Has USFSA flat out ever told a skater to retire?

[tylersf]

I know the judges may score a skater to "give them the message" to hang up their skates. There is the perception that it's been done to Mirai and Adam, but they persevered and made the 2018 US Olympic team.

Has the USFSA ever told a skater, "Hang up your skates. You're past your prime. Even if you win Nationals, any Grand Prix events or even the Grand Prix Final, we will still keep you off the Worlds and/or Olympic team."

 

[bardtoob]

When Tonya Harding was banned

... But, really, this is an interesting question.

 

[Marco]

Not just the way they score a skater, but sometimes also the way the assignments are given / not given are in themselves a message.

 

[slipchuk]

I think Amber Corwin was given this message for years. She kept fighting on though until finally retiring due to age. In 2003 when she skated a clean short with a triple-triple and was placed behind someone like McDonough falling on a double axel in her short, that was a message. Then in 2006 when she was given comically low PCS in one program, even for an awkward and inelegant skater like herself. In 2001 or 2002 when she skated perfectly and still couldnt beat Andrea Gardiner for something like 7th place.

 

[Marco]

I think Amber Corwin was given this message for years. She kept fighting on though until finally retiring due to age. In 2003 when she skated a clean short with a triple-triple and was placed behind someone like McDonough falling on a double axel in her short, that was a message. Then in 2006 when she was given comically low PCS in one program, even for an awkward and inelegant skater like herself. In 2001 or 2002 when she skated perfectly and still couldnt beat Andrea Gardiner for something like 7th place.

Well she had her own technical issues and would have no chance under IJS. I am glad she at least medaled at 4CCs twice (gold and bronze) when it was still a B event and under 6.0. Some US champions like Rachael Flatt or Alissa Czisny or even Gracie Gold never even won a senior international championship medal.

 

[aliceanne]

I think skaters sometimes get unsolicited advice from "well-meaning" judges and officials, but I don't see how USFSA could tell someone to retire. If you've passed the tests and pay your money they can't stop you from competing. Rudy Galindo managed to win a national championship with little support from USFSA. I'm sure he was advised to retire many times.

 

[eurodance2001]

I remember reading in Christine Brennan's book about how Tina Noyes thought she could possibly win a National title in 1969 after Peggy retired but she was placed not first, or second, but third. She said "the message was clear".. I wonder how Janet, Julie-Lynn and Tina performed at those Nationals and if that decision was justified (especially with Janet always struggling with figures). This doesn't really fall into what the OP asked about clearly told to retire but I'm curious nonetheless..

 

[Vagabond]

I think skaters sometimes get unsolicited advice from "well-meaning" judges and officials, but I don't see how USFSA could tell someone to retire.

Spoiler: An Example of "How." Not for the Faint-Hearted.

I have no reason to believe that this actually happened, but here's how:

Dear Mr. Zivanovic:

Enclosed please find your official certificate for finishing fifth at Nationals. Have you ever considered skating for Yugoslavia?

Yours truly,

The USFSA.

 

[giselle23]

Well she had her own technical issues and would have no chance under IJS. I am glad she at least medaled at 4CCs twice (gold and bronze) when it was still a B event and under 6.0. Some US champions like Rachael Flatt or Alissa Czisny or even Gracie Gold never even won a senior international championship medal.

Alissa Czisny won the Grand Prix Final in 2010. Does that count?

 

[Jot the Dot Dot]

I heard that they told Tonya Harding to retire, and in response she told them to "Go Forth And Multiply". Or, words to that effect.........

 

[GreatLakesGal]

Remember what Adam said a few years ago? TPTB just "fade you out" when they want to get rid of you. Good for him for fighting back and making the Olympic Team!

 

[Seerek]

Maybe Inoue/Baldwin by 2010?
Rachel Flatt post 2011.
Michael Weiss post 2004.

 

[MIsty Blades/Skate Mom]

He was such a hot piece of ass back in the day. I used to envy his wife.

Michael Weiss post 2004.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Ashley Wagner 2018.

with those PCS? Loud and clear.

 

[triple]

Kimmie Meissner?

 

[skatingguy]

Kimmie Meissner?

I thought she retired because of injury issues - hip?

 

[Eeyora1]

How about Nicole Bobek by denying her medical bye to Nationals in 1999?

 

[Coco]

I do believe Kimmie Meissner was told she wouldn't be sent out to international competitions until she got her lutz and/or flip back. They pulled her GP assignment from her. Callaghan made a stink about it.

 

[snoopysnake]

Well she had her own technical issues and would have no chance under IJS. I am glad she at least medaled at 4CCs twice (gold and bronze) when it was still a B event and under 6.0. Some US champions like Rachael Flatt or Alissa Czisny or even Gracie Gold never even won a senior international championship medal.

Alissa Czisny won the GPF final!

 

[gkelly]

There are many examples of USFS officials "sending messages" to skaters through actions such as competition scores, competition assignments, or denials of, e.g., discretionary byes that they could no longer count on favored status from the federation. Which the skaters might well interpret as a sign that they might as well retire because they weren't going to get the support they would need to achieve their remaining goals.

In some cases those interpretations might have been overinterpretations and the judges or committee members may simply have intended the message to be "Your skating today wasn't worthy of higher scores" or "You need to play by the same rules as everyone else regardless of your past success -- no special favors."

