The Dance Hall 5: Ice Dance Fans 2017-2018

[cocotaffy]

FB/S now that's such a crime with those great programs this year. Why couldn't they skate for Canada ? It's not like it's gonna be overcrowded in the next cycle. They could give G/P a run for their money.

 

[chapis]

Agree, but I really liked H/K’s SD in Zagreb and was pleasantly surprised
Unfortunately for them they weren’t that great at Nats
Their FD also has great potential to shine and honestly speaking I’m glad that Spanish duo (well, half Spanish ) is going to the Olympics with Don Quixote

Same here. I did not like their SD but in Zagreb it was really fabulous and IMO their FD is better than that of S/D, the costumes are great too.

 

[jbuckbee]

Did anyone else notice that at Golden Spin, the Belarus judge was not on the panel after the SD? Hmmmm....don't see that happen. Wonder what was up with that?

 

[Dobre]

I think it's quite remarkable. Hurtado & Khaliavin competed only twice this season prior to their first qualifying event. Once at Finlandia and once at Open d'Andorra. To come out of that scenario and the disappointment from being passed over last season in order to win the Olympic berth, it's really quite something. Both teams are obviously very close nationally and internationally at this point in time. But I like the Don Quixote the best of the four programs, and I think H&K have the most potential long term so I was rooting for them. It sounds as though the 3-year rule is a non issue (I sincerely hope that is accurate). And I'm glad that S&D will get a shot at Worlds. They've obviously worked hard for it.

I wouldn't place any bets on the battle being over for the season between the two young French teams. They've been quite close internationally for at least three years. Lauriault & Le Gac have a season's headstart on gaining recognition in the senior ranks, and Abachkina & Thauron opened a door here at Nationals. But I really like Abachkina & Thauron. I think they are more volatile than L&LG, but there is something special about A&T as performers--especially Abachkina.

 

[wickedwitch]

Of the four programs, S/D's FD is by far the weakest and one of the weakest FDs of the year from any team. I think that killed them. H/K, OTOH, have two solid programs.

 

[GreenGan]

It would be nice if H/K could leave Zhulin, but I don't see where they could go given that Khaliavin isn't going to relocate without his wife. If there were a high level center in Europe, that would have been a good option; with Khaliavin now a citizen of an EU country, Monko could coach or find some other job. But what would she do in Canada or the US? How would they even afford it?

Well there is Zazoui, who doesn't have any top team right now. She knows how to package a team but since Didier and her are currently fighting (or were fighting ? I need update on this) for the head of French FS, it might not be the best choice...
I could also say Fusar-Poli, or the trainer of Capellini/Lanotte for next year since they will probably retire this season ?

 

[Anyasnake]

Well there is Zazoui, who doesn't have any top team right now. She knows how to package a team but since Didier and her are currently fighting (or were fighting ? I need update on this) for the head of French FS, it might not be the best choice...

I have no idea about her whereabouts now. She wants to be head of the fed ? I'd like that...
Didier must be biting his tongue now. His top team is going to the Olys being co-favourite, yet they could have had that Olympic experience 4 years ago if it wasn't for these stupid fights between him and Zazoui. Ugh.

 

[MarieM]

S&K don't deserve to go considering how those results in Zagreb were fixed and their coach was reported to the ISU.
S&K = Sara and Kyril sorry !

EDIT: And the BLR judge was suspended for cheating between SD&FD there.
I am mad the spanish federation went with those results and knowing they were the one reporting that hitman.
Adding that several letters were sent to the ISU to report the rigging of that event. It should not be taken into account for anyone.

 

[jbuckbee]

S&K don't deserve to go considering how those results in Zagreb were fixed and their coach was reported to the ISU.

EDIT: And the BLR judge was suspended for cheating between SD&FD there.
I am mad the spanish federation went with those results and knowing they were the one reporting that hitman.
Adding that several letters were sent to the ISU to report the rigging of that event. It should not be taken into account for anyone.

Totally agree.

 

[Anyasnake]

S&K don't deserve to go considering how those results in Zagreb were fixed and their coach was reported to the ISU.

EDIT: And the BLR judge was suspended for cheating between SD&FD there.
I am mad the spanish federation went with those results and knowing they were the one reporting that hitman.
Adding that several letters were sent to the ISU to report the rigging of that event. It should not be taken into account for anyone.

 

[chapis]

S&K don't deserve to go considering how those results in Zagreb were fixed and their coach was reported to the ISU.

EDIT: And the BLR judge was suspended for cheating between SD&FD there.
I am mad the spanish federation went with those results and knowing they were the one reporting that hitman.
Adding that several letters were sent to the ISU to report the rigging of that event. It should not be taken into account for anyone.

What? where are the proofs?

 

[marbri]

S&K don't deserve to go considering how those results in Zagreb were fixed and their coach was reported to the ISU.

