U.S. Men in 2017 - articles & latest news

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vesperholly

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That doesn't mean USFS will bump any skaters should Adam place outside top 3. Ashley had a better body of work and was a gpf medalist in 2014 and people still griped endless about her selection to the team. I am not sure USFS will want to go through all that again for someone with less credentials
IIRC "body of work" for selections wasn't in effect for 2014. If so, Polina would have been dropped over Mirai.
 

jlai

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IIRC "body of work" for selections wasn't in effect for 2014. If so, Polina would have been dropped over Mirai.
Body of work was in the rules back then.
I don't think we will know for certain who voted what in the international committee in 14. Unless we are in the know we are all just guessing. That includes the bit about who would have been bumped or not bumped
 

Cleo1782

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Body of work was in the rules back then.
I don't think we will know for certain who voted what in the international committee in 14. Unless we are in the know we are all just guessing. That includes the bit about who would have been bumped or not bumped

I believe Polina's 'current' body of work (2nd at Nats, in the jgpf, the future factor) probably held weight against Mirai who was fairly sub par until Nats that year (and for a few years before that)
 

topaz

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Jason's jumps looked the best after working with Frank, particularly the quad and the 3A.

Are you sure? Jason has been working with Gracie's old coach Alexander O in Chicago on quad technique.

Sorry, I don't consider Frank Carroll as the person to go to for "jump technique" problems. Tom Z, yes. Brian Orser, yes. Alexander O, yes.
 

Mrs. P

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Wait, say what? Jason working with Alex O?

Are you sure you aren't mixing Jason up with Shoma? Or Tomoki Hiwatashi (who used to work with Alex before he moved to Kori)?
 
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Marco

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Krasnozhon's SB is more than twenty points higher than that of the next-highest scoring U.S. skater eligible for World Juniiors, i.e., Pulkinen. I think the USFSA wants to maximize its entries for next season's JGP will send Krasnozhon to Junior Worlds unless Pulkinen drastically increases his technical content at Nationals.

Can Alexei K go to both 4CCs and Jr Worlds?
 

Kultakissu

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Are you sure? Jason has been working with Gracie's old coach Alexander O in Chicago on quad technique.

Sorry, I don't consider Frank Carroll as the person to go to for "jump technique" problems. Tom Z, yes. Brian Orser, yes. Alexander O, yes.

He has? I’ve been saying for ages I wish he’d go to Alex!
 

Sylvia

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I read an article recently he was doing some skating/training in highland park.
Can you find the link? AFAIK, Ouriashev coaches at the Glacier Ice Arena in Vernon Hills, IL.

Jason posted a photo around Thanksgiving outside of the Centennial Ice Arena in his hometown of Highland Park, IL: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bb7iScggmyB/?hl=en&taken-by=jasonbskates

ETA:
Can Alexei K go to both 4CCs and Jr Worlds?
He has the minimum scores for both so, yes, he can (if he places 4-6 at Nationals).
 

Tavi

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I read an article recently he was doing some skating/training in highland park.

Could you link the article, please? Alex coaches at Glacier Ice Arena in Vernon Hills. It would be interesting to know if Jason had worked with him - Shoma has done so a lot in the past year or so.

ETA Silvia asked first!
 

Dobre

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I believe Polina's 'current' body of work (2nd at Nats, in the jgpf, the future factor) probably held weight against Mirai who was fairly sub par until Nats that year (and for a few years before that)

I agree. I don't think it was about the future as so many people assume. It was about the present at the time. She was second at Nationals, and she had the triple lutz-triple toe. That combination was gold in 2014. She finished 7th in the SP at the Olympic Games and 5th in the LP at Worlds that year.
 

Willin

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Not to mention Mirai didn't have a coach... If you had a subpar year and a coach, USFS may have some faith that there can be some improvement by the Olympics, but if you have no coach how are you supposed to improve enough? Do you have a training regimen? Are you getting any corrections? Do you even know if you're making a mistake?
Her Nationals skates also weren't as great as some remember them. She got that 3rd place not because she skated well, but because she skated less bad than Ashley. Her jumps were okay, but everything else in that free program was extremely under-choreographed and expressionless. There were also lots of breaks and two-foot skating (not crossovers - 2 foot glides) suggesting she was lacking stamina - something sure to concern the committee that close to the Olympics, especially since she was tired at the end even with those break. And there was only one UR called. Watching it again, she should've gotten at least four more called. I'm sure USFS knows that those URs would've been caught by an international panel and weren't going to be fixed by the Olympics.


