Lawsuits against USA Gymnastics, Larry Nassar, etc. - news & updates

Willin

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As for MSU, it hasn't been getting a lot of attention nationally, but the student newspaper (The State News) has had a whole investigative journalism section devoted to updates and investigative journalism about the situation at MSU since the story broke. It seems every week, even when there's no new National news, they've posted something new about the story. Many alumni are also highly displeased and decreased donations or written angry letters to administration.

It sounds like the biggest problem was that this wasn't reported up the chain. Despite the accusations beginning in 1997, the article says that the man at the top of the chain had no idea any accusations occurred until 2014 - it sounds like Nassar's friend also played a role in hiding his abuse from them by removing documents from his office. Once he found it, it sounds like appropriate actions were taken initially (until the guy at the top of the chain ignored the whole police-investigation thing and went off an incompetent Title IX office's word). It sounds that even after reinstating him(which was an obvious glaring mistake), MSU instituted sanctions - which again, no one reported violations of to them.
Part of not going up the chain seems to be an issue with power differential, but even moreso with Michigan reporting laws - where pretty much none of the people in the athletic department are required to report. I think that's the biggest takeaway from the MSU thing - a little incompetence her and a little lack of concern there goes a long way to creating an awful situation. Also that failure to report or take action should be a fire-able offense. Also that for such a serious issue there should be no second chances, even if you like the person.

I think there's three angles to the MSU side of things within that issue of reporting and investigating:
1. The Title IX office. It's been involved in a National Investigation involving Title IX departments at many major universities for not investigating or properly handling claims of abuse both inside and outside of athletic departments at the school. Because of that, I don't think this was MSU ignoring Nassar in particular, but rather because the Title IX office is incredibly incompetent for whatever reason. (Understaffing, high case load, focus on cases involving wealthy staff/kids of wealthy donors, lack of adequate victim advocates, etc.) I doubt the issue even got passed to the University Administration. Either way, it's an issue - one I hope will be corrected after the full, in-depth Title IX investigation is complete.
Personally, I don't think this is an MSU problem - many of my friends at universities all of the country big and small, private and public, community college and Top-10 institution found themselves ignored when they had a complaint. In fact, attending grad school at a smaller private school, me, at least four other students, and one tenured professor found ourselves blamed and talked down to when we all separately reported separate incidents of very concerning behavior from a single male classmate.

2. Athletic Department Administration may have known. Who knows if they actually did - it seems like the coach of MSU's gymnastics program was entirely complicit and even after the child porn was found she refused to acknowledge his abuse or its affects, so I doubt she'd report it. I'd bet her coaching staff had a similar mindset. As for the athletic trainers not reporting - while scummy, technically they didn't do anything wrong.
It should also be noted that gymnastics is one of those sports MSU only has because it's a B1G sport - I always got the feeling that they'd much rather have Women's Hockey in that women's varsity sport spot, but that's not a B1G sport. (I've heard it's next in line for varsity status) I knew a former member of the team and a tutor for it, and it sounded like the the higher ups in the athletic department didn't care much as long as they were competing. I'd assume with Nassar the higher-ups saw that he was a doctor for USA Gymnastics (a good position) and said "okay" without much of a second thought. With abuse allegations (if they even heard them from the Athletic Trainers or Coaches), I bet it was another case of them putting it on the back burner because it is a back burner sport for the school while he was respected at the time. Even with the USA Gymnastics investigation in 2015, while the documents were hidden from them, they should've sought it out. I doubt if Gymnastics was a higher priority that they wouldn't have been constantly checking on the staff.
Which, I think, is another problem that is not an MSU problem - those sports that the athletic department cares least about are the most likely to have abusers in them, which is why the athletic department should care even more about auditing them for creeps. I also think that regardless of state law, MSU should've made reporting mandatory for all athletic department staff and given them someone easily available to report to (maybe a Title IX liaison or someone at the MSU Police Department) that was not their direct superior or someone else who could make/break their career.

