Pairs Discussion Thread 2017-18--"Two Skating as One"

Xela M

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No, it was not.



Most of S/K programs as of late have been fantastic. 2015-2016 free program, 2016-2017 SP and FS, this year's programs...

And V/T had the best set of programs of any pair in 2015-2016 season that frankly never got the credit they deserved.

So sticking with the topic, I don't think it's really Mozer. It's just that T/M have absolutely no expression or interpretation. They tried classical...didn't work. They tried whacky...didn't work...they tried light-hearted and fun...didn't work. Even Ksenia and Fedor's Chopin SP (which I thought was very nice), which was the first "classical" program they've really done, was MILES better even with the technical mistakes than T/M who you would think classical would be their style.

I agree.

And whilst the Jesus Christ Superstar program wasn't great (especially by Sochi) it wasn't exactly horror inducing - just empty. At the same time, V&T's SP was an absolute masterpiece.

In a different stratosphere to the 'panty drop'.
 

MAXSwagg

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I agree.

And whilst the Jesus Christ Superstar program wasn't great (especially by Sochi) it wasn't exactly horror inducing - just empty. At the same time, V&T's SP was an absolute masterpiece.

There is not even a hint of panty dropping.

True. Sochi was not as good. But it was fantastic and essentially perfect at that season's Skate America (which is where they got that highest score until Sui/Han a couple weeks ago). I thought their Bollywood SP was better than Masquerade Waltz. It was completely different...yet people didn't like that either. They said Masquerade Waltz was too generic and "cookie-cutter." But then they do Bollywood...and people said it was crap and they want Masquerade Waltz cookie-cutter. Wtf?
 

topaz

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@MAXSwagg we'll have to agree to disagree about Stolbova/Klimov programs. To me, there really isn't anything interesting about their programs this season in regards to choreography and musicality that differs from other programs they've done. The choreography in their Carmen long program is not distinctive enough that it could not be used to any other piece music. I don't any choreography in the Carmen long program that is distinctive to the character of carmen that they have NOT already used in other previous programs.

For the record I was not a fan of V/T JCS program either. I was a fan of the team but not their olympic long program.
 

MAXSwagg

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@MAXSwagg we'll have to agree to disagree about Stolbova/Klimov programs. To me, there really isn't anything interesting about their programs this season in regards to choreography and musicality that differs from other programs they've done. The choreography in their Carmen long program is not distinctive enough that it could not be used to any other piece music. I don't any choreography in the Carmen long program that is distinctive to the character of carmen that they have NOT already used in other previous programs.

For the record I was not a fan of V/T JCS program either. I was a fan of the team but not their olympic long program.

That's very, very unusual...
 

Amantide

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@MAXSwagg we'll have to agree to disagree about Stolbova/Klimov programs. To me, there really isn't anything interesting about their programs this season in regards to choreography and musicality that differs from other programs they've done. The choreography in their Carmen long program is not distinctive enough that it could not be used to any other piece music. I don't any choreography in the Carmen long program that is distinctive to the character of carmen that they have NOT already used in other previous programs.

I don't think any of the top Pairs this season have "WOW" programs tbh, except for Su&Han SP, maybe. For some reasons all the skaters, in all disciplines, go so conservative during the Oly season. I mean look at Dance, and for them the choreo is far more important. Go figure.

It's just that T/M have absolutely no expression or interpretation. They tried classical...didn't work. They tried whacky...didn't work...they tried light-hearted and fun...didn't work. Even Ksenia and Fedor's Debussy SP (which I thought was very nice), which was the first "classical" program they've really done, was MILES better even with the technical mistakes than T/M's Chopin FS who you would think classical would be their style.

I did like T&M SP from last season very much though.
 
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rfisher

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I'm :rofl: that a team with horrible programs, no expression, etc., etc. etc., have been so successful over the past two seasons. I guess all those different judging panels didn't get the memo.
 

Ka3sha

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I think that Stolbova/Klimov’s step sequence in the short is one of the best, if not the best, steps sequences this season. Both because it’s well choreographed and also because they have SS to die for :swoon:

I’m ok with their Carmen LP as well as long they land all their jumps and throws :saint:
It isn’t a masterpiece but it’s a great vehicle for them. And the music helps a lot.

Still my favourite Pairs programs this season are Sui/Han’s SP and Aliona/Brunos’s LP :)
 
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topaz

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I'm :rofl: that a team with horrible programs, no expression, etc., etc. etc., have been so successful over the past two seasons. I guess all those different judging panels didn't get the memo.

Well, it shouldn't. What we've seen from the judging panel and ijs over the last two years especially is that pcs marks appear to be tied into the TES score and GOE. Per judging panel T/M are comparable to Sui/Han in CH, PE, IN and TR.

2017 Rostelcom Cup FS scores PCS
http://skatingscores.com/2018/gprus/pairs/long/pcs

2017 Skate Canada FS Scores PCS
http://skatingscores.com/2018/gpcan/pairs/long/pcs
i.e James/Cipres FS pcs score was 70.63 vs Tarasova/Morosova FS pcs score was 74.58. Granted T/M should get higher pcs scores in SS but in TR, PE, CH and IN T/M should not be on average .40 better. But accoring the judges, they are.
T/M are beating every team except Sui/Han on average in all of the pcs marks, even S/M. T/M starting at the World Champs are receiving on the 2nd highest scores in pcs .
 

rfisher

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I think that Stolbova/Klimov’s step sequence in the short is one of the best, if not the best, steps sequences this season. Both because it’s well choreographed and also because they have SS to die for :swoon:

I’m ok with their Carmen LP as well as long they land all their jumps and throws :saint:
It isn’t a masterpiece but it’s a great vehicle for them. And the music helps a lot.