It's also possible that there have been cases where an individual official speaking for themselves and not in any official capacity might have advised a skater that they weren't going to receive special support or weren't likely to achieve their highest competitive dreams and that it might be in their best interests to move on to the next phase of their lives. Not that we have any examples of this because if it has ever happened it would have been a private communication between the individuals.

But neither of the above constitute the federation issuing an official communication flat out telling a skater to retire. That's what the original post asked, and the answer to that is No. The federation doesn't do that.

Have fun interpreting hidden messages in the scores and competition decisions, but those are answers to a different question than the one asked in the title of this thread.

 

[Jammers]

Agnes Zawadzki in 2014 after winning the Bronze medal the previous two Nationals got dropped like a hot potato after her SP all the way down to 13th place. Granted she made some mistakes but after being held up at Nationals before the USFSA sent her the message they were tired of her underachieving and wouldn't hold her up anymore. It might not have been a you should retire message but it was a message all the same.

 

[Willin]

I'll say it as many times as I need to: USFSA does not tell the judges to "send messages" to skaters. Some of the judges on the committee may have their own opinion of skaters that reflects their job on the committee, but a lot of judges are simply that: judges. They go to the competition, sit down, judge, and go home. The most feedback they get from USFSA about their judging is something along the lines of "you gave that element a +2, based on the bullet point system it should've been 0 or in the negatives" or something similar.

Therefore, I think that any score dropping is less a message from USFSA to tell skaters to retire and more a message from the judging panel that the skater needs to do something differently. That something differently may be a response to the packaging, mistakes, performance quality, skating skills, losing jumping ability, etc. The skater can choose to work their butt off to correct those problems (like Adam and Mirai), decide they want to continue for love of the sport rather than competitiveness (Rachel), or simply retire.

If USFSA does send messages, it's through direct communication, not scores. Assignments may send some kind of message, but for things like the Grand Prix they don't determine assignments. We know they'll tell people who may not be internationally competitive in singles to switch to pairs or that they sometimes suggest partnerships for dance and pairs. One would think they have discussions with certain skaters about their prospects for that season.

@Seerek As I pointed out in another thread, after Spring 2011 Rachel Flatt went to Stanford. I think Freshman year she was seeing how internationally competitive she could remain, but in the years after that she was skating for fun and love for the sport - not because she thought she'd be on the World podium. I'm sure USFSA knows that, and I'm sure the skaters tell USFSA stuff like that. Not that they'd turn down international assignments or teams if they made them, but that they are skating because they love it as opposed to training all-out for an Olympic medal.

 

[Marco]

Alissa Czisny won the Grand Prix Final in 2010. Does that count?

It's a great win, but GPF is not a championship event.

 

[overedge]

How about Nicole Bobek by denying her medical bye to Nationals in 1999?

I don't think that was a message to retire. I think that was a message to not skate in professional shows and then expect special treatment if you didn't put in the training time for amateur competition.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Assignments may send some kind of message, but for things like the Grand Prix they don't determine assignments.

They determine whether they submit the skater on the GP list. They can refuse to do so, even if the skater earned guaranteed spot(s) from the prior year's competition. The Canadian Fed did this with Sandhu, and there was a newspaper article in which he was quoted as saying he understood. Plus they determine host spots. And who knows how much backdoor diplomacy and horsetrading is going on among the Feds.

It would be pretty clear if a skater/team was guaranteed spot(s) and wasn't assigned any, and they didn't post somewhere that they had decided on their own to skip GP or that they were injured. If a skater/team isn't guaranteed spots, since there's no published alternates list, unless they say they weren't submitted, you can't tell why they were skipped in most cases, especially now that there are 10 skaters on the list.

 

[Jammers]

It's a great win, but GPF is not a championship event.

It's idiotic that the GPF isn't considered a championship event since you have the top 6 skaters or teams facing each other after the GP season. Looking at Europeans on the other hand you might have only 3 or 4 strong skaters or teams in each event while not facing skaters from North America or Asia yet i wonder how is that considered a championship event when half the world isn't even included.

 

[Marco]

I think around 2003-4, USFS was trying to tell Kwan that Cohen was now the chosen one instead. They let Cohen beat a clean (but shaky) Kwan in the short program at 2004 Nationals and even gave her a 6.0 in the free after she had a fall. I would think Kwan had no choice but to accept that though because she had purposely chosen a light competitive schedule (no GPs) and deep down was incredibly injured. Still, Cohen never quite put it together at Nationals to beat Kwan though.

 

[giselle23]

It's a great win, but GPF is not a championship event.

Maybe not technically but it's a distinction without a difference. A Grand Prix Final win certainly is more impressive than a win at the European or 4 Continents "championship" events. Alissa joins Yuna Kim, Mao Asada, Evgenia Medvedeva, Irina Slutskaya, Sasha Cohen, Carolina Kostner, Tara Lipinski and Michelle Kwan as a non-"champion" at the Grand Prix Final.

 

[kittysk8ts]

"Go Forth And Multiply".

Hahaha! Giggle.

 

[leafygreens]

I would say they sent a strong message to Rachael Flatt when they fined her. That was really unprecedented.