitol Hill, warning lawmakers that funding is inadequate for the Center for SafeSport, the organization tasked with policing and preventing sexual abuse in Olympic sports organizations.

Hirshland says some form of federal funding is needed in order for the center to function as intended, and she has been asking lawmakers to provide support similar to what the U.S. government gives the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, a similarly independent nonprofit that receives nearly $10 million annually in the form of a government grant.

“The conversations that I’ve been having are not just, by the way we need money,” she said following Wednesday’s panel discussion. “The natural reaction to some of that is, ‘Why are we paying for your problem?’ The answer is, actually let’s have a conversation about the scope of the mandate that you put in place.

“If in fact the expectation is that our organization — which is A.) an unfunded mandate and B.) a relatively small organization — has a mandate for the investigation, response, resolution and adjudication for sexual abuse allegations across a population of 20 million young athletes in every club and rink, this is an unsustainable promise. It’s almost like a little bit of a broken reality that we’ve got to reconcile.”

 

[JamieElena]

Telling public figures not to glorify someone accused of sexual abuse on a public platform is something completely reasonable and honestly it's surprising and sad it even needs to be said. And if they choose to do it publicly it's ok to hold them accountable for it (and before you miss this point as well - hold them accountable does not mean harras and bully them).

I'm not being obtuse or missing the point, I'm just wondering in what book does it spell out what's reasonable and what's not when it comes to grieving? What you want to label "terrible, rotten, harmful tribute posts", I call part of someone's grieving process. Maybe I've been to more funerals and since I'm closer to my reckoning, it's not so black and white for me as it is for you.

Unfortunately, repeated calls - no, DEMANDS (because that's these are, make no mistake) for apologies and posts of support for the victims from mid-level skaters who donated to a gofundme to pay for a funeral for a father who cut his son down, DO constitute harassment and bullying in my estimation.

 

[canbelto]

I'm not being obtuse or missing the point, I'm just wondering in what book does it spell out what's reasonable and what's not when it comes to grieving? What you want to label "terrible, rotten, harmful tribute posts", I call part of someone's grieving process. Maybe I've been to more funerals and since I'm closer to my reckoning, it's not so black and white for me as it is for you.

Unfortunately, repeated calls - no, DEMANDS (because that's these are, make no mistake) for apologies and posts of support for the victims from mid-level skaters who donated to a gofundme to pay for a funeral for a father who cut his son down, DO constitute harassment and bullying in my estimation.

Imo his family those skaters and Delilah and his agent all deserve bullying and harassment. They all enabled an abuser and defend the undefensible.

 

[UGG]

Honestly, I meant to be condescending. Her attempt to claim all suicide victims as "guilty" to prove her point only diminished her entire post IMHO.

"Duress"? What was someone holding a gun to her head saying "you have to tell the world that John abused you?"

As I said I am fine with her accusation and she may well be telling the truth I am willing to accept that and not even trying to defend John. But I would dare to say that MOST suicide victims are guilty of nothing more than depression. So yes she should be adult enough to know that innocent people do hang themselves!

I am pretty sure she was only speaking about her own personal experience. I don’t see any reason to believe she was speaking about every single situation that ever existed in regards to someone choosing to end their life. That really would not make sense in this instance.

 

[skatemomaz]

Imo his family those skaters and Delilah and his agent all deserve bullying and harassment. They all enabled an abuser and defend the undefensible.

Nobody deserves bullying and harassment, how does that solve anything? Delilah and Tara in particular should be called out, but surely that can be done without bullying.

 

[angi]

I'm not being obtuse or missing the point, I'm just wondering in what book does it spell out what's reasonable and what's not when it comes to grieving? What you want to label "terrible, rotten, harmful tribute posts", I call part of someone's grieving process. Maybe I've been to more funerals and since I'm closer to my reckoning, it's not so black and white for me as it is for you.

