Harvey Weinstein megaproducer and executive ousted over sexual harassment

Tinami Amori

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So 'Last Tango' went off my list of all-time faves.
This is not "at you" but in regard to the situation you described with "Last Tango in Paris".

Do we really need “current trends in society” to direct us how to feel about various situations and interaction between people or events?

When watching “Last Tango in Paris” back in the 70's and since, would not most women cringe and feel uncomfortable about the “erotic scenes” in this movie, without any need for “PC liberal attitudes”? Would not a woman automatically and instinctively thought of defense and how she would react in such situation?

Going further out on a limb, how can a woman in general not cringe at the sign of Marlon Brando on a screen regardless of how talented he is as an actor, when in other films his character rapes women and uses violence in general quite frequently (Street Car Named Desire, The Fugitive Kind, etc.)

Or back in the 70's we subscribed to another “PC liberal theory de jour”? This is an Art Movie! He is such a unique talent! It is time to do away with sexual inhibitions imposed by religion and snobby society of the 50’s and 60’s..

Was is not “uncool” to be “sexually inhibited” back then in the 1970’s, to be a “square”, to not want to experiment with all types and forms of “sex”?

Was not it cool to be perverse and not just that in your own life but to shove it in the face of conservatives how cool it is? Hair – Sodomy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzwGfP98vGM

Were there not magazines on every newspaper stand in front window displays like “Hustler, “Cheery”, “Playboy” and sexy costumes of “Playboy bunnies” and romantics of the “Playboy mansion with 20 women for 1 man”?

Was it not “oh so cool” to watch movies like Night Porter, Story of O, Emanuelle, 9-1/2 weeks, Rocky Horror Picture Show, etc., which advertised “breaking the sexual inhibitions even if it requires some degree of violence against the moralistic inhibited one, who otherwise will stay stuck in the past and ruin the progress of the cool liberal ones”?

On certain level, the lawyers who, claim that Cosby and Weinstein are products of the sexual revolution of the 70’s, have a point, not as an excuse for their actions, but as an explanation of the “helpful culture” in which their perversions flourished.

The best example is the Love Story of the Century, Luke and Laura @ General Hospital. A piece of street trash (from the wrong side of the tracks, whose sister is a whore-turned-nurse) called Luke wants Laura, he rapes her just before her wedding to an Evil Rich Boy (rich boys should not get girls who are wanted by trash-boys, redistribution! Rape the girl and she’ll see the light). After the rape Laura learns she really loves Luke and wanted him all alone….

So, after 40 years the “Liberals and Progressives” screaming “free sex for all, do it! take it! see movies and plays about it!”, they are pissed at its worst outcomes? And now they REALIZE how wrong those “art movies are”?

Well, we now have “Survivor” and “Big Brother” with all its ugly rules, and “Hunger Games” movies, and all sorts of stuff that we may question 20-30-40 years from now.

Gees…. Now “Last Tango in Paris” is the epitome of misogyny and not a cinematographic PC masterpiece which breaks sexual taboos and inhibitions.. but according to PC-progressives it was not 40 years ago.
:D
 

Japanfan

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25,532
Timani I'm not quite sure what point you're making in the post above, or if there is one main point?

Do we really need “current trends in society” to direct us how to feel about various situations and interaction between people or events?

I strongly believe in independent and critical thinking, and that one should always question authority as well as prevailing points of view. To quote one of my favorite fridge magnets: Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

OTOH, what is known as the collective conscience can also spread an awareness of things previously not considered or even thought of, and that can be a force for good. For example, child labor and the treatment of women as property have been very acceptable in the past (still are, in certain places).

When watching “Last Tango in Paris” back in the 70's and since, would not most women cringe and feel uncomfortable about the “erotic scenes” in this movie, without any need for “PC liberal attitudes”? Would not a woman automatically and instinctively thought of defense and how she would react in such situation?

I did not feel that way back in the 70s and don't know how other women felt at the time, or how female film reviewers responded to the film. However I don't think those who classified it as obscene had the dignity of Maria Schneider and her character in mind.