3. The medical administration knew - well they found out very late, but they still gave him the benefit of the doubt. Which should not happen. Maybe they did think he was cleared initially, but they should've waited until the more rigorous police investigation cleared him until reinstating him. And then if the police investigation could not clear him, they should have fired him, even if the police didn't have enough evidence to prosecute. And certainly the man at the top of the chain shouldn't have supported him when more accusations came out in 2016. That man at the top should've been fired as well instead of being allowed to take a quiet medical leave.

Most hospitals and medical offices do, but several clinical areas are exceptions. One is ob-gyn. Psychiatry also, plus emergency, depending on circumstances. But yes, since Nasser's treatments weren't considered privacy-sensitive, a parent should have been there. But much of the abuse occurred at the training camps, which parents weren't allowed to attend. And I remember reading some accounts of his victims that a parent was actually in the room but was seated so his back was facing them and they couldn't see what he was doing.

I've heard that many male medical professionals refuse to be in the room with female patients alone for anything more than a quick visit. Many male RNs will actually ask female colleagues to do certain things like catheter insertion on female patients or will ask to switch assignments if female patients are uncomfortable having a male nurse. I've also seen that some patient charts will note the patient prefers not to have a nurse of either gender so that they are not given a nurse of that gender unless it's impossible to meet that request for staffing reasons. This is especially true for children - when I did my peds rotation, nurses of both sexes were always very careful if a parent wasn't around.

How much are we willing to bet that parents not being allowed is one of the main reasons this and other alleged instances of physical abuse at the training camps have been allowed to go on so long? There could at the very least be someone outside of USA Gymnastics supervising - for instance, how USFSA and other sports hold training camps at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado were independent experts (PTs, Athletic Trainers, Doctors, etc.) oversee the activities of the athletes, not the governing body of the sport.
 

barbk

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I could not agree more with Nancy Armour: None of the gymnasts should be required to ever train at the Karolyi Ranch again:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-karolyi-ranch-usa-gymnastics-per/1035996001/


“It is impossibly difficult to relive these experiences and it breaks my heart even more to think that as I work towards my dream of competing in Tokyo 2020, I will have to continually return to the same training facility where I was abused,” Biles said in her posts on Instagram and Twitter.
 

Debbie S

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Personally, I don't think this is an MSU problem
No, unfortunately, it's not. If someone (a professor, coach, etc) is prestigious, a big-name, brings recognition to the school, inappropriate behavior is rarely reported and if so, there are plenty of people to make excuses and look the other way. At my college, there was a harassment complaint filed against a professor who was up for tenure. If you guessed that he got tenure and the complaint went nowhere, you're right. Another professor (who is now deceased so I guess I shouldn't speak ill of the dead) was known to be a little too friendly with some students (he'd take students out to dinner or they'd spend time talking to him in his office with the door closed) and would make inappropriate comments to students about their appearance and such. There were rumors flying around of inappropriate behavior, some of which were so :eek: that they probably were just that, rumors...but this professor was very well-respected and had a following, so there was no way anyone was going to say anything. This was 25 years ago but, unfortunately, I don't think the attitude on college campuses has changed much.

If anything good comes out of this, it's that MSU will be forced/shamed to put more stringent reporting guidelines and procedures in place, and hopefully (?) other schools will follow suit. My understanding was that all faculty and staff are required to report abuse and harassment allegations but maybe that varies depending on the state.
 

ChiquitaBanana

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Starting over is the only option. If what I read was correct, MSU and USAG called the pervert in and gave him an opportunity to “explain himself”, then accepted his explanation related to a little known procedure that had been used for injuries to the coccyx.

These people are so dumb that just accepted what the pervert said. They didn’t question glove use, nor did they call in another doctor to review standard of care. The AMA explicitly warns docs to always offer to have another person present for any vaginal procedure. When is the last time you had a pap without being asked if you wanted a nurse present? Not a single person of power at USAG thought it was odd, or squicky, or a potential situation requiring parental approval? IDIOTS!

