I, Tonya

[Vagabond]

When the reality is that when ordinals are mixed, it means the judges disagreed and sometimes the results would surprise even then. I'm so glad that doesn't happen now. It makes the sport appear even more arbitrary to the less knowledgeable but it also gave results that even people in the know couldn't particularly defend.

It still happens. Different judges in the same panel will give the same skater GOE of -2 or +1 for the same element, or a score of 4.75 or 7.50 for the same component.

And, again, the notorious "ordinals flip" at 1993 Nationals appears to be an urban myth. A skater can't flip ordinals under the 6.0 system by being marked higher than every other skater by every single member of the judging panel, so unless some judges placed Kwiatkowski over Kerrigan in the Free Skate, it could not have happened.

 

[aemeraldrainc]

So apparently Tonya didn't know who Sharon Stone was?
https://youtu.be/ymRdvt57e-E

 

[skatesindreams]

Allison Janney is scheduled to appear on "The Talk", tomorrow.

 

[Inessence]

So apparently Tonya didn't know who Sharon Stone was?
https://youtu.be/ymRdvt57e-E

This literally made my entire day.

 

[Anita18]

I do take your point and agree that Janney didn't portray a lot of shades of grey, but don't agree that she was just a cold, nasty mom.

Her exhaustion and unhappiness were palpable, the constant smoking was a reflection of her stress, and ending up on oxygen was a summary of the tragedy that was her life.

I think Janney's performance was brilliant and inspired. She did not inspire sympathy or empathy IMO and played the character 'hard'. But she did give viewers an understanding of her reality.

I don't think the script actually gives her the room to express a lot of nuance, as Stan was able to do with Gillooly.

The one moment where she could do that, I thought was brilliant. It's when she's watching Tonya compete on TV.

Spoiler

Her boss at the diner berates her for standing in front of the TV in the middle of her shift, and she goes, "I just have to see her face when she finishes!" And when Tonya does finish her program, the camera focuses in on LaVona's face, and the slight twinge of satisfaction she has.

You feel that she lives for that moment. That everything she's sacrificed for, even Tonya's hatred, was worth it, just for that.

It brought chills down my spine, because I have friends who grew up with parents like that. Who didn't care if their child loved them if the child was "successful." They didn't care. The child's success was an extension of the parent's success.

 

[BaileyCatts]

Someone wondered what Nancy Grace would have to say about Tonya today?

https://www.aol.com/article/enterta...y-weinstein-controversies-exclusive/23334681/

 

[LarrySK8]

According to NBC, they "were getting a bogus readout on [their] computer." So I don't think the results actually flipped that way.

1993 U.S. Nationals Ladies Free Skate, Final Five

Tonia Harding-Gillooly (2nd after Technical Program)
5.3 5.7 5.5 5.5 5.6 5.5 5.4 5.6 5.4
5.5 5.6 5.5 5.6 5.5 5.5 5.4 5.5 5.6

Nicole Bobek (3rd after Technical Program)
5.2 5.5 5.3 5.7 5.5 5.6 5.3 5.7 5.3
5.4 5.5 5.6 5.6 5.6 5.6 5.3 5.8 5.6

Tonia Kwiatkowski (4th after Technical Program
Scores not included in the video

Lisa Ervin (5th after Technical Program)
5.3 5.7 5.5 5.6 5.6 5.7 5.6 5.5 5.7
5.4 5.8 5.7 5.6 5.7 5.7 5.5 5.6 5.7

Nancy Kerrigan (1st after Technical Program)
5.6 5.8 5.6 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.8 5.6
5.8 5.9 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.9 5.9

I searched my ancient tapes and found the ABC Wide World of Sports broadcast of 93 Nationals, the Nationals that invented the "Chacked" concept. They CHACKED Kwiatkowski's technical mark for a commercial. Al Michaels reported technical marks of 5.1 - 5.7. The "Composition and Style" were

5.6 5.7 5.4 5.5 5.7 5.4 5.5 5.7 5.5 We may never solve the ordinal riddle!

 

[HSCluv]

No way should Tonya have been left off the world team. She probably should have gotten Bronze in 92 Olympics in my opinion as well.

 

[Inessence]

No way should Tonya have been left off the world team. She probably should have gotten Bronze in 92 Olympics in my opinion as well.

I believe The Oregonian newspaper may have outed Tonya for smoking around this time. Not sure if that had anything to do with it but I doubt it helped much.

 

[Karen-W]

I searched my ancient tapes and found the ABC Wide World of Sports broadcast of 93 Nationals, the Nationals that invented the "Chacked" concept. They CHACKED Kwiatkowski's technical mark for a commercial. Al Michaels reported technical marks of 5.1 - 5.7. The "Composition and Style" were

5.6 5.7 5.4 5.5 5.7 5.4 5.5 5.7 5.5 We may never solve the ordinal riddle!

Even with just the 2nd marks and the range of the 1st marks, it's pretty certain, knowing Nancy's scores that Kwiatkowski didn't have any 1st place ordinals over Nancy. As far as the ordinal mystery of 2nd-4th between Ervin, Kwiatkowski and Harding... you are right, we may never know!

 

[Aussie Willy]

So apparently Tonya didn't know who Sharon Stone was?
https://youtu.be/ymRdvt57e-E

That is quite cute about "that nice lady" Sharon Stone.

 

[cmk]

I believe The Oregonian newspaper may have outed Tonya for smoking around this time. Not sure if that had anything to do with it but I doubt it helped much.

Tonya was not the only skater that smoked. Nicole smoked as well.