"Terrible" and "Rotten" are your words and not mine since I've never used them. "Harmful" I did use and I 100% stand behind it. There's no guide on how to grieve but grieving is not a free pass to behave however you want, consequences be damned. I'm also not saying it's black or white, but it's also not as simple as labeling it as "complex" and moving on. And please don't assume things about past experiences on any of the posters here, I don't think it's right or respectful.

Unfortunately, repeated calls - no, DEMANDS (because that's these are, make no mistake) for apologies and posts of support for the victims from mid-level skaters who donated to a gofundme to pay for a funeral for a father who cut his son down, DO constitute harassment and bullying in my estimation.

Again, I made no such demand and I condemned the harassment and bullying skaters were subjected to all the way back in my first post. It is worth noting that those who felt disappointed by the actions of skaters they respected are entitled to those feelings (again, without engaging in any form of bullying). And lastly, the gofundme specifically stated that the money was not only for the funeral but also for the legal actions the family will take following what happened, and it's not farfetched to assume the legal actions might also include a smear campaign against the accusers since it's the first move in any sexual abuse case (you know, like calling the accuser "Unbalanced"...) so being disappointed that skaters contributed money for that cause is also understandable (once again, without engaging in any form of bullying).

 

[canbelto]

Nobody deserves bullying and harassment, how does that solve anything? Delilah and Tara in particular should be called out, but surely that can be done without bullying.

They've been bullying and harassing the victims for months. And Christine Brennan. And David Lease. They need a taste of their own medicine.

 

[JamieElena]

I am beginning to think some people are being deliberately obtuse. Go back and read what @angi posted. There is a big difference between posting a RIP and making a post about what an amazing person someone was, how they were the best, most loving, most kind person to ever walk the earth (which is what some skaters did post.) If nothing else, at least this proves that character references are completely useless and irrelevant. When someone dies as dramatically as John did, yes emotions run high, but, and it is a big but, for skaters who should have been aware of his suspension, posting an all out love fest proclaiming him the best person ever is in poor taste and irresponsible at best. Someone with a platform as big Adam Rippon should know better or should take the time to learn.

This is actually not as complicated as it is being made out to be. If people can’t see the difference, maybe they should stay of social media.

Did Adam not come correct? Did he not do it good enough for everyone's liking?

How, exactly, in your estimation should these skaters who posted tribute posts after the suicide of their friend, make amends for the errors of their ways? What would make it all better?

 

[overedge]

How, exactly, in your estimation should these skaters who posted tribute posts after the suicide of their friend, make amends for the errors of their ways? What would make it all better?

Something along the lines of "I believe and support victims of abuse in my sport", or calling for more resources for SafeSport to do its work (see the story @Artistic Skaters linked above), would be a start.

 

[JamieElena]

"Terrible" and "Rotten" are your words and not mine since I've never used them. "Harmful" I did use and I 100% stand behind it. There's no guide on how to grieve but grieving is not a free pass to behave however you want, consequences be damned. I'm also not saying it's black or white, but it's also not as simple as labeling it as "complex" and moving on. And please don't assume things about past experiences on any of the posters here, I don't think it's right or respectful.


Again, I made no such demand and I condemned the harassment and bullying skaters were subjected to all the way back in my first post. It is worth noting that those who felt disappointed by the actions of skaters they respected are entitled to those feelings (again, without engaging in any form of bullying). And lastly, the gofundme specifically stated that the money was not only for the funeral but also for the legal actions the family will take following what happened, and it's not farfetched to assume the legal actions might also include a smear campaign against the accusers since it's the first move in any sexual abuse case (you know, like calling the accuser "Unbalanced"...) so being disappointed that skaters contributed money for that cause is also understandable (once again, without engaging in any form of bullying).

You can say you're not making demands, but that's not my take away from your posts. And, unfortunately you agree with people who are demanding and wishing miserable lives on skaters who just donated to a funeral.

 

[JamieElena]

Something along the lines of "I believe and support victims of abuse in my sport", or calling for more resources for SafeSport to do its work (see the story @Artistic Skaters linked above), would be a start.

Great, how do we go about getting that to happen for y'all?