Harvey Weinstein megaproducer and executive ousted over sexual harassment

[screech]

Terry Crews was apparently asked by Russell Simmons to 'give the agent a pass' who groped him. Terry posted a screencap of the message Russell sent to him.

The behaviour by Hollywood bigwigs is nothing new - it's been going on for decades, but it's amazing how much is coming out all at once. And kind of ironic that one of the people who helped get things going is Ronan Farrow.

The response by most people, at least publicly has been great. A few have received backlash. For example, Lena Dunham and Jenny Konner who supported the (producer?) from Girls who was accused. Apparently due to this, some of Lena's biggest supporters (like co-star Andrew Rannells) have begun to un-follow her on social media.

In any case, I'm glad that there seems to be a bit of a reformation happening, with some of the accused losing their jobs. For the most part, nobody has surprised me much. But if we ever see a name like Tom Hanks mentioned I'm sure peoples heads would explode. Thankfully no mention of him!

The only negative I'm really seeing is there's a huge lack of 'innocent until proven guilty' happening. While I support all of the people coming forward, for most there has been a lack of evidence against the accused, at least shared with the public.

 

[skatingfan5]

The only negative I'm really seeing is there's a huge lack of 'innocent until proven guilty' happening. While I support all of the people coming forward, for most there has been a lack of evidence against the accused, at least shared with the public.

Unfortunately in many cases there would be no "evidence" like a witness who corroborates the accusation or some kind of correpondence record (emails, voicemails, social media pm, etc.). The most evidence many might have could be if they reported it to HR or law enforcement, or confided to someone.

 

[screech]

Unfortunately in many cases there would be no "evidence" like a witness who corroborates the accusation or some kind of correpondence record (emails, voicemails, social media pm, etc.). The most evidence many might have could be if they reported it to HR or law enforcement, or confided to someone.

That is very true, but the lack of 'innocent until proven guilty' may still turn out to be a problem at some point.

 

[Susan1]

It seems that, eventually; almost everyone with a "public persona" may join the ranks of those accused.

I said in another thread that there won't be any men left in Hollywood or DC (and all broadcasting media) if they keep firing and punishing all of them for something they did a long time ago. (And obviously I am on the side of the women who have been harassed or whatever!) The dotard is the only one who is getting away with it.

Edited to add - we have had three instances recently in my town and the one next to it of female teachers having relationships with their students. I seems like you hear more of that than male teachers and female students? I wonder if female executives, lawmakers and producers will be next on the chopping block?

 

[screech]

Armie Hammer is calling out the double standard against Nate Parker and Casey Affleck last year.

I agree there was a complete double standard, though the crimes of which they were accused were very different.

Also, Jeremy Piven had offered to take a polygraph test to prove his innocence after being accused. He passed all questions on the test.
For what it's worth, lie detector tests are no longer considered absolute evidence. Ted Bundy passed tests. But in any case, good for him for being proactive, and I'm happy to hear that he passed.

 

[MacMadame]

That is very true, but the lack of 'innocent until proven guilty' may still turn out to be a problem at some point.

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal concept though. It doesn't really apply to what I decide to believe about a public figure.

 

[aftershocks]

Excerpts of Ashley Judd's interview with Diane Sawyer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1xPeO4rCKg

Oprah Winfrey on CBS This Morning about a month ago discussing the Harvey Weinstein revelations and resulting impact:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuOmwbgOsm4 Scroll to 5:50

 

[skatesindreams]

I also am concerned about lack of due process and "assumption of guilt".

Some of Charlie Rose's colleagues react:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/21/media/charlie-rose-norah-odonnell-gayle-king-cbs/index.html

 

[MsZem]

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal concept though. It doesn't really apply to what I decide to believe about a public figure.

I agree, and as others have noted, it's a legal standard, not an electoral one.

That said, I feel that we owe it to those who come forward to listen with an open mind and be supportive, but I am uncomfortable with the suggestion that allegations should automatically be believed. Not because I believe women (and men) are lying about sexual harassment and abuse, but because human memory is fallible and time can color our recollection and interpretation of past events.

My default is to assume that those who come forward are telling their truth, but it's important to have corroborating evidence before taking any irreversible steps. That doesn't have to mean signed confessions and DNA evidence, but also multiple accusers whose stories converge, accounts from family and friends who heard about the events at the time they occurred, or of course any kind of physical evidence. In other words, the kind of things good investigative reporting has turned up about many of the men who are currently being accused of sexual harassment and abuse.

 

[PeterG]

Melissa Gilbert Accuses Oliver Stone Of Sexual Harassment: “It Was Humiliating And Horrid”

This is the second accusation against Stone. From the article:

Gilbert’s accusation against Stone is not the first. Former Playboy model Carrie Stevens claimed that the director groped her during a party. Stone has yet to respond these allegations.