 

[MacMadame]

And USFS just lurved Nicole and gave her every break. [sarcasm]

 

[Aussie Willy]

Tonya was not the only skater that smoked. Nicole smoked as well.

Not to mention probably most Russian skaters.

 

[ks777]

Tonya was not the only skater that smoked. Nicole smoked as well.

What were they smoking? crack or pot?

 

[Inessence]

Tonya was not the only skater that smoked. Nicole smoked as well.

But is she a lifelong asthmatic? Tonya’s self-destructive way of saying FU to it (asthma) I suppose.

 

[Inessence]

That is quite cute about "that nice lady" Sharon Stone.

TBH I saw the clip earlier and didn’t recognize Sharon Stone either. Just assumed she was a Red Capet assistant that rescues the attendees from the media and keeps the line moving.

 

[cmk]

What were they smoking? crack or pot?

Neither. They were smoking legal cigarettes. Nicole didn't try meth until in her 30's after her skating career was basically over.

 

[Yazmeen]

But is she a lifelong asthmatic? Tonya’s self-destructive way of saying FU to it (asthma) I suppose.

As a fellow asthmatic, the thing that always got me was Tonya's constant use of a blast (urgent relief) inhaler, which basically means her asthma was not under control. If you have to keep using that inhaler often, you need to be on maintenance meds or have your maintenance meds changed. The idea is to keep your asthma under control so that you only have to break that urgent inhaler out rarely. Not to mention that you usually have to wait a few minutes after using the blast device before it takes full effect. When she hit it just before going out for her Olympic free skate in 94, the early effect was an elevated heart rate, not so much clearing her airways.

And I'm enough of a cynic to wonder if she needed it at all then or if that was a ploy to get sympathy from the judges or the public (or another excuse to pull up early out of the skate if her lace held and she still didn't skate well). Yes, that sounds nasty, but it wouldn't have surprised me at all.

 

[gkelly]

Exercise-induced asthma is quite common among skaters:

http://journal.chestnet.org/article/S0012-3692(15)45652-1/pdf

 

[Vagabond]

I searched my ancient tapes and found the ABC Wide World of Sports broadcast of 93 Nationals, the Nationals that invented the "Chacked" concept. They CHACKED Kwiatkowski's technical mark for a commercial. Al Michaels reported technical marks of 5.1 - 5.7. The "Composition and Style" were

5.6 5.7 5.4 5.5 5.7 5.4 5.5 5.7 5.5 We may never solve the ordinal riddle!

We know enough. Kerrigan's technical marks ranged from 5.6 to 5.8; and her artistic marks ranged from 5.8 to 5.9. To be placed first by any of the judges giving Kerrigan a 5.6 or a 5.7 for the first mark, Kwiatkowski would have had to have received marks of 5.9 or higher (even 6.1!). Plainly, she did not. There was no "ordinal flip."

 

[Yazmeen]

Another interesting article on the movie and Tonya - and go beyond the title:

https://deadspin.com/how-much-sympathy-does-tonya-harding-deserve-1822095036

 

[bardtoob]

I heard Tonya smoked because it reduced her appetite when she was trying to drop weight fast, which is better than being turned into a sufferer of anorexia nervosa ... Didn't Nancy say Evy always wanted her at 100LB even though she jumped better at 105LB ... That's not messed

Nicole was boy-psycho and drank like that peaked in high school popular girl.

 

[Inessence]

I missed this interview back in the day, must have been just prior to the hubcapping. https://youtu.be/7LUq6jfXZP8

ETA: Tonya actually apologizes to Connie Chung (via Maury Poivch) for walking out of that interview.

 

[Yazmeen]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...ya-harding-nancy-kerrigan-20180118-story.html

 

[Yazmeen]

Some other articles: more coming in now that the movie's in general release and after Tonya's appearance at the Globes and her break with her manager:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/...-reporter-full-circle-with-tonya-harding.html

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/twoce...-before-watching-the-new-tonya-harding-movie/

And Shane Stant is back also:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-attacker-explains-plotting-attack-clip.html

 

[Sylvia]

Some other articles: more coming in now that the movie's in general release and after Tonya's appearance at the Globes and her break with her manager:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/...-reporter-full-circle-with-tonya-harding.html

This is by Jeré Longman -- an excerpt:

In 1993, I came to The Times myself from The Philadelphia Inquirer and have now covered figure skating, off and on, for a quarter century. There is no sport more fun to write about in an Olympic year. Skating is full of creative people, individuals who are not muzzled by the team ethos. At the same time, their careers are held in constant judgment by others. Somehow this eternal tension between the objective and the subjective is liberating instead of stifling.
...
Today, interest in skating is greatly diminished, except in Japan, where it thrives. At the Winter Olympics, at least we should get to see the sublime strangeness of North Koreans skating to the Beatles. In the United States, though, the only buzz about women’s skating comes from the movies, not the rink, in the form of a mockumentary, “I, Tonya,” about the 1994 knee-whacking of Nancy Kerrigan by associates of Harding.

 

[casken]

And Shane Stant is back also:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-attacker-explains-plotting-attack-clip.html

Interesting article. It's about his younger sister making a documentary about being related to someone who is viewed by society as a villain.

At the time of the attack, Maile, who is 20 years younger than Shane, says she didn't really understand what her brother had done, saying: 'There were always knee jokes in our family but I didn't really get it.

 

[meggonzo]

Is Tonya still going to be skating on the Today show Friday morning? Or did that get cancelled when Rosenberg terminated their relationship?

 

[Inessence]

Shane Stant (The Hitman) talks to Inside Edition: http://www.insideedition.com/shane-...gizes-and-says-hes-now-different-person-39938