The technique does not involve fingers in one's vagina, but in the rectum, as the coccyx lies just behind. So there is no way he could have justified his ugly dirty fingers in there... That makes me sick...
 

Willin

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@Debbie S It's explained in the article - in Michigan no athletic staff are mandated reporters by the law, though in other states this is the case. For some sports, like figure skating, all coaches are expected to report no matter what state they're in.

I agree that it's still a prevalent problem. As I said in my case, it was a classmate who was accused independently by various students, one professor, and with text message evidence and yet nothing (we suspected $$$ from his family was involved). Several more students with more text messages came forward after those of us who reported discussed our displeasure with his lack of punishment and still nothing. Two other grad students I know switched advisers because their tenured professor adviser was incredibly creepy with them. Heck, my sister complains that her adviser says mildly sexist things and all I could do was laugh - if the worst thing your male adviser does to you as a female student is say mildly sexist things, you're frankly quite lucky. And I think that says something about what the state of academia is in regards to the gender balance.
 

Willin

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@misskarne School administrators and teachers are mandatory reporters, but coaches and athletic trainers don't fall under those categories. The article discusses that lawyers could try to argue that Coaches are Teachers, but I don't know if that will work because coaches don't have a teaching position at the university - that is, they do not teach classes and are hired outside of the academic system.

I suppose it seems weird to people outside the US, but at huge universities the athletic department and academic pursuits are largely separate up until the very top of the food chain. Note the lack of overlap:
(Very) basically for athletics the hierarchy goes like this: University Admin (Board) > Head of Athletic Department > Coaches > Assistant Coaches/Doctors > Athletic Trainers/Assistants/Other Staff > Athletes/Athletic Department Tutors
(Very) basically for academics the hierarchy goes like this: University Admin > College Deans > College Admin > Department Heads > Tenure-Track Professors > Adjunct Faculty > Grad (PhD/MS) Students (>) Grad Students (MD/MBA/MSN/PT/OT/other professional degree) > Undergrad tutors/lab assistants (>) Undergrad students

Most funding for the athletic department comes from athletic department revenue (mainly football/basketball/school merchandise). That money is then distributed to all the sports based on the budget the sport needs. Hiring decisions are, for the most part, at the discretion of the department. University Administration has the authority to approve/disapprove all athletic department hires, but typically don't have time or desire to get involved - they just hire someone they trust to run the athletic side of things to do that for them. That person they trust hires coaches who in turn help hire support staff for the team (assistant coaches, team assistants). The athletic department hires its own pool of athletic trainers, physical therapists, sports medicine professionals, and tutors to help the athletes outside of team practices. Because of this, unless there's a concern that the athletic department's hierarchy can't handle alone, University Administration never hears about an issue.
 

clairecloutier

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Excerpt from an Aly Raisman interview:
https://twitter.com/OTLonESPN/status/953329703980544000

Amid the ugliness of this scandal, Aly Raisman's courage in continuing to speak up on Twitter and in the press stands out. Of course, ALL the victims who have spoken are very courageous and deserve admiration.

But USAG should've known better than to screw with Raisman.... She's a natural leader. Always has been within the team itself, and now, on this matter. She may do as much damage to them as anyone. Not that it isn't well-deserved.
 

barbk

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Excerpt from an Aly Raisman interview:
https://twitter.com/OTLonESPN/status/953329703980544000

Amid the ugliness of this scandal, Aly Raisman's courage in continuing to speak up on Twitter and in the press stands out. Of course, ALL the victims who have spoken are very courageous and deserve admiration.

But USAG should've known better than to screw with Raisman.... She's a natural leader. Always has been within the team itself, and now, on this matter. She may do as much damage to them as anyone. Not that it isn't well-deserved.

