Is Michelle Kwan overrated

[kwanette]

Mao landed THREE 3a at the olympics, no less, FOUR if you count Sochi, and multiple times on other competitions, nobody else can say the same, she made history. And she did it without sacrifice her artistry. No mention that THE performance of Sochi was Mao´s LP.

Truth..

 

[travismoncton]

Mao's 2014 LP also had the beautiful artistry you expect of her. Thank goodness she left Tarasova. It is ironic her 2010 LP got so overscored on PCS, but her 2014 LP was really underscored on PCS. She even got lower PCS in the LP than Julia which was crazy, but the scoring was rigged for the Russian girls in Sochi anyway.

 

[Fiero425]

Mao's 2014 LP also had the beautiful artistry you expect of her. Thank goodness she left Tarasova. It is ironic her 2010 LP got so overscored on PCS, but her 2014 LP was really underscored on PCS. She even got lower PCS in the LP than Julia which was crazy, but the scoring was rigged for the Russian girls in Sochi anyway.

Not a fan of Tarasova, but she's a taskmaster who got skaters to new heights each time I can remember! Yagudin and Cohen were highlights IMO even though USFSA bullied Sasha to go American later! The programs developed and performed were classics; esp. from Yagudin who I never cared for! Mishon didn't get the most out of him, but I could see the change the following season after Tarasova took over! Sasha's programs were intense, beautiful, and without peer except the silly mistakes made on the simplest of jumps! It's like Cohen couldn't have 2 clean performances no matter how lovely!

 

[Sparks]

The USFSA did not bully Sasha to leave Tarasova.

 

[RoseAugust]

Wow - quite a thread. Bottom line for me: I really really really miss Michelle Kwan's skating.

 

[Fiero425]

The USFSA did not bully Sasha to leave Tarasova.

Fine, she was convinced! Get over yourself!

 

[Sparks]

No she wasn't. You have no idea what happened.

 

[Simone411]

Not a fan of Tarasova, but she's a taskmaster who got skaters to new heights each time I can remember! Yagudin and Cohen were highlights IMO even though USFSA bullied Sasha to go American later! The programs developed and performed were classics; esp. from Yagudin who I never cared for! Mishon didn't get the most out of him, but I could see the change the following season after Tarasova took over! Sasha's programs were intense, beautiful, and without peer except the silly mistakes made on the simplest of jumps! It's like Cohen couldn't have 2 clean performances no matter how lovely!

It was very rare, but she did have two clean performances twice and one of those clean performances was at the 2004 Marshalls World Skating Challenge. She did that clean long program with Robin Wagner as her coach, and Sasha was not forced to change coaches. She did that on her own.

Here is one of the two times that Sasha had a clean long program.

Sasha Cohen - Swan Lake

Sasha Cohen - K & C

No one forced, convinced or pressured Sasha to change coaches period.

 

[VGThuy]

Sasha and Tarasova had their own creative differences without any outside influence. That relationship broke down. Sasha then moved to Wagner and was preparing for life in New York. Then she wasn't feeling it which is understandable as not every coach-student dynamic is going to work. At the time she said she really missed California and went back to Nicks and her family as it just felt right. I think in the end, she made the right decision. The USFS doesn't care if their skaters had Russian based in the US coaches so long as they have success. Sasha was having a pretty good season with Tarasova and looked poised to win Worlds until the GPF and things broke down between the two.

 

[Fiero425]

No she wasn't. You have no idea what happened.

Like you do?

 

[Sparks]

until the GPF and things broke down between the two.

Yes. I witnessed this first hand, so I guess I do know what happened.
It's always good to have the facts before making allegations.

 

[butyrskafanatic]

Tarasova is a ice and dance and mens coach specialist. Pairs pretty good too. Ladies is not her thing and she should just stay away with it, and top ladies should stay away from her too. Her success (or lack thereof) with Mao, Sasha, and many others should serve as evidence of that. That she honestly believes that not only Sotnikova deserved the OGM in Sochi (which is already bad enough on its own) but that Sotnikova was underscored in PCS in comparision to both Kim and Kostner (yes she actually said that, the evidence is online of her saying this) shows her knowledge on ladies singles skating is non existing.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Yeah Mao's 2009-2010 season LP was plain awful in terms of choreography and packaging and PCS was grossly inflated for it. When you add the mistakes the huge PCS she got for it was even worse. I cant believe there are some clowns arguing she deserved to win the 2010 Olympics, now that is a first. Just when you think you had heard it all, LOL! I would have given the silver to Rochette personally, but I guess the judges were scared of being accused of biased due to home ice and Joannie's Mom dying just before so gave it to Mao.