EDIT: And the BLR judge was suspended for cheating between SD&FD there.
I am mad the spanish federation went with those results and knowing they were the one reporting that hitman.
Adding that several letters were sent to the ISU to report the rigging of that event. It should not be taken into account for anyone.

Do you mean Hurtado and Khaliavin when you write S/K or Sinitsina and Katsalapov? I am guessing the Spanish team given the posts around yours but my god it's confusing.

 

[Dobre]

Do you mean Hurtado and Khaliavin when you write S/K or Sinitsina and Katsalapov? I am guessing the Spanish team given the posts around yours but my god it's confusing.

Agreed. Someone used "G&G" for Papadakis & Cizeron this week in a Secret Sources thread, and I was sitting there wondering how Gordeeva & Grinkov got into the conversation. (Took me ages to figure out who T&S were several weeks ago). I guess some people assume that these teams are so famous, readers will just make the leap. But--FYI--we don't. Perhaps using first-name initials has become a thing somewhere on social media? But if a poster puts G&G, I'll assume Gordeeva & Grinkov or Grushina & Goncharov. And if S&K, I'll assume Stolbova & Klimov or Sinitsina & Katsalapov.

 

[starrynight]

S&K don't deserve to go considering how those results in Zagreb were fixed and their coach was reported to the ISU.

EDIT: And the BLR judge was suspended for cheating between SD&FD there.
I am mad the spanish federation went with those results and knowing they were the one reporting that hitman.
Adding that several letters were sent to the ISU to report the rigging of that event. It should not be taken into account for anyone.

Omg please, full explanation with all the details for those of us who don't know the story!

 

[marbri]

Agreed. Someone used "G&G" for Papadakis & Cizeron this week in the Secret Sources thread, and I was sitting there wondering how Gordeeva & Grinkov got into the conversation. (Took me ages to figure out who T&S were several weeks ago). I guess some people assume that these teams are so famous, readers will just make the leap. But--FYI--we don't. Perhaps using first-name initials has become a thing somewhere on social media? But if a poster puts G&G, I'll assume Gordeeva & Grinkov or Grushina & Goncharov. And if S&K, I'll assume Stolbova & Klimov or Sinitsina & Katsalapov.

Yeah. I do use initials for surnames which has always been the norm around here so using it for first names is just so confusing, especially when their first names are the same initials as surnames of another in the same discipline. Even surnames can get confusing but I think in general we always dealt with it by saying DomShabs vs DelSchoes.

 

[blancanieves]

S&K don't deserve to go considering how those results in Zagreb were fixed and their coach was reported to the ISU.

EDIT: And the BLR judge was suspended for cheating between SD&FD there.
I am mad the spanish federation went with those results and knowing they were the one reporting that hitman.

Who fixed the competition in benefit of whom?

 

[jbuckbee]

Who fixed the competition in benefit of whom?

Well...since H/K Beat S/D in the short by 4 points and then the BLR judge was removed, it seems fairly obvious as to who was benefitting. And as MarieM points out, Spanish federation reported the cheating. Question is why the competition was still considered.should be thrown out and come down to Spanish nationals. H/K should withdraw if they had they had any integrity.

 

[chapis]

Well...since H/K Beat S/D in the short by 4 points and then the BLR judge was removed, it seems fairly obvious as to who was benefitting. And as MarieM points out, Spanish federation reported the cheating. Question is why the competition was still considered.should be thrown out and come down to Spanish nationals. H/K should withdraw if they had they had any integrity.

And since when 1 judge is so powerful? , 4 points?, it would be more effective buy to the technical specialist. And their short dance was skated really well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5uZO-qRHVs

In addition Sara and Kirill have had financial problems, they have had difficulties even to enter competitions because they have not got enough money, in exchange for what the BR judge was risking his reputation ?, until now it is only palaver .

 

[jbuckbee]

And since when 1 judge is so powerful? , 4 points?, it would be more effective buy to the technical specialist. And their short dance was skated really well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5uZO-qRHVs

In addition Sara and Kirill have had financial problems, they have had difficulties even to enter competitions because they have not got enough money, in exchange for what the BR judge was risking his reputation ?, until now it is only palaver .

Yup..blah, blah. We'll see.

 

[VGThuy]

Can someone quick link me to the protocols for Golden Spin SD? I’d like to see the BLR judges scores to see if some people’s knee jerk conspiracy has merit.

 

[blancanieves]

Can someone quick link me to the protocols for Golden Spin SD? I’d like to see the BLR judges scores to see if some people’s knee jerk conspiracy has merit.

http://sharp-jackson-2e11d8.bitballoon.com/IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf

 

[jbuckbee]

Can someone quick link me to the protocols for Golden Spin SD? I’d like to see the BLR judges scores to see if some people’s knee jerk conspiracy has merit.

He was removed from the panel. Why else would that have happened!

