I, Tonya

[Clay]

"If we'd been here a few days earlier, it would've given us a chance to get over her jet lag—even though I know Tonya never gets jet lag," said Teachman. "This is a helluva time to be scared and doubting herself, and that's exactly what she did."

This was a quote from Tonya's coach, Dody Teachman in Sports Illustrated.
The article goes on to say it was Tonya's idea to arrive just several days before the event.

https://www.si.com/vault/1992/03/02/106783671/stiring

 

[VGThuy]

Has it been confirmed that this movie presents Albertville in a way where it's all the USFS's fault why Tonya arrived so late? If it does that it sort of confirms what I think the intentions of the filmmakers were with this film and I may skip it no matter how good it supposedly is.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Has it been confirmed that this movie presents Albertville in a way where it's all the USFS's fault why Tonya arrived so late? If it does that it sort of confirms what I think the intentions of the filmmakers were with this film and I may skip it no matter how good it supposedly is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbMQW8nGuS8&feature=youtu.be

 

[Inessence]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbMQW8nGuS8&feature=youtu.be

Also, in either the 30 for 30, or the "Nancy and Tonya" special in 2014, Dody Teachman said Tonya left late for Albertville because (paraphrasing) "She didn't want to leave Jeff and because she didn't think she had to."

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Also, in either the 30 for 30, or the "Nancy and Tonya" special in 2014, Dody Teachman said Tonya left late for Albertville because (paraphrasing) "She didn't want to leave Jeff and because she didn't think she had to."

I think this is one of the reasons why I, TONYA is going to be so compelling. Each character has a different take on the same story. Who do you believe most?

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Also, in either the 30 for 30, or the "Nancy and Tonya" special in 2014, Dody Teachman said Tonya left late for Albertville because (paraphrasing) "She didn't want to leave Jeff and because she didn't think she had to."

I think you've summarised one of the frustrations Frank Carrol has had with past students like Kwan, Nagasu and Gold.

When they were younger, his skaters seemed more likely to follow his instructions verbatim. Once they reached adulthood, and there were outside distractions like boyfriends, the skaters were much harder to control and keep focussed.

Teachman's career had a lot riding on Harding's success in Albertville. I am not surprised she was bitter.

Jeff's influence would have been tremendous at the time, and given his history of abuse, that control would have been hard to shake.

 

[Inessence]

I think this is one of the reasons why I, TONYA is going to be so compelling. Each character has a different take on the same story. Who do you believe most?

Well, I can't imagine spending most of my life on the goal of being World and Olympic Champion and then showing up right before I'm to skate and missing out on the whole experience. I take it she was disillusioned by this time for numerous reasons. Her abusive marriage and recent reconciliation, the Sports Illustrated article that came out right before where she spilled her guts and later regretted it, nursing her recent ankle injury, and yes, the possible shabby treatment she received from the USFSA and IOC.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Well, I can't imagine spending most of my life on the goal of being World and Olympic Champion and then showing up right before I'm to skate and missing out on the whole experience. I take it she was disillusioned by this time for numerous reasons. Her abusive marriage and recent reconciliation, the Sports Illustrated article that came out right before where she spilled her guts and later regretted it, nursing her recent ankle injury, and yes, the possible shabby treatment she received from the USFSA and IOC.

Exactly.

Harding's career was filled with so many outside influences and unconscious choices.

What might have been. :-(

 

[VGThuy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbMQW8nGuS8&feature=youtu.be

Thanks for this. I would to have loved it if there were some follow-up questions because I'm not sure if I completely buy this story the way the Dianne presented it. I do think there may have been monitoring sessions but I also think the USFS would not have wanted Tonya to go to Albertville at the very last minute the way she did unless they seriously did want to sabotage her chances, which I know some do believe because it may have given Nancy a better chance to medal.