I saw another article where a third woman was mentioned, but I can't find the article now. It mentioned an actress from Korea, I believe, but I could have the wrong country there so if someone else has other info, please correct me.

Hollywood Terror: Director David O. Russell’s History of Groping and On-Set Abuse

We've heard of Russell being difficult on the set with actors, but this article compiles so many different scenarios, I question whether I'd go see any movie that he's a part of...

 

[VGThuy]

Speaking of Oliver Stone, Amy Schumer had a comedy set where she said she met Michelle Kwan and Stone came up in conversation somehow and Kwan mentioned Stone having this Asian girl fetish that creeped her out.

 

[Tinami Amori]

.. but there was a message sent by "progressive elites in the arts world" in the 60's, which came into full bloom in the 70's: break the middle class sexual taboos; women are held back by morals in their sexual expressions; they don't know what they are missing; they must be pushed into sexual discoveries; once they feel it, they will love it...

Jane Fonda talked about it years earlier, referring to Roger Vadim and others in her life.... He while married to Fonda railroaded her into having sex with other men, and women..
https://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/jane-fondas-threesome-heartache-7272398.html

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/vicky-tiel/the-sexual-revolution-sta_b_3697839.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...veals-sexually-abused-raped-article-1.2987004

This is not an excuse for "men's behavior", but certainly a question mark to what "progressives are pushing on society".

 

[VGThuy]

I think we're always looking for that balance. I have no doubt many "progressive-minded" men (though I always question just how progressive they are or if they are only progressive when it comes to being able to have more and different kinds of sex) were using the sexual revolution in a way that was exploitative and predatory.

That said, moving away from putting a woman's virginity on a pedestal and making her entire worth be tied to that idea of youth and purity (connected to controlling women's reproductive rights) and allowing women to explore sexual freedom was something I think we can promote while also educating all people about power dynamics, exploitation, and consent. We're also learning more about how sex (tied to power imbalances and exploitation) affects youth and those more vulnerable and what it does to them while they are emotionally and psychologically maturing, so we need to take what we learn there while also take what we're learning about how sex shaming is another way of keeping women in their place. The U.S. is a weird country because we really are puritanical when it comes to our ideas of sex, but there's also a lot of sexploitation going on and we're still all very obsessed with sex anyway. I think maybe all of that may goes hand-in-hand with the way women are conditioned (don't be a slut but don't be a prude...) and why many predators can take advantage so easily and the shame victims feel afterwards which all contributes to the predatory behavior continuing.

TL;DR: We're still in the sexual revolution and we still have a lot to learn, but it's a revolution I think we need.

 

[VGThuy]

John Lasseter of Pixar now:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/...ave-of-absence?utm_term=.vryrXVgee#.gtN7GZ1bb

Rashida Jones apparently left Toy Story 4 due to unwanted advances made by Lasseter.

 

[PeterG]

Julianna Margulies Recalls Alleged Encounter With Steven Seagal: 'I Saw His Gun'

Portia de Rossi Accuses Steven Seagal of Sexual Misconduct

Here's Steven Seagal groping a 16-year-old Katherine Heigl

Jenny McCarthy Recounts Alleged Steven Seagal Harassment, Threat

All My Children actor (Eva LaRue) accuses Steven Seagal of sexually harassing her

Wow, Seagal's career is really going to take a hit now...

.. but there was a message sent by "progressive elites in the arts world" in the 60's, which came into full bloom in the 70's: break the middle class sexual taboos; women are held back by morals in their sexual expressions; they don't know what they are missing; they must be pushed into sexual discoveries; once they feel it, they will love it...

Yes, but are these really progressive-minded people, or creeps who hide under that label? Similar to how someone like Fred Phelps, who does not represent Christianity, but uses that cloak to have spread hate.

But I'm really responding to your post because something Grace Jones talked about in her autobiography, which I'm reading right now. She said something about how the sexual revolution of the 60's and 70's ended up being not really about freedom for all, but opportunities for (certain types of) men to have whatever kind of sex they wanted, with whoever they wanted...and have as much of that as they wanted.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Yes, but are these really progressive-minded people, or creeps who hide under that label? Similar to how someone like Fred Phelps, who does not represent Christianity, but uses that cloak to have spread hate.

But I'm really responding to your post because something Grace Jones talked about in her autobiography, which I'm reading right now. She said something about how the sexual revolution of the 60's and 70's ended up being not really about freedom for all, but opportunities for (certain types of) men to have whatever kind of sex they wanted, with whoever they wanted...and have as much of that as they wanted.