Well, I think they're going to get a hard lesson in reality. And a well-deserved one.
 

annie720

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Erin

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One thing that is really coming to light in the last couple of weeks are the failures of law enforcement throughout this process as well. I mentioned how long the FBI took to talk to Maggie in a previous post. The FBI didn't talk to Aly until September 2016, conveniently shortly after the Indy Star published Rachael Denhollander and (then anonymous) Jamie Dantzscher's accounts. And then somehow Steve Penny knew about her FBI interview, which is ridiculous. It's good that Aly stood up to him to say that she didn't want him in the interview, but he should have never known about it in the first place.

Even worse, in her statement yesterday, Brianne Randall talked about how she went to the police back in 2004 and the police dismissed her complaint, saying that what Nassar did was a medical procedure. Sadly, this kind of stuff happens all too often in sexual assault cases, where victims are not believed. So much could have been prevented if the police had believed Brianne.

I see so many uneducated twitter comments asking people like Aly (and others) why she didn't "go to the police" and the thing is, (a) she didn't initially know she was being abused (b) when she did realize, she thought the matter was being handled by the police and (c) even if she had "gone to the police", it seems like the evidence is there that it wouldn't have even helped.
 

el henry

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@misskarne School administrators and teachers are mandatory reporters, but coaches and athletic trainers don't fall under those categories. The article discusses that lawyers could try to argue that Coaches are Teachers, but I don't know if that will work because coaches don't have a teaching position at the university - that is, they do not teach classes and are hired outside of the academic system.

I suppose it seems weird to people outside the US, but at huge universities the athletic department and academic pursuits are largely separate up until the very top of the food chain. Note the lack of overlap:
(Very) basically for athletics the hierarchy goes like this: University Admin (Board) > Head of Athletic Department > Coaches > Assistant Coaches/Doctors > Athletic Trainers/Assistants/Other Staff > Athletes/Athletic Department Tutors
(Very) basically for academics the hierarchy goes like this: University Admin > College Deans > College Admin > Department Heads > Tenure-Track Professors > Adjunct Faculty > Grad (PhD/MS) Students (>) Grad Students (MD/MBA/MSN/PT/OT/other professional degree) > Undergrad tutors/lab assistants (>) Undergrad students

Most funding for the athletic department comes from athletic department revenue (mainly football/basketball/school merchandise). That money is then distributed to all the sports based on the budget the sport needs. Hiring decisions are, for the most part, at the discretion of the department. University Administration has the authority to approve/disapprove all athletic department hires, but typically don't have time or desire to get involved - they just hire someone they trust to run the athletic side of things to do that for them. That person they trust hires coaches who in turn help hire support staff for the team (assistant coaches, team assistants). The athletic department hires its own pool of athletic trainers, physical therapists, sports medicine professionals, and tutors to help the athletes outside of team practices. Because of this, unless there's a concern that the athletic department's hierarchy can't handle alone, University Administration never hears about an issue.

And when it goes wrong, it goes very wrong.

Pennsylvania has probably the most expansive "mandatory reporter" laws in the country. (not that I know every state, but I know Pennsylvania's). Coaches, team doctors, trainers, all would be mandatory reporters.

Why? Jerry Sandusky. A scandal of US gymnastics proportions (to the media here). The Pennsylvania Child Protection Law was amended to widely expand mandatory reporting thanks to Jerry. And universities and colleges in Pennsylvania would now maintain this chain of command at their peril.
 

Willin

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@el henry It's awful how often it goes wrong as well. MSU's hardly the only school facing problems for not overseeing it's athletic department hires right now. I think that's one of the big takeaways other than reporting being severely lacking.

Penn State's case was obviously egregious, but the case at Baylor is just plain awful as well. Baylor hired people that knowingly and willingly let domestic abusers and rapists play for their football team, and then when the athletic department staff covered for the players, the school administration was awful enough to cover for them and punish the victims!
And then there's the scandal not related to sexual assault - athletic departments hiring "athletic trainers" and "conditioning staff" that have no actual training or credentials in that field, leading the athletes to be harmed. I'm willing to bet that USA Gymnastics has plenty of those at the ranch as well, or at least coaches not properly trained in injury prevention and care. If they were they wouldn't push injured athletes to continue training as hard as they do.
 