Who is arguing that?? And it's the same when Yuna almost one the PCS over even Mirai in the 2010 Worlds SP, and still WON the free skate that was also a mess, although less so. As for Vancouver, it's a different program but there are more to program components than choreography. Again, how the judges completely ignored the fact that Yuna did over 30 crossovers in her long program. Why was that component so blown up? And many can and have argued that the judges WERE biased, and that Mirai should've gotten bronze. What a despicable comment!

 

[MAXSwagg]

Tarasova is a ice and dance and mens coach specialist. Pairs pretty good too. Ladies is not her thing and she should just stay away with it, and top ladies should stay away from her too. Her success (or lack thereof) with Mao, Sasha, and many others should serve as evidence of that. That she honestly believes that not only Sotnikova deserved the OGM in Sochi (which is already bad enough on its own) but that Sotnikova was underscored in PCS in comparision to both Kim and Kostner (yes she actually said that, the evidence is online of her saying this) shows her knowledge on ladies singles skating is non existing.

Well, no one said she doesn't say "weird" things. Those comments are some of them. But she did say Kostner should've won the SP (which isn't far from the truth) so there's that.

 

[butyrskafanatic]

Well, no one said she doesn't say "weird" things. Those comments are some of them. But she did say Kostner should've won the SP (which isn't far from the truth) so there's that.

Yeah I do agree with her on that. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in awhile though. Her whole lovefest with Sotnikova for years, the programs she gave Mao, her epic failure at trying to improve Sashas mental approach, sorry just not impressed.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I had the pleasure of seeing Kwan skate live and in person five times (1992 US National Championships, 1994 World Junior Championships, 1994 US National Championships, 1996 World Championships, 2001 World Championships).

Her evolution from a cute jumper to a fully - fledged performer, as well as a focussed competitor, was extraordinary to watch.

In 2001, when the talk was all about Slutskaya winning gold, Michelle came through and skated my favourite Kwan routines. It was breathtaking in that I didn't notice the elements, just the atmosphere she created.

That she nailed a clean qualifying skate with the blade coming loose from her boot, and getting no time to even warm - up, highlighted the determined mind - set US ladies from that era were known for.

 

[shady82]

Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in awhile though.

 

[butyrskafanatic]

I was thrilled with Kwan beating Irina at the 2001 worlds and all her wins over Irina. I hated Irina for ruining Maria's career or rather the corrupt Russian fed with their blatant favortism of overrated sloppy Irina ruining Maria's whole career, so whenever Kwan or anyone else beat Irina it was gleeful and joyous for me. Irina is like the evil one for me. As Kwan was the one who did it the most, I am grateful to her for that, but also for Hughes and Arakawa for preventing the atrocity of Irina as an Olympic skating champion.

 

[muffinplus]

Yeah I do agree with her on that. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in awhile though. Her whole lovefest with Sotnikova for years, the programs she gave Mao, her epic failure at trying to improve Sashas mental approach, sorry just not impressed.

Tarasova says quite a lot of nonsense on Russian tv.

 

[VGThuy]

I was thrilled with Kwan beating Irina at the 2001 worlds and all her wins over Irina. I hated Irina for ruining Maria's career or rather the corrupt Russian fed with their blatant favortism of overrated sloppy Irina ruining Maria's whole career, so whenever Kwan or anyone else beat Irina it was gleeful and joyous for me. Irina is like the evil one for me. As Kwan was the one who did it the most, I am grateful to her for that, but also for Hughes and Arakawa for preventing the atrocity of Irina as an Olympic skating champion.

This reminds me of when Maria Butyrskaya said Kwan should have beaten Irina in SLC. That showed me there was no love lost there.

 

[butyrskafanatic]

Tarasova says quite a lot of nonsense on Russian tv.

And she is so biased to her favorites. Sotnikova, Kovtun, Stepanova & Bukin just to name a few. Kovtun is the worst since while Sotnikova has talent atleast, her ill gotten Oly Gold aside, and those others she likes has talent, Kovtun is a complete nothing, and Tarasova still was a big part of Russian fed holding him up and promoting him for years. How Tarasova deludes herself he was some great hope is beyond me. Perhaps she is starting to go senile in her old age or something.

 

[butyrskafanatic]

This reminds me of when Maria Butyrskaya said Kwan should have beaten Irina in SLC. That showed me there was no love lost there.

Well she is probably right too. Michelle's LP wasnt great, and had a fall and another two footed landing, but it was probably still cleaner and stronger than Irina's which had a lot of unclean and sloppy moments and became pretty messy overall. Still yeah if Irina was her friend, given they are longtime teammates, I highly doubt she says that. There is a lot of bitterness between the two given their history in Russia. It is similar to Suguri vs Arakawa in Japan who are also not chummy in the least.