I love Grace Jones, she was my "image/style" role model in those times, and thank you for letting me know she has a autobiography out.

Given what she said, she is absolutely right! And, while realizing this, i am sure anyone who pinched her butt, got a boot in the face...
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net..._jones.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20121120175257
http://s3.amazonaws.com/factmag-ima...2017/01/dangereusement-votre-1985-616x440.jpg

But all the same.... the message from those times that "a woman does not know what she wants until she tries it, and sometimes you need to make her try it" was very clear, in many films, books and TV shows, even the most "family friendly ones". i've listed some examples earlier, but here are few..... "you're not cool", "you don't know what you're missing even if you say no i will brake your middle-class values and make you try it...."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwLWM_i2sLA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76FghI7HGyM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOoFOB0r50A

 

[snoopy]

I didn't read all those links but none of the ones I did read said anything close to saying it was a good thing if "you have to force her into" to see if she likes it. The first Jane Fonda link says Fonda was coerced and hated it. Not that she condoned such coercion.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I didn't read all those links but none of the ones I did read said anything close to saying it was a good thing if "you have to force her into" to see if she likes it. The first Jane Fonda link says Fonda was coerced and hated it. Not that she condoned such coercion.

The links from "rocky horror" basically show "mild form of rape".

This segment of "Hair" is sexual harassment. Before opening this link, imagine a man coming up to a woman he does not know and starts making sexual comments about sexual acts. Imagine it is Bill O'Reilly saying it to one of his secretaries while passing her table (that actually happened.... he walked buy and said "sweet chocolate", made risque suggestions, etc.)

Now this..... except the "men" are piece of dirty trash (hippies) teaching "cool lessons" the upper class rich women.... How effing progressive... (so thought the progressives....). It's cool for poor street boy to harass rich women, because they are oh just so stuck up....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmXSDGTuVqg

 

[ballettmaus]

I also am concerned about lack of due process and "assumption of guilt".

Normally, I'm inclined to believe the accusations. I have a harder time wrapping my mind around it if it's someone I respect and/or like the work of but usually, once one woman comes forward, others follow and it seems pretty clear cut.

That said, I never just believe accusations because accusations are made. Currently, I have a very hard time believing the accusations against Franken, for example. Not because he's a Democrat but because a) I have seen the video and the video does not look like sexual harrassment to me (if that is sexual harrassment, wouldn't that mean that from now on, each unscripted kiss or gesture or touch that an actor feels should be in that scene and that they improvise or that only one actor knows about because of the surprise factor is sexual harrassment? And if not, what's the difference?) and b) I've seen so many statements in support of Franken. The latest is a statement of 36 women who have worked for him. http://www.politicususa.com/2017/11/21/36-women-worked-snl-sign-statement-support-al-franken.html

Yes, the photo still remains. So, the question is, did he momentarily misplace his brain or is Tweeden lying and she was not asleep? I'm not sure we will ever know.
As for the second accuser, it's pretty simple to say what she said now, when a Senator is bound to not remember each and every single photo and there is no one who could defend the Senator. I know that I probably wouldn't be smiling as brightly into the camera if someone pulled me closer and held me tighter than I wanted to and were uncomfortable. I think my smile/facial expression would reflect that. And since I have my doubts about the first accuser, I have even more doubts about the second one. (And for the record, when Trump was accused of walking into a teenager's dressing room at one of the pageants, I was waiting for the story to be discredited because I'm that much of a cynic and thought the timing was too much of a coincidence. Not that it mattered that it does seem to be true...)

Either way, it doesn't seem like Franken deserves to be lumped in with the likes of Moore, Weinstein and Trump. I also don't think that Franken deserves having to resign over this when Trump gets to all but endorse a pedophile, his sexual harrassment allegations remain ignored and he remains in office.

What I hate the most is that there are women who make accusations that are not true, for various reasons. They are part of the reason why it is so difficult for victims of harrassment and abuse to be heard and believed and I don't think that anyone who has gone through harrassment and/or abuse deserves to be doubted.

 

[PeterG]

Yes, the photo still remains. So, the question is, did he momentarily misplace his brain or is Tweeden lying and she was not asleep? I'm not sure we will ever know.
As for the second accuser, it's pretty simple to say what she said now, when a Senator is bound to not remember each and every single photo and there is no one who could defend the Senator. I know that I probably wouldn't be smiling as brightly into the camera if someone pulled me closer and held me tighter than I wanted to and were uncomfortable. I think my smile/facial expression would reflect that. And since I have my doubts about the first accuser, I have even more doubts about the second one. (And for the record, when Trump was accused of walking into a teenager's dressing room at one of the pageants, I was waiting for the story to be discredited because I'm that much of a cynic and thought the timing was too much of a coincidence. Not that it mattered that it does seem to be true...)