Debbie S

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@Debbie S It's explained in the article - in Michigan no athletic staff are mandated reporters by the law, though in other states this is the case.
Yes, I saw that. I'm in MD, and I previously worked at a university, and all staff had to have 'sexual harassment and assault training', which consisted of watching a PowerPoint presentation and then taking a quiz at the end. I thought it said all university staff were obligated to report harassment and assault cases, and yes, it was the Title IX office/officer who was to receive the complaints and investigate. I believe this was shortly after the Dept of Ed named our university (along with many others) as not compliant or needing to improve in its investigation/handling of assault cases.

Even if the MSU coaches were required to report abuse, it's not clear if they even would have. So many failures, so much indifference, on so many levels. It's sickening.
 

Aceon6

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I don’t know if this will hit the front pages, but the scum wrote the judge a letter saying that the victim statements were mentally cruel to him and were a media circus. Judge ain’t having none o dat and statements continued today. They may need a 4th day as more victims have requested to be heard.
 

Debbie S

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I hope McKayla will be one of them. She can give him a Level 10 death stare as she reads her statement.

They should record the statements on video and force him to watch on an endless loop in his cell. Although that would be too kind.
 

Sarah

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https://twitter.com/USAGym/status/954088404823756801

USA Gymnastics‏Verified account @USAGym
Please attribute to Kerry Perry, president and CEO “USA Gymnastics has terminated its agreement with the Karolyi Ranch in Huntsville, Texas. It will no longer serve as the USA Gymnastics National Team Training Center..."

Edited to add: Next week's training camp has been cancelled as well. A step in the right direction as the athletes should NEVER be asked to return to the ranch. But, more people at USA Gymnastics need to step down...
 

Sarah

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Yeah. They could have easily done it then. It's sort of a "we've gotten bad press so let's do something about it" kind of thing... Still, it needed to happen. Well, one of a million things that need to happen. But starting a new organization would work for me too.
 

Erin

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I hope McKayla will be one of them. She can give him a Level 10 death stare as she reads her statement.

McKayla had a written statement (it sounds like it was the same letter that she wrote for the child porn sentencing in December) that was read by a prosecutor, so she had her say, but unfortunately no death stare.

Well, bless their hearts........they’ve wanted to do this since DECEMBER!?

To be fair to Kerry Perry (which is who the statement is attributed to), she said that SHE had wanted to do it since December, which is when she started. Which may mean that the rest of USAG weren't going to bother moving it at all? Or maybe they also wanted to move it, but it wasn't as big of a priority. Regardless, I have no doubt that this happened way faster than it otherwise would have thanks to Simone's statement and the media attention from Nancy Armour at USA Today and also Juliet Macur at the NYT, so great job by Simone for raising it and thanks to the media for keeping this going. Anyway, this is two good things that Perry has done in three days, so it's another (small) step in the right direction. I'll take it.

I don’t know if this will hit the front pages, but the scum wrote the judge a letter saying that the victim statements were mentally cruel to him and were a media circus. Judge ain’t having none o dat and statements continued today. They may need a 4th day as more victims have requested to be heard.

It's hit a lot of media that I've seen, although my twitter feed is full of gymnastics so I'm not sure if it's mainstream or not. The nerve of that man continues to amaze me. But Judge Aquilina put him in his place. It's funny because I think this is the same judge that people had concerns with due to a conflict of interest (she is an adjunct at MSU) but she has proven to be awesome and not just because of this smackdown. She has expressed a lot of individual concern for each victim.
 
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Debbie S

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Are the Karolyis still around, i.e. in the U.S.? I thought I read somewhere they left the country to avoid answering investigators' questions.
 

Willin

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In MSU news, the student newspaper has called for the president of MSU to resign.