 

[Inessence]

Thanks for this. I would to have loved it if there were some follow-up questions because I'm not sure if I completely buy this story the way the Dianne presented it. I do think there may have been monitoring sessions but I also think the USFS would not have wanted Tonya to go to Albertville at the very last minute the way she did unless they seriously did want to sabotage her chances, which I know some do believe because it may have given Nancy a better chance to medal.

Diane seems so uncomfortable being interviewed and really measures what she says. It's no surprise she's refused to be interviewed post-scandal.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Thanks for this. I would to have loved it if there were some follow-up questions because I'm not sure if I completely buy this story the way the Dianne presented it. I do think there may have been monitoring sessions but I also think the USFS would not have wanted Tonya to go to Albertville at the very last minute the way she did unless they seriously did want to sabotage her chances, which I know some do believe because it may have given Nancy a better chance to medal.

I thought Harding out- skated Kerrigan in the free skate in Albertville.

 

[Vagabond]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbMQW8nGuS8&feature=youtu.be

"Tonya was having trouble with her jumps, and the Olympic International Committee was trying to decide whether they were going to send her...."

I assume that she means a committee of the USFSA, not NISA, the USOC, or the IOC.

It's hard to dispute the committee's wisdom when Harding's own coach admits that Harding was having trouble with her jumps.

 

[VGThuy]

I thought Harding out- skated Kerrigan in the free skate in Albertville.

That may be true, but it's sort of outside the scope of what we're talking about. Unless you're saying that the fact that Tonya should have placed higher than Kerrigan in the LP and did not is evidence that there was a concerted effort to keep Tonya from having success in favor of Nancy. Which, I think is a bit far-fetched even in my cynical, politicking is happening in skating mind.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

That may be true, but it's sort of outside the scope of what we're talking about.

Disagree. Kerrigan skated quite poorly in Orlando at US Nationals, too.

 

[VGThuy]

Disagree. Kerrigan skated quite poorly in Orlando at US Nationals, too.

And how does that prove that USFS forced Tonya to not be able to fly to Albertville until two days before the short program maybe with the intention to sabotage Tonya in favor of Nancy?

 

[Vagabond]

The issue wasn't how well or poorly Harding skated at Nationals, which were in early January, but how she was skating about five weeks later, i.e., about a week before she flew to Europe

 

[pixie cut]

To date, the USFSA picks and chooses skaters to represent them at the Olympics, irrespective of where they finish on the national podium. Nothing they allegedly do or don't do would surprise me.

Considering Kristi Yamaguchi and Nancy Kerrigan, the gold and bronze medalists at the 1991 World Championships, were on the team, I'd say the third place skater was of minimal importance. I would guess USFS would rather not have put Nicole Bobek on the 98 team, but with Michelle Kwan and Tara Lipinski on the team, what difference did third place make?

 

[pixie cut]

The USFSA could have done what they did in 1994, when they sent Michelle Kwan on stand-by.

Of course, they could have also sent Harding and Lisa Ervin to Albertville, and make them skate off for the berth in France.

True, but Lisa Ervin was untested in senior international competition. Again, Kristi and Nancy already on the team. Who cares about the third skater? Of course, a sweep like they had at 91 Worlds would have been nice, but Ervin wasn't going to bring that.

 

[berthesghost]

I think you all are missing the forest for the tree. No matter what topic or what specifics are to be discussed, not a single poor choice made by Tonya is ever her own fault. Ever. Period.

 

[Inessence]

I think you all are missing the forest for the tree. No matter what topic or what specifics are to be discussed, not a single poor choice made by Tonya is ever her own fault. Ever. Period.

Well, she did cop to being "lazy" and thinking she could "pull it out of a hat" in preparing for 1992 season because she was dealing with a lot at home.

Although, if you read the I, Tonya screenplay, a running joke in the film is "It's not my fault!" So they don't let her off the hook on that front.

 

[berthesghost]

Considering Kristi Yamaguchi and Nancy Kerrigan, the gold and bronze medalists at the 1991 World Championships, were on the team, I'd say the third place skater was of minimal importance. I would guess USFS would rather not have put Nicole Bobek on the 98 team, but with Michelle Kwan and Tara Lipinski on the team, what difference did third place make?