As for that photo, I've considered looking through my old high school yearbooks and to see how many photos like that are in there. It's just a stupid guy prank to pull (meaning making it look like you're doing something offensive, but not actually doing it). "Look how provocative/naughty I am...ha ha!" Definitely a silly/stupid school boy thing to do, but from the small two place I grew up in, a LOT of boys/guys/men would be considered sexual predators by the way some people are viewing Franken right now.

 

[ballettmaus]

As for that photo, I've considered looking through my old high school yearbooks and to see how many photos like that are in there. It's just a stupid guy prank to pull (meaning making it look like you're doing something offensive, but not actually doing it). "Look how provocative/naughty I am...ha ha!" Definitely a silly/stupid school boy thing to do, but from the small two place I grew up in, a LOT of boys/guys/men would be considered sexual predators by the way some people are viewing Franken right now.

It is a thought that crossed my mind, that it looks like something spoiled, rich (caucasian) fraternity brothers would do. That doesn't make it any better though. It's not funny and no one should take photos like that.

 

[PeterG]

It is a thought that crossed my mind, that it looks like something spoiled, rich (caucasian) fraternity brothers would do. That doesn't make it any better though. It's not funny and no one should take photos like that.

Agreed, but I'm talking about high school in the late 70's/early 80's. That kind of behaviour would never be considered unacceptable. If you spoke against it, people would have laughed at you. And then said what a downer you were and to get yourself a sense of humour. I'm sure others grew up in this kind of environment. Attitudes have changed and people doing something which was considered acceptable are now being called on it. I'm taking only about the "silly photos" aspect of things. A guy having a photo taken like that in the 70's and 80's would have been considered a "cut-up". Now for the same photo, some are saying he's a sexual deviant.

 

[Japanfan]

That said, moving away from putting a woman's virginity on a pedestal and making her entire worth be tied to that idea of youth and purity (connected to controlling women's reproductive rights) and allowing women to explore sexual freedom was something I think we can promote while also educating all people about power dynamics, exploitation, and consent.

I was among those in the 70s who enjoyed the sexual liberties accorded by the pill and legal abortion. However, I learned nothing about power dynamics, exploitation and consent, and think that was true of most of my generation. It wasn't something schools were equipped to address, and parents didn't quite know how to deal with it either.

Unfortunately, many young women who enjoyed those sexual liberties were also hurt by them. To a large part this was because we were conditioned to a certain extent to equate sex with love, which created a conflict of sorts when we took advantage of sexual liberties.

 

[Buzz]

Rashida Jones has denied earlier reports that both she and writing partner Will McCormack left Toy Story 4 over unwanted advances from Pixar boss John Lasseter.

Jones instead said they left over "philosophical differences", and asserted their exit was over the fact that they believed women and people of colour did not have an "equal creative voice" at Pixar.

http://variety.com/2017/film/news/rashida-jones-john-lasseter-toy-story-4-1202621286/

 

[PeterG]

Third Woman Accuses Ed Westwick of Sexual Assault

Westwick denies all accusations, but...well, read the article.

A Third Woman Just Accused Jeremy Piven of Sexual Assault

The article includes details about an interview uncovered about the harassment of a fourth woman as well.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Just adding this one into the pot. There is an Australian TV presenter Don Burke who yesterday was accused of numerous incidents of sexual harrassment and inappropriate behaviour. He was host of a very popular show in the 80s and 90s called Burke's Backyard. He has denied everything, saying it is a witch hunt against him. Problem with his arguments is the media outlets that broke the story would have covered off every legality surrounding this.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-28/don-burke-accused-of-crude-remarks-by-susie-oneill/9199560

In light of the Harvery Weinstein situation, a journalist called Tracey Spicer asked for people to submit stories about sexual harrassment in the media in Australia which is why this has come out. Apparently there are many more men who have claims against them which will be revealed in future.

 

[ballettmaus]

Two opinions about Franken that I thought were an interesting read/point of view.

https://medium.com/@SIIPCampaigns/a-survivors-defense-of-al-franken-ea994c5bbc9a

https://democracyguardian.com/al-franken-the-obvious-setup-and-liberals-took-the-bait-5f3515d379a0

 

[gkelly]

http://www.vulture.com/2017/11/harvey-weinstein-now-faces-sex-trafficking-charges.html

 

[ilovepaydays]

Angela Landsbury is certainly a gem!

 

[PeterG]

Angela Landsbury is certainly a gem!

So does this mean that as a gay man, I could say that Justin Hartley was asking for it?