The Skating Lesson

[Seerek]

I know of some bloggers/twitters of other sports (pro and Olympic) whose general tone of their personal accounts/blogs was actually quite similar to that of Dave L (rather unfiltered), yet were still able to successfully transition into contributor roles for more legitimate sports media outlets.

Dave appeared to tone it down for his contributions for outlets such as Yahoo! Sports or Vox (though who knows if that was also the result of master editing from these websites).

 

[olympic]

Re Fratianne part 2, I assumed that it was one completed interview split in 2 parts, so not sure why he can't finalize and release it.

 

[arakwafan2006]

The loss of Jenny definitely affected interest in/quality of the show. But what was in it for her? They were essentially doing it for free. Dave has another job to keep him afloat. And even with Jenny, Dave too often veered off-topic and into irrelevancies and gossip. But I was still a fan. It's too bad, because I actually thought they were better commentators than Tara and Johnny. But Dave's excesses made them unmarketable to official skating, unlike more restrained/vanilla bloggers like Jackie Wong and Ted Flett.

Exactly... Talking about Skate America and then here he comes talking about some silly like what Fleur Maxwell had for dinner... huh? Who cares? Not us... Not Jenny...

Dave sort of did a bait and switch with skaters and coaches. He marketed himself as being an interested skating journalist and then went on as a gossip columnist. He can't help himself though. I think he was star struck by meeting these big names but had not thought about how dangerous it can be to be messy.

You do appreciate certain parts about the show when listening to people like Flett but i had a feeling Ted Flett knew all along that merely " showing up to work" and being nice would sustain him. One thing though, Dave was right about his assessment of USA figure Skating as a whole. The problem is, you can't be callous and matter of fact and mean like Tarasova if you're not bringing her resume to the table. Still, i hope he comes back because for all my complaining and all of the things i hated, he did some interviews with some great people. He needed a better array of questions though.

Moskvina got his ass together though when she inferred that she was not exactly impressed with his intelligence by way of her comment about being able to speak multiple languages. Some of the questions he asked that woman were ridiculous.

 

[meggonzo]

The loss of Jenny definitely affected interest in/quality of the show. But what was in it for her? They were essentially doing it for free. Dave has another job to keep him afloat. And even with Jenny, Dave too often veered off-topic and into irrelevancies and gossip. But I was still a fan. It's too bad, because I actually thought they were better commentators than Tara and Johnny. But Dave's excesses made them unmarketable to official skating, unlike more restrained/vanilla bloggers like Jackie Wong and Ted Flett.

Jenny has a journalism degree and produced some skating show before TSL - I remember seeing her at SKAM in 2009. So I'm assuming she had a strong interest in initially starting TSL. She was also coaching in San Diego. I don't know if she still is now?

 

[Doggygirl]

By the way, I think that this commercial looks REALLY great! https://twitter.com/NBCOlympics/status/894961634963324928

Hard core curling fans must be DISTRAUGHT!!! No inclusion in this ad!!!

 

[skatfan]

Jenny has a journalism degree and produced some skating show before TSL - I remember seeing her at SKAM in 2009. So I'm assuming she had a strong interest in initially starting TSL. She was also coaching in San Diego. I don't know if she still is now?

Last I heard, she was going to get a degree in social work after trying law school and deciding not to continue.

 

[Jammers]

Lindsey Vonn isn't played out yet???

Yeah the same with Shawn White. Like Lindsey he's got to be in his 30's now. How relevant are both of them now because i'm sure they aren't in their prime anymore.

 

[aliceanne]

Yeah the same with Shawn White. Like Lindsey he's got to be in his 30's now. How relevant are both of them now because i'm sure they aren't in their prime anymore.

She won the downhill and the combined titles at the 2016 World Cup. She won the Super G in 2015. I don't think she is over-the-hill yet.

 

[Seerek]

Lindsey Vonn's recovery from a scary crash early in the 2016-17 season was quite remarkable - bronze in downhill at Alpine Worlds, and a win in Garmisch. IMO, women's downhill will be pretty wide open, Lindsey definitely will contend will the likes of Lara Gut and Ilka Stuhec.