 

[kwanette]

It was very rare, but she did have two clean performances twice and one of those clean performances was at the 2004 Marshalls World Skating Challenge. She did that clean long program with Robin Wagner as her coach, and Sasha was not forced to change coaches. She did that on her own.

Here is one of the two times that Sasha had a clean long program.

Sasha Cohen - Swan Lake

Sasha Cohen - K & C

No one forced, convinced or pressured Sasha to change coaches period.

I was in Providence for that clean skate....and the celebration when she got off of the ice.

 

[butyrskafanatic]

One funny thing about the Kim vs Kwan arguing in this thread is Kwan and Kim are very good friends. Although I was dissapointed in Kwan as Kims good friend and knowing Kim clearly gave the better performance for not advocating for her friend Kim being robbed in Sochi, instead (although only she knows for sure) probably bowing down to media pressure to downplay the controversy just as Tara and Johnny Weir also did, but that is another topic altogether. It was funny to see Johnny and Tara be quite vocal about the result on the first coverage, then in the delayed evening footage down their comments completely, it is obvious someone told them something in between.

Kwan and Yamaguchi are also good friends, everytime Kristi has a charity event or something of that kind she invites Kwan.

Mao and Yu Na I can atleast see why their fans are always at each other, since Mao and Yu Na are definitely not friends, and there is some tension between them. Not the equivalent of Irina vs Maria but still not a friendly relationship or even friendly rivalry by any means really. I think it would be almost impossible to have a truly friendly rivalry of that magnitude inivolving any combination of South Korea vs Japan vs China given the political climate of that part of the world though. Even in gymnastics there hardly ever is, and that is one of the most cordial international sports. The tensions in the mens team duels between China and Japan are insanely high, and I heard something about the Chinese media said losing to Japan is far worse than not winning.

 

[bardtoob]

Kwan IS overrated.

She only has about 61,000 followers on Instagram, but she has had about 110,000 views for her short choreography sequence today

... I love Michelle Kwan

 

[kosjenka]

No.
She was a beautiful skater. She actually skated and related to music. Her movements were fluid and graceful. She was a class act and a role model.
Yes, her programs became repetitive and maybe even boring in last 3-4 seasons. But she lasted. Unlike her arch rivals.

 

[butyrskafanatic]

But she lasted. Unlike her arch rivals.

Umm Slutskaya. She is 2 years older, medaled at world juniors and world seniors for the first time in the same years (94 and 96), and even outlasted Kwan, winning a world title in 2005 and going into the 2006 Olympics as the favorite. And I hated Irinas skating and her propaganda and favor with the Russian fed particularly at the expense of my Maria, but you have to give her credit for that. Coming back a serious slumps (99) and a serious illness (fall 2003) which would have made nearly everyone else retire makes it even more remarkable she lasted that long.

And while I dont know if you qualify them as arch rivals or not but Butyrskaya and Suguri had super long careers, skating until 30ish as amateurs.

 

[kosjenka]

@butyrskafanatic Sarah Hughes and Tara Lipinski are those who won that one big title that Kwan never managed to. I was thinking of them.

 

[butyrskafanatic]

@butyrskafanatic Sarah Hughes and Tara Lipinski are those who won that one big title that Kwan never managed to. I was thinking of them.

I figured that, I just wanted to clarify it isnt fair to paint that whole group with that brush as there are numerous of Kwan contemporaries who had great longevity as well. Even Cohen decently so, particularly when she tried to comeback for another Olympics at 26. Arakawa came back from skating at the Olympics at 16, not even making her own Olympic team at 20 and being left off the Japanese World team by 1 spot a bunch of times, then winning worlds and Olympics at 23 and 24. Chen skated at the top level through 3 Olympiads despite a myraid of problems at the end. Sokolova lasted a very long time, and kept fighting through being dropped in Russia and politically out of favor but never gave up, and won her world silver and got back to the Games as a possible contender. In fact almost the only ones who didnt were the ones who won the Olympics, probably no coincidence to that. The only skaters of recent times who ever continued after winning at the Games are ones who their federations pushed into it (Witt and Kim) and Kim it was a truly half baked effort, skating only 3 competitions over the last 4 years of her career which the judges probably punished her for (eg- scoring at 2011 worlds and 2014 Olympics).

 

[David21]

And while I dont know if you qualify them as arch rivals or not but Butyrskaya and Suguri had super long careers, skating until 30ish as amateurs.

Maria B. retired as a 29 year old I believe.