Sasha is DIVINE
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 868
LOL this thread is the first thing I thought about after seeing that interview had been posted! I hoped it might make a couple posters here happy.
Roz was not responsible for Kat’s magical, meteoric overnight improvement in figures. Ironically, Roz’s finishes more closely match Anett’s and Kat’s Linda’s, but the rules were changed after LP and unlike Anett, Roz could not use her figures score to prop herself up to a win.
I mean, I get that coaches are biased so their assessment may be off (ie. checking the tracings), but the "coffee break"? Was that actually a thing that happened? I cannot fathom how blatantly corrupt that sounds... Also, the judges were allowed to take a coffee break outside of ice resurfacings? I know figures took forever to judge but isn't that a bit excessive?During the Compulsory Figures at the Olympics, Linda was in 2nd until there was a 'coffee break', the competition resumed and Linda's marks after the break were consistently lower and she dropped to 3rd behind Dagmar Lurz. Her team went on the ice to review a tracing. They thought the marks were odd because Dagmar's loop was flat and should've received lower marks while Linda's tracing was superior.
Yeah. It always seems that at an Olympics (and in an Olympic season in general) the judging is really weird. For some reason this season a lot of the scores of all ladies with a potential to medal (ie. Russian, Canadian, Japanese ladies) are really inflated (some ladies more than others). It's also fishy how little falls are being punished. I get it in Medvedeva's case because her fall didn't really interrupt the program for more than a couple of seconds, but there's men that had splatfest programs who were not punished at all! Didn't some even get SBs or PBs with their fall-filled programs?I think the judges often tweek the use of the rules to assign a winner "at the Olympics", anyway. Worlds is a much more objective competition.
I mean, I get that coaches are biased so their assessment may be off (ie. checking the tracings), but the "coffee break"? Was that actually a thing that happened? I cannot fathom how blatantly corrupt that sounds... Also, the judges were allowed to take a coffee break outside of ice resurfacings? I know figures took forever to judge but isn't that a bit excessive?
... one of Cousins' biggest threats for the gold was Frau Mueller's other charge in Lake Placid, Jan Hoffmann. Cousins' victory was on a knife edge. He actually earned a slightly lower point total, but better ordinals.
I am still amazed Annett won. She almost blew it in the short (placing 4th), and only coming 3rd in the free.
It is funny that you put it that way. Hoffmann was actually the skater with the better record. Cousins had never even won a major international title until he beat the three time reigning European Champion, Hoffmann, at 1980 Euros. Then Hoffmann scored more points than Cousins at the Olympics but still lost. Then Hoffmann won 1980 Worlds. I wonder if it was at those 1980 Euros that Fassi said to Mueller, "You know, they won't let you have both singles Gold medals, so here's what we can do . . ."
Hoffmann was indeed the skater with the better record.
But Cousins was no slouch, either. To date, he was free - skating champion of the world in 1978 and 1979, and took silver to Hoffmann's bronze in Vienna at the 1979 World Championships.
It is funny that you put it that way. Hoffmann was actually the skater with the better record. Cousins had never even won a major international title until he beat the three time reigning European Champion, Hoffmann, at 1980 Euros. Then Hoffmann scored more points than Cousins at the Olympics but still lost. Then Hoffmann won 1980 Worlds. I wonder if it was at those 1980 Euros that Fassi said to Mueller, "You know, they won't let you have both singles Gold medals, so here's what we can do . . ."
Annett blew the short at 1980 Euros as well because she could not do a triple-double combo that included a 2Lp. However, it was less consequential at Euros because it did not include all the world-class skaters since the Americans, Canadians, and Japanese (Given Watanabe was an unusual case) could not participate.. Annett should have been lower than 4th in the SP at the Olympics.
There was a reason Cousins never won. The competition format did not favor him. Jan was simply the better skater across the three segments. Cousins was as poor a fit for that competition format as Lisa Marie Allen. Why Fassi could not get either of them to do better in figures, I will never know. Wasn't that Fassi's specialty?