Shawn White had only returned to competition in a more full-time capacity last season (took 2 seasons off). He did well at the Olympic Test Event in Pyeongchang, and was 2nd overall in last season's World Snowboard Tour (though trailed all of his American counterparts at the X Games). As it is, none of team USA are the favourites in Pyeongchang (Scotty James of Australia has dominated).

 

[aftershocks]

This 'n That back with discussion of 2017 US Classic (when they finally get around to it, that is ):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2VsYecIOiY

 

[Willin]

I don't know why I decided to watch this (maybe procrastination), but I was surprised how respectful Dave's tone of voice was on the Gracie matter. He was still parroting some of the same points (the contract issue in particular), but he worded things a better and didn't go into details of the family matter. Same with Julia. Still some speculation and gossip, but a lot better worded than he's sounded in the past.

OTOH, there still was a healthy dose of cattiness and shade throwing about skaters other than Julia retiring...

Based on where I am in this episode, I might keep watching this season on an episode by episode or topic by topic basis (as long as I continue to ignore his social media accounts), but we'll see how it goes.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ I think Dave obviously felt the heat for some of his tweets, and seemingly he's trying to clean up his act a bit, or make amends. I wouldn't expect that he can completely change his personality though. He and Jonathan make some good points here and there, or at least bring up some interesting questions re performances at U.S. Classic event and Lombardia Trophy (they reviewed only a few skaters in the latter competition).

I don't agree with them on everything, but it's good to hear a variety of points of view in the sport. Dave just seems to have a problem drawing a fine line between entertaining and informative, and unnecessarily snarky and disrespectful.

 

[kittysk8ts]

^^ I think Dave obviously felt the heat for some of his tweets, and seemingly he's trying to clean up his act a bit, or make amends. I wouldn't expect that he can completely change his personality though. He and Jonathan make some good points here and there, or at least bring up some interesting questions re performances at U.S. Classic event and Lombardia Trophy (they reviewed only a few skaters in the latter competition).

I don't agree with them on everything, but it's good to hear a variety of points of view in the sport. Dave just seems to have a problem drawing a fine line between entertaining and informative, and unnecessarily snarky and disrespectful.

Agree with you. I thought this was a pretty good episode without too much snark. I don't mind their personal opinions - that what half this sport is all about. I actually like dissenting opinions as long as they are without too much snark.

 

[barbarafan]

^^ I think Dave obviously felt the heat for some of his tweets, and seemingly he's trying to clean up his act a bit, or make amends. I wouldn't expect that he can completely change his personality though. He and Jonathan make some good points here and there, or at least bring up some interesting questions re performances at U.S. Classic event and Lombardia Trophy (they reviewed only a few skaters in the latter competition).

I don't agree with them on everything, but it's good to hear a variety of points of view in the sport. Dave just seems to have a problem drawing a fine line between entertaining and informative, and unnecessarily snarky and disrespectful.

So does this mean I can watch the this'n that? Funny thing...maybe the coin has finally dropped...I went back & watched his cdn national from January and some of his worst sentences are no longer there...He went back and edited it.

 

[aftershocks]

So does this mean I can watch the this'n that? Funny thing...maybe the coin has finally dropped...I went back & watched his cdn national from January and some of his worst sentences are no longer there...He went back and edited it.

Really? Well, I guess he should always think of doing some editing before putting the video podcasts out there.

I wonder if he'll ever make available Part 2 of his interview with Linda Fratianne?

 

[thvu]

TSL lost their sponsorship . I guess all the gossip mongering and conspiracy rants had monetary consequences!

 

[aftershocks]

Yeah, I think Dave should have listened to some of the constructive critiques TSL was given over the years. He should have reflected carefully and figured out that it's one thing to be famous for a snark-filled, ego-tripping gossip blog, and quite another to try and become highly visible and respected for reporting on figure skating and interviewing skaters. If you then proceed to be overly snarky in unorganized summary wrap-ups and tweet gossip in a negative way, name drop, reveal personal info and burn bridges, that's not a good way to get where you want to go. And no one will listen to your more well-founded criticism and positive ideas, much less offer monetary support.