I don't think any US man in realistic contention has any of those problems. All of them have coaches. Some have empty choreography, but not nearly that empty. (And besides, in the men's field these days good choreography can easily be trumped by quads) All of them have enough stamina to get through a free skate without major breaks in the program, and even then aren't huffing and puffing at the end. And none but Vincent have serious issues with UR calls on jumps.
So I don't think any will be bumped off the team for the same reasons as her.
 

Cleo1782

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Not to mention Mirai didn't have a coach... If you had a subpar year and a coach, USFS may have some faith that there can be some improvement by the Olympics, but if you have no coach how are you supposed to improve enough? Do you have a training regimen? Are you getting any corrections? Do you even know if you're making a mistake?
Her Nationals skates also weren't as great as some remember them. She got that 3rd place not because she skated well, but because she skated less bad than Ashley. Her jumps were okay, but everything else in that free program was extremely under-choreographed and expressionless. There were also lots of breaks and two-foot skating (not crossovers - 2 foot glides) suggesting she was lacking stamina - something sure to concern the committee that close to the Olympics, especially since she was tired at the end even with those break. And there was only one UR called. Watching it again, she should've gotten at least four more called. I'm sure USFS knows that those URs would've been caught by an international panel and weren't going to be fixed by the Olympics.


I don't think any US man in realistic contention has any of those problems. All of them have coaches. Some have empty choreography, but not nearly that empty. (And besides, in the men's field these days good choreography can easily be trumped by quads) All of them have enough stamina to get through a free skate without major breaks in the program, and even then aren't huffing and puffing at the end. And none but Vincent have serious issues with UR calls on jumps.
So I don't think any will be bumped off the team for the same reasons as her.

OMG! Totally forgot she didn't have a coach. Amy Evidente (her most recent coach at the time) was sitting next to us and super happy for Mirai (in tears for her), but I remember thinking NO ONE is lobbying for Mirai. She is never getting on the team because she seemingly has no plan or strategy for the year. I am shocked she is still skating today, but good for her.
 

misskarne

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I know you've done your best to blot the results of last season's U.S. Nationals out of your mind, but here's a reminder.

I am extremely, painfully aware of what happened at Nationals this year, thankyou. Perhaps the argument might be that you are attempting to put the much more relevant current season's results from your mind, in which Max has displayed far superior form to Vincent. While 2017 Nationals are a part of the body of work, I believe much more emphasis will (or should be) placed on current season form. You can't pick someone based on a result from more than a year ago. That's rather stupid.
 

Vagabond

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I am extremely, painfully aware of what happened at Nationals this year, thankyou. Perhaps the argument might be that you are attempting to put the much more relevant current season's results from your mind, in which Max has displayed far superior form to Vincent. While 2017 Nationals are a part of the body of work, I believe much more emphasis will (or should be) placed on current season form. You can't pick someone based on a result from more than a year ago. That's rather stupid.
The question you originally asked was whether there was any reason for thinking that Vincent Zhou might finish higher than Max Aaron, given that Aaron has finished ahead of Zhou twice this season in head-to-head competition, not why one is better than the other or what factors USFSA might use in picking the Olympic Team.

Given their records this season, I would be surprised if Zhou finished ahead of Aaron at Nationals, but history shows that it could happen.
 

Jayar

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He has the minimum scores for both so, yes, he can (if he places 4-6 at Nationals).

Not necessarily true. Entries for 4CCs are due on January 1, so US Figure Skating will likely nominate 3 entries and 3 alternates like they have in years past. Though I have no inside information, I suspect that Nathan, Adam, Jason, and Max would likely decline. If they go by season's best (senior scores), the six men who would be nominated after that would be Vincent, Alexei, Ross, Grant, Tim, and Sean.
 

misskarne

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The question you originally asked was whether there was any reason for thinking that Vincent Zhou might finish higher than Max Aaron, given that Aaron has finished ahead of Zhou twice this season in head-to-head competition, not why one is better than the other or what factors USFSA might use in picking the Olympic Team.

Given their records this season, I would be surprised if Zhou finished ahead of Aaron at Nationals, but history shows that it could happen.

Actually, the question I was asking was the justification for the naming of Zhou to the Olympic team ahead of Max. Nothing to do with Nationals at all.
 

Vagabond

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Actually, the question I was asking was the justification for the naming of Zhou to the Olympic team ahead of Max. Nothing to do with Nationals at all.
The only possible justification, given that Aaron has outperformed Zhou this season would be Zhou's finishing ahead of Aaron (and probably two others from the Big Five) at Nationals.