 

[SLIVER]

I think it was going to be controversial whoever was chosen S/D or H/K.
That issue with the BLR judge being evicted mid competition and ppl being disgruntled with Zhulin and his 'lobbying' (to use the term mildly) in Zagreb, leaves us with a question mark over H/K's score in Zagreb. No doubt in my mind that BLR, RUS, TUR and BLR caller leads ppl to believe these would favour Khaliavin, indeed they all had them clearly ahead of S/M.
But, the same could be said about H/K's level 1 (!!) rumba at nationals. Level 1 in a national champ is certainly questionable, the youtube vid is not super clear, however it is safe to say, to call a level 1 on a team bidding for the olympics is definitely harsh and not giving them the benefit of the doubt. It can seem a little 'suspiciously harsh'.
To be fair to the callers, in the free it was S/D who got the harder calls.
It was pretty obvious most of the panel chose S/D, 6/7 gave them higher PCS. The fact they got to go to worlds last year, for no apparent reason, highlights the fact the Spanish Fed def slightly favours S/D.
Its a tough one either way, Im sure each team is spinning their own story.
I havent watched both very closely but H/K definitely have slightly stronger skating skills mainly due to Khaliavin. In terms of prog, team Montreal are definitely a little more interesting and well packaged. A bitter blow for team MTL all in all and Donohue.

 

[VGThuy]

http://sharp-jackson-2e11d8.bitballoon.com/IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf

Thanks for the link. Which one is the Belarusian judge?

 

[mollymgr]

Thanks for the link. Which one is the Belarusian judge?

http://sharp-jackson-2e11d8.bitballoon.com/seg013of

 

[blancanieves]

Thanks for the link. Which one is the Belarusian judge?

No idea.

Well...since H/K Beat S/D in the short by 4 points and then the BLR judge was removed, it seems fairly obvious as to who was benefitting. And as MarieM points out, Spanish federation reported the cheating. Question is why the competition was still considered.should be thrown out and come down to Spanish nationals. H/K should withdraw if they had they had any integrity.

Debates aside, I never vilify skaters. Last season I wholeheartedly opposed the Spanish Federation's decision to send Smart/Diaz to Worlds disregarding Hurtado/Kaliavin's rightful qualification per the pre-established criteria. But I never expected Smart/Diaz to refuse to attend in a show of solidarity let alone integrity.

 

[clairecloutier]

I’ll wait for more information before making any judgments here. The allegations are coming from one source and they’re not confirmed yet by any other party.

 

[MsZem]

Well...since H/K Beat S/D in the short by 4 points and then the BLR judge was removed, it seems fairly obvious as to who was benefitting. And as MarieM points out, Spanish federation reported the cheating. Question is why the competition was still considered.should be thrown out and come down to Spanish nationals. H/K should withdraw if they had they had any integrity.

H/K had an even larger lead coming out of the SP at last season's Spanish Nats, but only a smallish margin in the FD. Does that also indicate that something was amiss? It's certainly not the lack of a BLR judge that caused Hurtado's twizzle mistake in the FD at Golden Spin.

I've seen a lot of allegations about the judging at Golden Spin. I have yet to see much proof, however, of anything more nefarious than a lenient technical panel. Has there even been any indication as to why the judge in question wasn't there for the FD?

Perhaps the Spanish federation is satisfied that the gap between its top two teams at that event was justified. The same federation that did not hesitate to go against its published criteria last season, to the benefit of S/D.

 

[VGThuy]

Wow, there really was a big gap between the BLR judge's scores for H/K and S/D. Olivia Smart seems upset and even told her followers to read the skating forums to learn more about the history of cheating in ice dance:

https://twitter.com/olivia_smart/status/942583313394479104

She even said she and Adria are the true Team Spain:

https://twitter.com/olivia_smart/status/942511776096247808

and created the hashtag #playfair.

It looks like Zach Donohue, Brooklee Han, Christina Carreria, Matthew Blackmer, Marissa Castelli, and Jordan Dodds have all liked at least one of her tweets.

 

[ice crystal]

Wow, there really was a big gap between the BLR judge's scores for H/K and S/D. Olivia Smart seems upset and even told her followers to read the skating forums to learn more about the history of cheating in ice dance:

https://twitter.com/olivia_smart/status/942583313394479104

She even said she and Adria are the true Team Spain:

https://twitter.com/olivia_smart/status/942511776096247808

and created the hashtag #playfair.

It looks like Zach Donohue, Matthew Blackmer, Marissa Castelli and Jordan Dodds have all liked it.

Here is her tweet. It might disappear quickly She doesn't do herself and her team a favour here .
"Wow, if ya’ll don’t read any of the skating forums.. you should, learn a lot about the past ice dance competition scandals. #playfair #Olympics2018"

Respect to H/K's for their graceful reaction to getting sidelined, some might say 'unfairly', last season.