The boot saga continues :(

[Lanie]

Figured I'd ask. Y'all know my boot saga, right? Yeah. Years of ill fitting skates, wasting lots and lots of money. Newest problem: Jackson skates too tight. They are 2 1/2 D-E or something like that.

I tried on a 3 B on a lark tonight at the rink after my class, as I can't skate longer than 30 minutes. They feel too small. Foot goes numb, especially the toes; I left 'em there to be punched out in the toe box and stretched... Buuut these size 3s fit better despite it being a bit narrow. Am pondering just buying some 3Ds I've found online. Do you think that is a stupid idea?

I have 2 1/2 D Spteri where I've removed the insole and it fits fine but it's obviously not pleasant, so was pondering trying to find VERY THIN insoles and going back to those, but that means new blades as my old blades (Coronation Aces I believe) are a bit too long.

Gah. HELP.

 

[antmanb]

Which brands have you used in the past Lanie? Have you ever had a pair of boots that fit well?

I only have experience with Risport (far too narrow for my foot) and Riedell which my first boot fitter ordered in a wide ball fit which was exactly what I needed. I understand from my latest order of Riedells that nearly every part of the boot can be specified at stock prices (the toe box, ball of foot width and heel). The pro shop that ordered mine never recommends Riedell as they have no demonstration models for people to try and getting the measurements correct is apparently quite tricky unless you already have a pair and want the same specification.

I've noticed extra letters on my new Riedells and it feels like the heel is tighter, which is actually good because my old boots didn't fell as tight in the heel so I think I've inadvertently ended up with a slight difference but one that works.

 

[Bunny Hop]

I have 2 1/2 D Spteri where I've removed the insole and it fits fine but it's obviously not pleasant, so was pondering trying to find VERY THIN insoles and going back to those.

I have also removed the insoles from my boots (the arch support was pressing on my arch and giving me pain), and I did manage to find very think insoles with sticky backs so they don't slip around. They weren't even expensive - I got them from the supermarket. So that's definitely do-able.

 

[ioana]

The one drawback to removing original soles (for me) was lack of padding/warmth. The original Jackson insoles were really nice, but my arch was too high for my feet to fit in properly. Fit was fine afterwards, but skating in the winter definitely required fleece bootcovers/leg warmers over the boot since my feet would freeze after about 25 mins otherwise. Might not be an issue depending on how cold your rink is, though. Also, in case the online boots are really cheap, you could try buying them? I got my first pair of higher level boots on ebay since I knew my Jackson size and they worked out really well, but YMMV when it comes to that.

 

[Tavi]

Figured I'd ask. Y'all know my boot saga, right? Yeah. Years of ill fitting skates, wasting lots and lots of money. Newest problem: Jackson skates too tight. They are 2 1/2 D-E or something like that.

I tried on a 3 B on a lark tonight at the rink after my class, as I can't skate longer than 30 minutes. They feel too small. Foot goes numb, especially the toes; I left 'em there to be punched out in the toe box and stretched... Buuut these size 3s fit better despite it being a bit narrow. Am pondering just buying some 3Ds I've found online. Do you think that is a stupid idea?

I have 2 1/2 D Spteri where I've removed the insole and it fits fine but it's obviously not pleasant, so was pondering trying to find VERY THIN insoles and going back to those, but that means new blades as my old blades (Coronation Aces I believe) are a bit too long.

Gah. HELP.

So I’m sympathetic, but unfortunately I don’t know your boot saga. My questions:

1. Do you have a Jackson foot (wider forefoot, narrower heel)?
2. It sounds like you may just be guessing about sizing? Im sure you know this, but just because you wore a 2-1/2 D in Spteri doesn’t mean that’s your Jackson size - are you sure it’s correct? Do you have a good fitter?
3. Is this a stock boot or a custom one? If it’s a stock boot, maybe it’s time to consider customs?

I needed custom skates because my feet are quite hard to fit. As a low level recreational skater it was a tough decision to make, but I love skating and my feet were always hurting. The main thing, I think, is having a really good fitter. Mine refused to put me in Harlicks despite my begging (I loved the color options) because of the shape of my foot - he has been fitting competitive skaters for years, and said he’d never successfully put anyone with my foot shape into Harlicks. I ended up in Jackson’s which are great for me.

Good luck!

 

[Lanie]

I have never had a brand that fit well. This saga goes back from the year I joined FSU and got back into skating.