IMO
Nagano: Nicole could come anywhere from bronze to last. They could afford to gamble.
Albertville: again, with 3 world medalists they could afford to gamble, but since Tonya was the only woman not named Midori who could land a 3x, had just won the previous SA, was silver at the last worlds, and did well enough to medal at nats, the idea that she wasn’t being sent to France seems like pure fantasy.

 

[skatesindreams]

If you read the I, Tonya screenplay, a running joke in the film is "It's not my fault!"

That's precisely the problem.
It is never handled as the serious issue it was.

 

[meggonzo]

The USFSA could have done what they did in 1994, when they sent Michelle Kwan on stand-by.

Of course, they could have also sent Harding and Lisa Ervin to Albertville, and make them skate off for the berth in France.

I can't imagine USFS wanting to send Lisa Ervin in Tonya's place.

 

[jenniferlyon]

I think you all are missing the forest for the tree. No matter what topic or what specifics are to be discussed, not a single poor choice made by Tonya is ever her own fault. Ever. Period.

Yes. This. It is a hallmark of Tonya's character. She also plays the "I'm tough as nails" card when it suits her, but then when something goes wrong, she's this poor, helpless li'l thang.

 

[bardtoob]

Even stupidly sabotaging their skater and creating a situation to where she had no other choice but to fly out two days before the Ladies SP was about to start?

How about using harsher technical calling than used in International Competition immediately prior to an Olympics, thus reducing the chances of an American medaling?

 

[Inessence]

Yes. This. It is a hallmark of Tonya's character. She also plays the "I'm tough as nails" card when it suits her, but then when something goes wrong, she's this poor, helpless li'l thang.

The pseudo-psychologist in me reads that as PTSD defense mechanisms or even narcissism. Both equally likely.

 

[bardtoob]

Here is what Dianne Rawlinson said about Tonya being late to the Olympics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbMQW8nGuS8&feature=youtu.be&t=14

At the time, this must not have made Tonya look good, so I am inclined to believe it was true.

 

[VGThuy]

How about use harsher technical calling than used in International Competition immediately prior to an Olympics, thus reducing the chances of an American medaling?

I'm sorry but I don't follow.

ETA: If you're talking about Mirai Nagasu at 2010 Nationals, her base value in that LP even with the UR calls was higher at Nationals than it was at Cup of China prior and at Worlds after. Even her first place Worlds SP had a UR call. Don't people complain these days that USFS should be using harsher tech calling to better prepare their skaters for international competition and also so they won't be surprised when they get UR calls later on if they don't work on it?

 

[MacMadame]

"If we'd been here a few days earlier, it would've given us a chance to get over her jet lag—even though I know Tonya never gets jet lag," said Teachman. "This is a helluva time to be scared and doubting herself, and that's exactly what she did."

This was a quote from Tonya's coach, Dody Teachman in Sports Illustrated.
The article goes on to say it was Tonya's idea to arrive just several days before the event.

https://www.si.com/vault/1992/03/02/106783671/stiring

That's been the story up until now. I doubt the new story because changing the story over time is Tonya's modus operandi.

The makers of this film have made it clear that they are showing the events through the eyes of both Tonya and Jeff that their stories conflict. So I wish people would stop taking one quote or scene from the movie and acting like the filmmakers are presenting that as the truth. They have been clear from the start that their movie isn't really about presenting one absolute truth.

 

[bardtoob]

Don't people complain these days that USFS should be using harsher tech calling to better prepare their skaters for international competition and also so they won't be surprised when they get UR calls later on if they don't work on it?

People are saying that USFS should make high TES Base the prerequisite for high PCS in domestic competition, so you can't win or even get high PCS without high TES. Of course, this would be incongruent with the explicit rules, but it certainly does encourage Russian skaters to get their content together.