Going further out on a limb, how can a woman in general not cringe at the sign of Marlon Brando on a screen regardless of how talented he is as an actor, when in other films his character rapes women and uses violence in general quite frequently (Street Car Named Desire, The Fugitive Kind, etc.)

I don't know, but Brando was a superstar and seen by many as a very handsome man. Many women adored him and flocked to him.

Was is not “uncool” to be “sexually inhibited” back then in the 1970’s, to be a “square”, to not want to experiment with all types and forms of “sex”?

Were there not magazines on every newspaper stand in front window displays like “Hustler, “Cheery”, “Playboy” and sexy costumes of “Playboy bunnies” and romantics of the “Playboy mansion with 20 women for 1 man”?

On certain level, the lawyers who, claim that Cosby and Weinstein are products of the sexual revolution of the 70’s, have a point, not as an excuse for their actions, but as an explanation of the “helpful culture” in which their perversions flourished.

I don't agree with this. There have always been men like Cosby and Weinstein who take advantage of women and abuse them, especially when there is a power imbalance.

It comes at least in part from a sense of male entitlement, which does not require the help of a culture, as it has long been embedded or encoded within cultures.

As to Hugh Hefner, he was just another one of them and took full advantage of the sexual revolution to serve his own ends and the ends of other wealthy men. IMO.

And magazines like 'Hustler' and 'Playboy' catered entirely to men.

Well, we now have “Survivor” and “Big Brother” with all its ugly rules, and “Hunger Games” movies, and all sorts of stuff that we may question 20-30-40 years from now.

That's how it goes - time moves on, we look at the past and see things we did not see at the time, and then may amend our views of events, values, and beliefs.

Gees…. Now “Last Tango in Paris” is the epitome of misogyny and not a cinematographic PC masterpiece which breaks sexual taboos and inhibitions.. but according to PC-progressives it was not 40 years ago.
:D

Don't see the relevance of the laughing gremlin. And I think the change in viewpoint is good - though again, I don't recall reviews of the film at the time. Some may have seen it as misogynistic at the time.
 
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PeterG

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38 accuse writer-director James Toback of sexual harassment

Thirty-one of the women spoke on the record including Louise Post, who is a guitarist and vocalist for the band Veruca Salt, As the World Turns actress Terri Conn and actress Echo Danon, who worked on the set of his film Black and White.

"Everyone wants to work, so they put up with it," Danon told the Times. "That's why I put up with it. Because I was hoping to get another job."
 

cocotaffy

Fetchez la vache... mais fetchez la vache !
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And to make it even better here is what happened to Asia Argento in her own country for being one of the first to speak out about Weinstein. I don't know about Italian society enough, maybe some of you could give us some insights but this sound so backward. There's still a lot of work to do to see mentalities evolve.
 

ribbon

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And to make it even better here is what happened to Asia Argento in her own country for being one of the first to speak out about Weinstein. I don't know about Italian society enough, maybe some of you could give us some insights but this sound so backward. There's still a lot of work to do to see mentalities evolve.
As much as I adore Italy, they really are backwards on women's rights when it comes to sexuality. There's a youtube interview with Monica Bellucci and the interviewer clearly sees her as an object. She's used to it, and either ignores or politely responds to his advances. The audience is thrilled, and the Italians I know, even women, find this interview so charming. When I lived there during the Berlusconi years, the weather reports were either done by men in navy uniform or women in skimpy club wear. And, Berlusconi, like Trump, got many men laughing at his sexist comments and actions as simply speaking the truth and living every man's fantasy. There were men who were disgusted but they rarely if ever spoke out. A shocking number of women shrugged it off as typical and not important and blamed underage girls for being too naive or worse yet whorish at his parties.

There is a huge emphasis on respecting your mother for Italian boys, but sadly little to no attention on how to treat your girlfriend, wife, or female stranger.
 
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screech

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Matt Damon has admitted that Gwyneth Paltrow told former boyfriend Ben Affleck about what happened, who shared it with Matt. So he knew about her situation. He says that he never spoke to her about it, but knew she and Weinstein had come to some sort of agreement, and he worked with both of them on The Talented Mr. Ripley and that Weinstein seemed to treat her very respectfully.