I've tried custom Spteri, and Harlick, and now these Jackson ones. I have smaller ankles but VERY wide, small feet. Think fat duck feet in a child's foot and there's my foot, lol. It's frustrating having spent SO much money on boots and trying different brands but they all have caused the same issue - I can't skate for much longer than 20 minutes before I want to die. My foot will go numb after that, then I can skate, but that can't possibly be good.

@Bunny Hop, what insoles did you get? For the Jackson boot (I was recommended to try Jackson again at the behest of the fitter at the rink and he knows his stuff, so I trust him utterly) I had those custom fit ones where you put your foot in a plastic bag and it sucks all the air out. It was odd. Perhaps it's the insole messing the fit of the boot up? It was the same issue with the Spiteri and Harlick, they felt better without the insole but it is not fun to wear a boot without it. I have high arches too so I need the support.

I wear a 2 1/2 in every boot I've used, though my street size is a 4 1/2 and I can wear size 5 shoes sometimes--they're just a bit big.

Thanks everyone. I've been venting about this here for years

 

[Debbie S]

Hugs, @Lanie! I have feet similar to yours (small - 5 1/2 in street shoes - wide at the ball and narrow at the heel) and I tried Riedell, GAM, SP-Teri and Jackson before getting custom Klingbeils (which of course don't exist anymore). Thankfully, they worked and are still going strong after 12 years (I stopped doing FS about a year after I got them and just do MIF and a little dance) b/c I'm afraid to get new skates, lol.

FWIW, I was a 4 in SP-Teri and Jackson...differential between street shoe and skate size seems to be about 1 1/2. If you are a 4 1/2 in street shoes, maybe try a 3 in skates? Is there a good fitter you can go to? I was going to suggest customs but you said you've already tried those...given your location (SoCal?) you might want to take a day (or overnight) trip to Harlick or SP-Teri directly and have them fit you, rather than a local fitter.

 

[Lanie]

@Debbie S, I did a trip to Harlick way back in college to get those Harlick boots! My mom lives up north so it was a nice little trip... I worked all summer to pay for those suckers, haha. They were too tight, as well. I think it is just the problem of our feet size!

I went ahead and ordered gently used size 3 D boots. I think it can work fine for now, we'll see.

I'm now worried about my son who has inherited my feet, though they're normal size for his age, haha. He's fallen in love with skating but I hope he doesn't have my boot problems!

 

[treesprite]

Good luck.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

I had to go look at my skates, because I'd thought I'd removed the insoles at the suggestion of my fitter, and sure enough, I had. I skate without insoles! Who knew?

 

[hanca]

Lanie, could it be how you tie your boots? When I started skating, I was under the impression that the boots need to be done really tight, and that was causing my cramps after 20 mins because I cut off my blood circulation. Then I read in one helpful book that it needs to be really loose in toe area, because the toes need space. It needs to be tight where food goes from horizontal to vertical (near the ankle) to provide enough support. But it again needs to be looser near rhe top of the boot because you need to be able to bend. I also learned to leave the top hook unused and the next hook not very tight, only below that it got tighter. And suddenly my feet thanked me and I was able to skate much longer. I still occasionally got cramps because the boots were too narrow, but the problem was not only the boots, ot was also me thinking that making it tight is good for me. I know it feels secure to have it tight (at least it did initially) but it is really counter productive.

 

[Lanie]

Lanie, could it be how you tie your boots? When I started skating, I was under the impression that the boots need to be done really tight, and that was causing my cramps after 20 mins because I cut off my blood circulation. Then I read in one helpful book that it needs to be really loose in toe area, because the toes need space. It needs to be tight where food goes from horizontal to vertical (near the ankle) to provide enough support. But it again needs to be looser near rhe top of the boot because you need to be able to bend. I also learned to leave the top hook unused and the next hook not very tight, only below that it got tighter. And suddenly my feet thanked me and I was able to skate much longer. I still occasionally got cramps because the boots were too narrow, but the problem was not only the boots, ot was also me thinking that making it tight is good for me. I know it feels secure to have it tight (at least it did initially) but it is really counter productive.

I've tried loosening them in the widest part of my foot and it doesn't help much. I'll try again when I get them back after some time on the boot stretcher.

Supposedly I'll get those 3Ds I ordered in tomorrow, we'll see if that works too! It sucks with how much I love skating how problematic boots have always been.

