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Foolhardy Ham Lint

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I don't remember this movie but here is some music from it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKBDe3OxWWw

Gosh, this beautiful piece brings back memories. The last team I remember skating to it was a West German couple, Petra Born and Rainer Schonborn, in 1985 at the World Championships. Click below for their free skate from the event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfrrftRfAek

They reminded me of both Nathalie Péchalat / Fabian Bourzat and Gabriella Papadakis / Guillaume Cizeron.
 

VGThuy

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I may be the only one, but I liked Karen's Carmen.......

I think there was something that looked really unfinished with it, and I really had doubts that her and her team would have been able to fill it out better. That said, Chen's biggest issue to me (other than her toe loop on the end of her 3/3 and her consistency) is that all of her LPs looked like outlines of a program rather than a real program. For someone who I feel cares about artistry and musical intepretation, I find that to be really glaring. That's why I feel that after this season, she really needs to find a choreographer just so she can learn more dance and movement and program construction vocabulary and learn how to pace the choreography of a program effectively. All the best choreographers had to learn from someone, and she should too.
 

Cleo1782

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I think there was something that looked really unfinished with it, and I really had doubts that her and her team would have been able to fill it out better. That said, Chen's biggest issue to me (other than her toe loop on the end of her 3/3 and her consistency) is that all of her LPs looked like outlines of a program rather than a real program. For someone who I feel cares about artistry and musical intepretation, I find that to be really glaring. That's why I feel that after this season, she really needs to find a choreographer just so she can learn more dance and movement and program construction vocabulary and learn how to pace the choreography of a program effectively. All the best choreographers had to learn from someone, and she should too.

You are probably right. Her tech issues were more glaring to me than the program. I also found it strange she went with 2 tango/latin style programs. There is a spark about Karen that I think she can sell anything, but I would probably have to re-watch the program again. Seeing it live, the tech errors bothered me a lot more. But I have odd taste. I hear people ragging on Katelyn Osmonds Black Swan and I loved it, so who knows?
 

Cleo1782

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People who believe that USFSA wouldn't use that team medal to give her a bye if she was ready are not living in reality. They have a LOT invested in her!

Right? I posted before, but I highly doubt the USFSA would be like sorry Gracie-no bye for you if she was ready. I mean seriously. Although, it has been clarified that her team medal gives her a bye. Unfortunately, I don't think she will use it as she needs this time to heal.
 

Sylvia

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I also found it strange she went with 2 tango/latin style programs.
That wasn't the original intention... remember Carmen was choreographed not long before Karen debuted it at Glacier Falls in late July.

I just posted about Karen's Carmen in the Programs/Choreographers thread as well: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...nd-choreographers.101017/page-95#post-5155785
Karen Chen wrote back in July (before she debuted her programs at Glacier Falls): "At first I was skeptical, but I really feel that I could make this special and interpret it my way so that it would be my own version of Carmen."

My guess is that Karen tweeted yesterday "time to ... trust my instincts" because she had hoped to convince herself and overcome her initial skepticism that she could make Carmen her own after competing it a few times... which apparently didn't happen.

I liked the contrast between her two competitive programs last year and am glad she appears to be headed in that direction again.
 
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Cleo1782

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That wasn't the original intention... remember Carmen was choreographed not long before Karen debuted it at Glacier Falls in late July.

Original intention or not, I thought it was odd, but it didn't bother me. I liked the program. I certainly wasn't trying to disparage her in regards to her program. And in an Olympic year it's a little disconcerting to just throw things together on the fly.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
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People who believe that USFSA wouldn't use that team medal to give her a bye if she was ready are not living in reality. They have a LOT invested in her!
I, for one, hope that the USFSA does not try to use the team medal as criteria for Gracie. They have had three years to clarify this issue. I also hope that Gracie does not try to apply for a bye. I cannot imagine the pressure that would put on her.
 

GullyGirl84

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Are people really expecting Gracie competing at nationals to be even a remote possibility at this point? To me, this bye discussion is pointless. I commend Gracie for her bravery in being so candid about her struggles, and I hope that she comes back next year, even though she had talked about retiring after this cycle (though if she never comes back, nothing to be ashamed of, and we should celebrate what she has been able to accomplish).
 

Cleo1782

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I, for one, hope that the USFSA does not try to use the team medal as criteria for Gracie. They have had three years to clarify this issue. I also hope that Gracie does not try to apply for a bye. I cannot imagine the pressure that would put on her.

Once again, the chances of her applying for a bye are slim. But you don't think she deserves one if she feels ready? I am sure the USFSA would have a few monitoring sessions before just giving it to her. Let's be real: she is 10 times better than any athlete that get 4th at sectionals. And no disrespect to them (I used fall into that category), but if she gets a bye she's not stealing anyone's spot.
 

Sylvia

TBD
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Are people really expecting Gracie competing at nationals to be even a remote possibility at this point? To me, this bye discussion is pointless.
No discussion is pointless on FSU. :D
I commend Gracie for her bravery in being so candid about her struggles, and I hope that she comes back next year, even though she had talked about retiring after this cycle (though if she never comes back, nothing to be ashamed of, and we should celebrate what she has been able to accomplish).
:respec:
 

icellist

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so other than the top 5 at nationals. There's the 3 international assignment or conflicting assignment route to nationals.