There is a fantastic documentary posted by floskate which details this very issue. I'll see if I can source it for you when I have a moment.
Still, in the scheme of things, who do we remember more?
It was debated years ago that Sandy Lenz (no 3 American) and oddly enough, Dagmar Lurz who had the SP of her life should have both beaten Poetzsch and pushed her down to 6th. Also, too bad Emi Watanabe screwed up the jump combo, she would’ve easily been 4th and set herself up to medal
Still, in the scheme of things, who do we remember more?
Who is "we"?
Any posters here who were following figure skating in East Germany during the 1970s and 80s?
I go back and forth on Hoffmann/Cousins. Had he not won we would be looking back and lamenting a judging system that held back one of the sports greatest ever free skaters. But had the factored placements been in place, Jan would have won plain and simple. Jan was the better overall skater when you factor in compulsory figures and way more consistent than Robin, although obviously without Robin's flair, musicality and showmanship. So I guess I remain conflicted But Jan's performances in 1980 are just stellar in every respect. You can see the hard work he'd put in to his skating to try and compete with Robin. It was without doubt the greatest LP he ever had and he skated it brilliantly in Lake Placid AND Dortmund. I just have so much for him!
If I offended you, I apologise. But for the record, competitive skating did exist before Medvedeva and Hanyu entered the scene.
Linda's inner diva really seemed to come out most when discussing her pro career. My take away was that I hadn't realized how much I'd been played by propaganda over the years. For 5 years ABC droned on over and over again this narrative of the shy girl next door who was held back in competition by her lack of confidence, but did any of it exist outside of some idea a tv producer got in a meeting one day? And the obvious pride Linda took in being a Disney princess really flies in the face of Brennan's narrative of all the skaters like poor poor SOI staple Roz humiliated and demeaned by Disney until hero Scott came along to save pro skating.
... Carlo Fassi approached Linda's mother prior to the 80 Olympics and told her that he could make Linda an Olympic Champion, but Linda was loyal to Frank and never considered it.
I really enjoyed hearing about her touring days. The truth is that a lot more skaters were employed by the Disney shows than SOI. But color me amused when Roz complained about the travel with the Disney show - SOI at its height was traveling for months on end!
So there were 22 skaters doing 3 figures each at around 5 minutes per skate. That is 5.5 hours without floods. ( Did they use a hand flooded for Olympics?) Remember the judges stood on the ice for this. They would need a break or two. You think a few 15 minutes breaks would unthaw them?Even now for large events, the judges get breaks that are longer than 15 minutes.Yeah. These were Linda's words during the interview. She mentioned 'coffee break'. I think she meant after 2 or so figures, the judges took a break and the insinuation is that there was an opening to discuss the competition as it was happening. She noted her marks for the figure(s) after the break were lower. No one knows what exactly was said, but it was a 'take it for what you will' comment.
I believe Sumners felt that Disney was a bit of a come down after the glamour of amateur competition, and during her tenure with them, had to jump out of a giant cake to celebrate Donald Duck's 50th birthday. I guess it didn't help her ego, being second fiddle to a cartoon character, either.
Rosalynn, however, handed in some of her most elegant, exciting and creative work with Stars On Ice. It was clear how valued she felt working with Scott's company.
Oh, I agree. But did you listen to Linda's interview? That's not how she talked to Linda, apparently. It was about the "travel" not the show.
Oh, I agree. But did you listen to Linda's interview? That's not how she talked to Linda, apparently. It was about the "travel" not the show.
For someone who started skating relatively late, she got very good very quickly but once everything was established by 1976 it was as if it was all just set in stone. The formula was working so why tamper with it? Linda alludes to this herself in the first part. But that whole quad there was Denise Biellmann having a go at triple toe, sal, loop and lutz and lo and behold, by 1980 she's packaged well, landing everything and taking the free at the Olympics! The truth is, Fratianne should have been a far superior free skater to Anett but ended up being just slightly better packaged and a tad more consistent.