Still my favourite Pairs programs this season are Sui/Han’s SP and Aliona/Brunos’s LP :)
And, now that we know Bruno is going to the Os, I'm fine if they don't do as well as they can this week if his back is bothering him. I don't even care if they go to the GPF or not. I'm fine with Europeans and the Olympics where they will skate clean and it will be magical and the world will weep with joy.
 

Alilou

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Beverley Smith article about Stolbova/Klimov
https://bevsmithwrites.wordpress.com/2017/11/23/stolbova-and-klimov-fighting-to-get-back-to-the-top/
So yes, Stolbova and Klimov want to get to the top again, to win Grand Prix Final. Stolbova is a fierce competitor. “She is the kind of person who wants to win every time,” Zhovnirsky said. “Every time, every practice, every element. If it’s not perfect, she gets angry and upset. Sometimes, it’s not so easy for us.” Her coaches would tell her than an element she’s done is good. “No,” Stolbova will say. “Not good enough.” She’s angry at herself but also at others. And the gentle Klimov is first glance. “Fedor has to be perfect as well,” Zhovnirsky said.
Sounds just like the Susie we all know and love :)
 

Amantide

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Beverley Smith article about Stolbova/Klimov
https://bevsmithwrites.wordpress.com/2017/11/23/stolbova-and-klimov-fighting-to-get-back-to-the-top/

Sounds just like the Susie we all know and love :)

:lol:

Not always the best approach. I love her but I wish she could be more indulgent with herself sometimes. :)

Also, they’ve added an ambitious throw triple Lutz to their routine. They knew very well that the throw double Axels they were doing weren’t going to cut it if they wanted to make it to the top again. It’s like going from zero to 60 in a moment.

What is she talking here? What throw triple Lutz and throw double Axel?

Jokingly, somebody said she should have skated with Maxim Trankov, the 2014 Olympic pair champion with Tatiana Volosozhar. Zhovnirsky said they did skate together for a couple of months, but that was like mixing powerful explosives. They fought. Luckily, they both survived. Klimov is the calm to her fire.

:rofl:

I want a video of that. :biggrinbo
 
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Xela M

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Fine. One has SP and one LP, how does that make Pairs (plural) a WOW factor with programs? Lets face it, Oly season sucks.

Don't forget J&C's LP constumes - I mean I could watch that forever regardless of the programs :D that's poetry on ice right there :smokin:

To be fair, I can't say any single's programs this year are particularly exciting. My favourite is actually Zagitova's LP - there is something so fiery about it.
 

Amantide

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Don't forget J&C's LP constumes - I mean I could watch that forever regardless of the programs :D that's poetry on ice right there :smokin:

To be fair, I can't say any single's programs this year are particularly exciting. My favourite is actually Zagitova's LP - there is something so fiery about it.

At least with Men, Ladies and Pairs there is variety, whether they have great programs or not. It is dance that is killing me this season with 99% of them so cheesy and dull.
 

ssminnow

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Watching Skate America this past week, I was awestruck by Xiaoyu Yu. She has such a beautiful presence. Zhang is a mismatch for her, though I'm not sure that Jin is much better either. Her ideal partner IMO would have been an in-his-prime Tong Jian.
 

clairecloutier

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Savchenko/Massot announced that they'll return to last year's "That Man" SP for the Grand Prix Final. They will then decide later which short program to use for the Olympics.

http://www.sportschau.de/winterspor...-prix-finale-nagoya-savchenko-massot-100.html

The decision was made because Bruno is more comfortable with last year's short program. In their Europe on Ice interview last week, they said that it was Aliona who suggested this year's flamenco music, and that Bruno was initially skeptical, but agreed to try it. So I guess this decision doesn't come out of nowhere.
 

DDNatalia

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Savchenko/Massot announced that they'll return to last year's "That Man" SP for the Grand Prix Final. They will then decide later which short program to use for the Olympics.

http://www.sportschau.de/winterspor...-prix-finale-nagoya-savchenko-massot-100.html

The decision was made because Bruno is more comfortable with last year's short program. In their Europe on Ice interview last week, they said that it was Aliona who suggested this year's flamenco music, and that Bruno was initially skeptical, but agreed to try it. So I guess this decision doesn't come out of nowhere.

Hope they give the flamenco program more time, not 'give up' on it too soon.
 

whiteskates

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i usually don't like it when skaters keep their old programmes but S/M's short from last year was very good and really entertaining and I find myself rewatching it a lot.
 

ssminnow

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With everyone changing programs these days, I wish S/H would go back to their LP from last year. As GPF shows, if both they and S/M skate clean, judges prefer S/M's freeskate, as they should because Turandot is meh.
 

Jammers

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With everyone changing programs these days, I wish S/H would go back to their LP from last year. As GPF shows, if both they and S/M skate clean, judges prefer S/M's freeskate, as they should because Turandot is meh.
S/H lost because they screwed up their SP which they normally nail.
 

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