Personally, based on this article, it sounds like President Simon was at the mercy of what others chose to tell her. It sounds like even when she was notified, she wasn't told the name of the accused, and because the "investigation" turned up nothing, per protocol she wasn't notified further. Because of that, I don't think she should be fired.
On the other hand, those that knew and didn't do more should definitely be fired. This includes the athletic trainer who said she'd report and never did - yet is somehow still employed and the Title IX staff who did a woefully inadequate investigation of the circumstances surrounding the accusation. I would say they should fire everyone else involved in not reporting the accusations, but most have already resigned.
They should also review policy about how sexual assault investigations are handled and what staff reporting policy should be. Personally I think all staff that don't report should be fired regardless of state law.

I don’t know if this will hit the front pages, but the scum wrote the judge a letter saying that the victim statements were mentally cruel to him and were a media circus. Judge ain’t having none o dat and statements continued today. They may need a 4th day as more victims have requested to be heard.
One wonders if he's too stupid or heartless to realize that he put more suffering on those girls than their statements could ever want to put onto him. And if he didn't want to hear their statements, then maybe he shouldn't have abused them in the first place! What an arrogant scumbag!

I think the worst part is that he had plenty of opportunity to stop abusing victims and he knew people were on his trail, but he never changed. Even though the inadequate 2014 MSU investigation found him innocent, they told him that he should ensure there was another person in the room observing his work, yet he didn't follow that. As far back as 1997 people in the athletic department notified him that he was under suspicion and yet he didn't change jobs or behavior. Did he think he'd never get caught?

Go, judge, go! You tell that scumbag about how awful he is.:cheer2::cheer2::cheer2: (Personally I would've liked to have heard the Judge Judy smackdown of Nassar's complaint, but this was still good)

Are the Karolyis still around, i.e. in the U.S.? I thought I read somewhere they left the country to avoid answering investigators' questions.
Who knows, but if they haven't left they're sure to be in a lot of trouble. It seems they covered for Nassar, and it's well within reason that they've covered up abuse from other coaches and staff - including Mr. Karolyi himself. They have a lot to answer for.
 

Sylvia

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'You are Pure Evil' [Jamie Dantzscher]: Victim Impact Statements Continue In Day 3 of Larry Nassar Sentencing: https://www.si.com/olympics/2018/01...e-stories-mckayla-maroney-statement-day-three
Judge Rosemarie Aquilina is presiding over the hearing. On Thursday, she informed the courtroom that Nassar said he does not know whether he can face witnesses and the impact statements anymore. Nassar submitted a six-page, single-spaced letter to her. He described the victim statements as a four-day "media circus."
"I do not know why you are complaining now," Aquilina told Nassar.
Nassar said that his letter was a "cry for community mental health."
 

Karina1974

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I don’t know if this will hit the front pages, but the scum wrote the judge a letter saying that the victim statements were mentally cruel to him and were a media circus. Judge ain’t having none o dat and statements continued today. They may need a 4th day as more victims have requested to be heard.

That POS has no idea what it's like being on the OTHER side of this equation.:angryfire:angryfire:angryfire:angryfire:angryfire
 

Lacey

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The Karolyis should most definitely be held accountable. On US TV National News tonight, they were pictured at the ranch with the story that it is being shut down, but it wasn't noted if the picture was current, if they are still there.

Also, a new governing body should be mandated.

Some kind of fund for life long counseling for these girls is necessary.
 

Debbie S

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Maggie is a remarkable young woman.
I wonder, given the timing of everything, if Maggie coming forward and reporting the abuse is a reason she was left off the Rio team, after being on the World champ team the year before. I know she had an injury, and of course Laurie Hernandez had an amazing first season in Senior, but if Maggie's whistle-blowing affected her standing with the Karolyis and USAG, then I would vote for her getting an automatic spot in Tokyo. Although she's probably having much more fun in NCAAs than she did in elite.
 
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