 

[Bunny Hop]

@Bunny Hop, what insoles did you get?

They're bog standard inner soles from the supermarket - brand name Footcare. They're completely flat (i.e. no arch support at all) and very thin. Basically they are just there to cover up the nails and stuff on the inside of the boot. This is them:
https://www.bigw.com.au/product/footcare-slim-gel-comfort-insoles-black-spot/p/716213/

 

[Lanie]

I received the size 3 D Riedells in the mail today. They fit pretty well! I have a tiny bit of extra room in the front of the boot but I'm going to put my custom insole from my Jacksons in there and see how it goes (I also put them on barefoot). No squishing or numb foot, I walked around the house in them for a bit. They're used but in pretty amazing shape so I don't think they worked for whoever had bought them, haha. I'm gonna try skating on them tomorrow!

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

I hope they work out. If they do, maybe you can sell your old ones.

 

[vesperholly]

My Jacksons have been a tough transition too. They were customs but they're both too tight in the toe area and too loose around the ankle - sometimes I can feel air bubbles "squishing". Also, the arch isn't high enough so if I don't wear an extra insole, it feels super weird because my arch is higher than the sole.

I ended up removing the original insole (which I've actually done on all my skates) and went with a super-thin charcoal "anti smell" liner that I found at my supermarket because it was fabric. My feet slid around on the ones with satiny feel. Plus I added one of those heel and arch liners so I could feel contact with something along the middle of my foot. Perhaps try a thin liner in place of the original? It made a huge difference for me.

My old Klingbeils were heaven - I think that foam molding of the bottom of your foot makes a huge difference for high arches. I wish I could get someone to rebuild them for dance.

 

[treesprite]

My Jacksons have been a tough transition too. They were customs but they're both too tight in the toe area and too loose around the ankle - sometimes I can feel air bubbles "squishing". Also, the arch isn't high enough so if I don't wear an extra insole, it feels super weird because my arch is higher than the sole.

Do you know specifically what made your boots? Raj seemed to have trouble with mine initially because of my high arches, and didn't get the boots even close to right until the fitter sent pictures he took with me standing on a bench (showed the arch height). Finally Raj understood to make the bottom of the skate narrower than the width of the upper last in the forefoot/toebox area. The boot material curves out more where it is attached to the sole, than boots usually are made. My left toebox is an EE, but the outsole sole it is attached to is only an A through the mid foot/arch area, and the heel is a AA. If your customs are still pretty new, it might be worth a discussion with the fitter and the maker.

 

[Lanie]

Do you know specifically what made your boots? Raj seemed to have trouble with mine initially because of my high arches, and didn't get the boots even close to right until the fitter sent pictures he took with me standing on a bench (showed the arch height). Finally Raj understood to make the bottom of the skate narrower than the width of the upper last in the forefoot/toebox area. The boot material curves out more where it is attached to the sole, than boots usually are made. My left toebox is an EE, but the outsole sole it is attached to is only an A through the mid foot/arch area, and the heel is a AA. If your customs are still pretty new, it might be worth a discussion with the fitter and the maker.

I honestly don't remember, it was so long ago.

I've tried out both boots. The 3D seems a bit unstable as if it's too big, but I put the smartfeet or whatever they're called--the insoles I got--in, and it helps a lot. I think the crap blades are the problem as I have Coronation Aces on the other ones. I put thin insoles in the Jacksons and it felt better, but still hurt yet nowhere near "I want to hack my foot off at the ankle" agony, so I dealt with it; it's just no cushioning, really.

I emailed Jackson and they had no advice or assistance for me. I'm on my own I guess. A bit of a bummer. I was thinking I should get in touch with Mark Ladwig again as we chatted at Boston Worlds then again at Nationals this year and he was really concerned about my boot problems (he's a boot tech for Jackson now and a super nice guy). We'd talked on Facebook for a bit about recommendations for me, as well as Mini Lanie who just started skating.

I think the issue is the boot manufacturer didn't take into account the space those custom insoles take up.

I am visiting my mom sometime this summer so maybe I can take a trip to Spteri to bring my old boots and just ask them about it? I love skating so much and I've been dogged by problems since I started up again as a teenager.

ETA I just realized you weren't responding to me, hahaha I'm an idiot I have the same problem - without my insole there's no arch support! Ugh.