He also says that he knew Weinstein was a womanizer, but didn't know he was such a predator (which seems to contradict his second-hand knowledge about what happened with Gwyneth).
 

Tinami Amori

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20,156
Timani I'm not quite sure what point you're making in the post above, or if there is one main point?
I do intend to make a point, and points... :lol:. But it would be a long piece on LTIP, Brando as an actor and person (who sex. mol. his own daughter), Bertolucci and Pasolini's influence and grotesque, other trends, forms, etc..

....... was it necessary to make the rape in LTIP that graphic? or was a director self-indulgent? and do we need "opinions of the progressive press" to see right there and then that is it NOT art, no matter what they write ... and would not a woman, any woman, cringe when seeing it, and instinctively think of resisting and fighting?

......and many films, plays, TV shows where "progressives" where trying to break "the conservative morals" with "sexual explosion" with a message "the woman is bound by old conservative morals, and in order to make her see the light, you need to force her to have an experience..... and THEN she'll know what's she is missing".... Well, Weinstein and Crosby and Hefner, and others are "bad outcomes" of that "progressive trend"..

When 2 main Soap Operas in USA (GH and GL) make "rape" a prequel to a Big Love between the main characters, which is carried as a Romance of the Century by "loving female viewers" for 30 years..... Luke rapes Laura..... and shortly after Laura realizes she wanted him all alone, and was just holding back.... and they get married and break up and marry again....
two weeks after rape.. http://www.liketotally80s.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/luke-and-laura-at-the-wedding.jpg
20 years after rape... https://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/lukelauraagain.jpg

still.... the Love Story of the century.... that is sick! I used to do media planning for "Hill's Brothers Coffee" at the time GH was popular. The rape scene upset me so much, i refused to place ads with local ABC during GH (2 PM day time prime)..... but it was OK for the whole F-ing US of A to have rape become a Love Affair.... and now people are complaining!
 
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VGThuy

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I read that some time in I think the 90s, they made Laura confront Luke about the rape because attitudes about that changed and people started thinking the origin of their romance was really sick. That said, I think that relationship is still touted as one of the greatest soap opera romances.
 

Tinami Amori

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Oh good..... better late than never.....

Anything similar excuse-mes for few couples on these? There are viewers' ratings for these episodes, and they are high...
Guiding Light:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HXkRIyQlpI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npt05nUtqYg

OLTL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1xGoj1Qn3w

Santa Barbara
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35Ve-KCBOyU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdRAn1sw5ZM

Eastenders
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRpVXIPbISo
 

VGThuy

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41,020
Oh good..... better late than never.....

Anything similar excuse-mes for few couples on these? There are viewers' ratings for these episodes, and they are high...
Guiding Light:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HXkRIyQlpI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npt05nUtqYg

OLTL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1xGoj1Qn3w

Santa Barbara
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35Ve-KCBOyU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdRAn1sw5ZM

Eastenders
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRpVXIPbISo

I don't know anything about the above shows, characters, or scenes, but did any of the above couples have a Luke and Laura thing where the victim realized she was in love with her rapist and wanted to be with him after the incident? Either way, it sort of goes to the point of rape portrayals on tv and film and where does the line get drawn where it's bringing awareness to a real-world situation and where does it just become an overused storyline where it seems women are often shown as victims of sexual assault. At least it goes along with the fact that most sexual assaults happen between people who know each other.
 

Tinami Amori

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20,156
I don't know anything about the above shows, characters, or scenes, but did any of the above couples have a Luke and Laura thing where the victim realized she was in love with her rapist and wanted to be with him after the incident?
Not to the level of "Luke and Laura" fame and praise, but some of these male characters in other shows were not harshly penalized and eventually evolved into "good guys" and some interacted with their victims (later in the plots) as if nothing happened. My concern is "public's interest to see such scenes" as part of entertainment.
 