How does this look for Bradie, Angela, and Courtney. (their likelihood to get the later CS assignments)
 

RoseRed

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so other than the top 5 at nationals. There's the 3 international assignment or conflicting assignment route to nationals.

How does this look for Bradie, Angela, and Courtney. (their likelihood to get the later CS assignments)
Sectionals are the week before Skate America, so that's close enough for Bradie to get a bye. Warsaw is the same week as sectionals and Tallinn is the same week as Skate America. Last season, Bradie and Mariah got byes by competing at Tallin as far as I can tell (it was also a week after sectionals lats season). So they could send Angela and Courtney to Tallinn again
 

toddlj

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Agreed that this is likely a moot point, but if they wanted to clarify the bye issue they would have done so. As it currently reads, any medal applies. A medal is a medal is a medal.
 

Tinami Amori

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I may be the only one, but I liked Karen's Carmen.......
I liked it enough to give it a benefit of a doubt in hope it improves. Karen’s “Carmen” was a project-in-works and there with a room for improvement. But the fact that her new programme is her intuitive choice and will be choreographed by her, and that she is taking this risk in an Olympic year, makes me respect her that much more. Like an old Russian saying “those who don’t risk, don’t get to drink champagne… :lol:
 
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VGThuy

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Here's a little preview of Karen's new LP:

https://t.co/duCqbryAua

What do you guys think so far?

As Tony Wheeler stated, this has the same vibe as On Golden Pond, and as that was the program that made me fall in love with her, I'm incredibly excited for this LP. I hope there are more transitions and MITF throughout the LP to make it seem like a full program.
 

analia

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Program doesn't matter so much for Karen but it is better for her to have a program she doesn't have to sell very hard and can focus on not landing her jumps toe pick first.
 

VGThuy

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so far, based on few moves, i think she is much more "into it", "feels it" and her full-stretches and "tension" show her enthusiasm...

Yeah, even if the program choreographically isn't that much better than Carmen objectively-speaking, the fact that she's obviously more into it and feels it makes all the difference in the world. Execution is like half (or more than half) the battle when it comes to making a program successful.
 

Firedancer

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Here's a little preview of Karen's new LP:

https://t.co/duCqbryAua

What do you guys think so far?

As Tony Wheeler stated, this has the same vibe as On Golden Pond, and as that was the program that made me fall in love with her, I'm incredibly excited for this LP. I hope there are more transitions and MITF throughout the LP to make it seem like a full program.

I like what we can see so far. I love the spiral. And the music just seems to fit her better. Hopefully because she chose the music and choreographed it herself she will feel more connected to this program. But I also hope she rotates those jumps. Can’t wait to see the whole program.
 

DimaToe

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Last time Chen choreographed something for herself it helped earn her a national title and got herself into the last warm up group at the world Championships, I’m glad that she’s breaking the mold and actually speaking up about how she truly feels about her programs before it’s too late. I’m excited to see how this LP that she created herself helps her further grow as a competitor this season
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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She'll stand out because there aren't 200 other skaters using the same music:)

Go with what you feel Karen, so many try to fake that and very few make it work.

That was my thought too. Well, at least she wont be compared to 10 other Carmens.

I always loved how Michelle Kwan chose music I never had heard of. To me thats an artist. Not, pass me the Romeo & Juliet CD, please. LOL.

I think she will be awesome!!!!
 

Frida80

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I think the problem with Karen's program development was because last year she couldn't really afford a choreography with her 8th place finish at nationals. So she did her programs herself using Dance performances as inspiration to create her own choreography. Karen has great musicality and an artistic eye, so she really connected with her programs.

This year as national champ, she did the expect thing of hiring a professional who didn't work with Karen and gave her some warhorses. This is something nearly all choreographers do especially during Olympic years. This doesn't work with Karen's need to be unique and connect with a piece. I feel like they should've trusted her and allowed her to find a piece of music and develop it together.

She's still growing as a skating terms of how she handles choreographers. I think it's good that she listens to herself and goes with her gut. I know it will be beautiful.
 

vesperholly

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I think the problem with Karen's program development was because last year she couldn't really afford a choreography with her 8th place finish at nationals. So she did her programs herself using Dance performances as inspiration to create her own choreography.
Eh? Mark Pillay has been choreographing programs for Karen for years: https://skatecanada.ca/2013/09/choreographer-mark-pillay-creating-winning-programs/

I think she probably started to choreograph her own programs because she enjoyed doing it.
 

Frida80

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Eh? Mark Pillay has been choreographing programs for Karen for years: https://skatecanada.ca/2013/09/choreographer-mark-pillay-creating-winning-programs/

I think she probably started to choreograph her own programs because she enjoyed doing it.

Last year I think she bumped to tier 2 envelope B or tier 1 envelope C. I can't remember. That means less funding. I know other skaters had to forgo choreography, expensive costumes and other things when the money got tight.

If she did choreograph her own programs because she liked it then that's all the more reason they should've allowed her more control over her programs this season. She won nationals with them. Carmen and Tosca were not going to be a good fit for her. No point of "playing it safe" when you have something that works.

I suspect that in coming years Karen will take dance classes and work with world class dancers to create incredible orginal programs.
 
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