History teaches us that it can happen.

:watch:
 

Mrs. P

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Basically unless you're Nathan, the only justification to being name on the U.S. Olympic Team is if you (Adam/Jason/Max/Vincent) beat at least two out of your three opponents at Nationals.

It's worth noting that leading up to Nationals four years ago, the top four based on placements were:
Adam (2nd/4th)
Jason (3rd/5th)
Jeremy (3rd/6th)
Max (3rd/7th)

And average scores:
Adam Rippon: 237.48 (Skate America, NHK Trophy)
Jason Brown: 234.18 (Nebelhorn, Skate America, Trophee Eric Bompard)
Max Aaron: 233.64 (U.S. International Classic, Skate America, NHK Trophy)
Jeremy Abbott: 226.68 (Skate Canada, NHK Trophy)
Richard Dornbush: 213.58 (Finlandia Trophy, Cup of China, Rostelecom Cup)

And Adam and Max beat Jason at Skate America. Jeremy beat Adam and Max at NHK Trophy. It's a mixed bag as far as using the fall scores/GP placements to predict Nationals placements.
 
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olympic

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meggonzo

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Not necessarily true. Entries for 4CCs are due on January 1, so US Figure Skating will likely nominate 3 entries and 3 alternates like they have in years past. Though I have no inside information, I suspect that Nathan, Adam, Jason, and Max would likely decline. If they go by season's best (senior scores), the six men who would be nominated after that would be Vincent, Alexei, Ross, Grant, Tim, and Sean.

Alex Johnson for 4CCs! :lynch:
 

jlai

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Considering there are 5 contenders for the O team, then there will be two who don't get to go, plus one more from the remaining men.
 

misskarne

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Congratulations to Max, who today graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Business magna cum laude (GPA 3.70-3.89) from UCCS! :cheer: :cheer:

He's posted some instagram stories from the ceremony, as did Angela Wang, who also tweeted about it.

EDIT: And USFS literally just tweeted about it also. ;)

So I might be wrong but I think that means his grades were really high, right? So he was getting great grades and being generally awesome on the ice as well. You go, Max. Kick all of the ass!
 

kwanette

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Congratulations to Max, who today graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Business magna cum laude (GPA 3.70-3.89) from UCCS! :cheer: :cheer:

He's posted some instagram stories from the ceremony, as did Angela Wang, who also tweeted about it.

EDIT: And USFS literally just tweeted about it also. ;)

So I might be wrong but I think that means his grades were really high, right? So he was getting great grades and being generally awesome on the ice as well. You go, Max. Kick all of the ass!


Just saw this on Twitter! That's awesome! Congrats, Max!
 

misskarne

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USFS congratulatory tweet!

A picture of Max in cap and gown thanks to USFS instagram!

And this cool article from UCCS website! I like this bit:

Aaron completed his bachelor’s degree in three years while most students take four or more years to complete a degree. He combined studies in finance with at least five hours daily on the ice with the goal of representing the U.S. in the 2018 Winter Olympics in PyeongChang.
...

Aaron combined a heavy course load with five to six hours of daily training. He took early morning, evening and summer classes, approaching each with the attitude “that a B was not an option.” He worked with academic advisers to help them understand the needs of top athletes who are UCCS students.

“I know skating can’t last forever,” the almost 25-year-old said. “When it comes time to retire, I wanted to have something that I can rely on. Studying finance was the right thing for me. When the time comes, I hope to work with professional athletes, including some of my buddies in the NHL, to help them manage their money so it can last.”
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

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Not necessarily true. Entries for 4CCs are due on January 1, so US Figure Skating will likely nominate 3 entries and 3 alternates like they have in years past. Though I have no inside information, I suspect that Nathan, Adam, Jason, and Max would likely decline. If they go by season's best (senior scores), the six men who would be nominated after that would be Vincent, Alexei, Ross, Grant, Tim, and Sean.

When the likes of Wagner, Nagasu, Flatt and Czinsy were most likely putting their focus on Vancouver, that reminded me of how Caroline Zhang, Amanda Dobbs, and Alexe Gilles made the Four Continents Team in 2010.
 

pairskatingfan

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Don't feel like doing the math and work, but... somebody should make a body of work profile for the top 5 men where the tier 1 scores are averaged at 100% of their worth, their scores at tier 2 competitions are averaged at 66% of their value, and the scores at tier 3 are averaged at 33% of the value. Would be a good way of looking at who has the advantages.
 
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