VGThuy

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Not to the level of "Luke and Laura" fame and praise, but some of these male characters in other shows were not harshly penalized and eventually evolved into "good guys" and some interacted with their victims (later in the plots) as if nothing happened. My concern is "public's interest to see such scenes" as part of entertainment.

Oh geez louise. Maybe soap operas live in a different world where restorative justice is common and communities are more into redemption...for male perpetrators of sexual assault only. I guess often times the perpetrators are played by popular/good looking actors so they can't just get rid of them. What does that say about the American viewing audience, I wonder. Explains a lot about American culture as a whole.
 

Tinami Amori

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20,156
Oh geez louise.
well.... it is part of "social message and influence". If public thinks something is "interesting and entertaining" the "vendors" will provide it. When one sees something "even bad and ugly" time after time as part of "regular entertainment" one becomes desensitized and to some degree sees it as "norm".
 

Scrufflet

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A friend of a friend did her master's thesis in communications on portrayals of sexual assault in soap operas.
Now that would be an interesting read. Point of interest. Years after playing Laura (of Luke and Laura fame), Genie Francis acted on Y & R and insisted on playing someone who was a strong woman, not a victim.
 

Desperado

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Now that would be an interesting read. Point of interest. Years after playing Laura (of Luke and Laura fame), Genie Francis acted on Y & R and insisted on playing someone who was a strong woman, not a victim.
Sadly, IIRC, they didn’t quite give her what she wanted and the last days of her character were not very respectful.
 

Xela M

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...
I don't know, but Brando was a superstar and seen by many as a very handsome man. Many women adored him and flocked to him.
...

Off topic, but I'm one of those women! I still think (young) Brando was one of the most attractive men that ever lived. And there has never been a sexier role than Marlon's Stanley Kowalski in "A Streetcar Named Desire".
 

Scrufflet

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Sadly, IIRC, they didn’t quite give her what she wanted and the last days of her character were not very respectful.
I can't recall any of it to be honest. Wouldn't it be nice if SOs would break with convention now and then and have some tough, interesting women?
 

snoopy

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Recently, Orange is the new black had a storyline where one of the female prisoners was raped by a guard and then resumed a romantic relationship with him. I thought that it was interesting coming from female producer, Jenji Kohan on a show that breaks a lot of other barriers wrt female actresses. They did talk about and discussed the gray (fade into black) areas of humans as the character forgave the guy. But I was still surprised of this plot twist given this particular set of players.
 

skatingguy

decently
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Recently, Orange is the new black had a storyline where one of the female prisoners was raped by a guard and then resumed a romantic relationship with him. I thought that it was interesting coming from female producer, Jenji Kohan on a show that breaks a lot of other barriers wrt female actresses. They did talk about and discussed the gray (fade into black) areas of humans as the character forgave the guy. But I was still surprised of this plot twist given this particular set of players.
I've never been a regular viewer of Orange is the New Black, but I've watched parts of seasons here and there. That story line seems like a real lost opportunity to talk about a real issue in Women's prisons - abuse by male guards. It's a situation where the power imbalance could not be greater.
 

ilovepaydays

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Political reporter Mark Halperin has been accused of sexual harassment by five women who used to work in the same organization as him. I believe that at least two more women have come forward since this original story was published yesterday.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/25/media/mark-halperin-sexual-harassment-allegations/index.html

I used to really respect his work as a journalist :(

Mark Halperin has just tweeted a pretty lengthy statement in response to the allegations.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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And CNN just posted a story with more details. This "pushing women unexpectedly" stuff sounds like the Jian Ghomeshi assaults in Canada.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/27/media/mark-halperin-new-accusations/index.html

ETA: and now more accusers, who don't work at ABC despite his statement that his behavior was only a problem there:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/new-accuser-serial-harasser-mark-halperin-targeted-college-girls-too
 
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PeterG

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Jay42

Between the click of the light
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Comedian/Actress Aisling Bea tweeted this earlier today about Spacey.

ETA: MacMadame I've seen stuff online about Spacey being in the glass closet as long as I've been using the internet.
 

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