 

[barbarafan]

Yeah, I think Dave should have listened to some of the constructive critiques TSL was given over the years. He should have reflected carefully and figured out that it's one thing to be famous for a snark-filled, ego-tripping gossip blog, and quite another to try and become highly visible and respected for reporting on figure skating and interviewing skaters. If you then proceed to be overly snarky in unorganized summary wrap-ups and tweet gossip in a negative way, name drop, reveal personal info and burn bridges, that's not a good way to get where you want to go. And no one will listen to your more well-founded criticism and positive ideas, much less offer monetary support.

Amen...and you really need to check where your input is coming from...I think he was fed some of that input and he just respat it out without either thinking, fact checking or thinking about other people's motivation.

 

[GullyGirl84]

I think a lot of the times Dave kind of wants to brag about his "sources" and covering things that aren't really being covered out in the open for figure skating.

I have mixed feelings about this-sometimes, I do appreciate some of the "news" that he "breaks". For example, yesterday he tweeted that Polina Edmunds is now being coached by Christy Ness, and was sort of making fun of the fact that ice network did not cover her coaching change in their recent article. He was also the first to break that Mariah was moving to Raf last year. Other times, he seems less interested in informing viewers about something than he is just proving he is in the know about the things, making vague innuendos that just lead to more speculation. Overall though, I am grateful since there is just such little skating news coverage in the US in general...

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

You do appreciate certain parts about the show when listening to people like Flett but i had a feeling Ted Flett knew all along that merely " showing up to work" and being nice would sustain him.

Ted's great in Modern Family, though.

 

[taf2002]

Amen...and you really need to check where your input is coming from...I think he was fed some of that input and he just respat it out without either thinking, fact checking or thinking about other people's motivation.

Speaking of another thing he needs to check: his ego at the door.

 

[barbarafan]

Speaking of another thing he needs to check: his ego at the door.

There should be a love button

 

[misskarne]

Overall though, I am grateful since there is just such little skating news coverage in the US in general...

But this is part of the problem and part of what he's trading on. Just because there's little coverage, doesn't mean we should all go fawning over a bitchy asswipe like Lease. In fact, if there's little coverage, the last thing you want is for part of that coverage to be bitchy catty shit like this. It's not a good look for the sport, just like Weir and Lipinski's commentary isn't a good look for the sport.

I won't give them the clicks to watch anymore. Besides, I can more or less guess what they said. Let's see: "Max's music sucks, Max's programs suck, he did land some jumps so I'm gonna pretend I haven't spend the last few years kicking him, and we just won't talk about who won bronze at Nepela, it's some little-country skater so who cares." Close?

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

But this is part of the problem and part of what he's trading on. Just because there's little coverage, doesn't mean we should all go fawning over a bitchy asswipe like Lease. In fact, if there's little coverage, the last thing you want is for part of that coverage to be bitchy catty shit like this. It's not a good look for the sport, just like Weir and Lipinski's commentary isn't a good look for the sport.

I won't give them the clicks to watch anymore. Besides, I can more or less guess what they said. Let's see: "Max's music sucks, Max's programs suck, he did land some jumps so I'm gonna pretend I haven't spend the last few years kicking him, and we just won't talk about who won bronze at Nepela, it's some little-country skater so who cares." Close?

Like any fan - driven site which isn't run or parented by a professional entity, there is the risk it will overstep the line and create untold damage. Particularly in a niche sport like skating, where it seems, everybody knows everybody.

Back when Jenny was still on board, some of TSL's interviews were excellent. The one with Caryn Kadavy comes to mind.

However, what completely put me off was when Dave, La, and Jonathan trashed the Australian pair team (who are really popular and loved for their on-ice presence) during their World Junior Championship coverage earlier this year. It seemed, the trio hated their costumes and music, just for the sake of being smug and superior, and not offering any real criticism.

Someone who has really grown on me is Ted Barton. His commentary for the ISU Junior Grand Prix Series is supportive, respectful and constructive (without ever being rude or overbearing).

 

[Xela M]

Who is Dave talking about when he says Christopher Dean complained that the skaters didn't know how to skate? Was it Alexa and Chris?

 

[Seerek]

The Dave/Jonathan combo definitely have built themselves a reputation where they dislike almost everything and genuinely like effectively nothing. Their reviews on most of the new/reused programs thus far are rather unflattering. I'm not sure how accessible these critiques are beyond ubers, imo.

 

[starrynight]

I'm not sure how accessible these critiques are beyond ubers, imo.

Ubers with short memories more specifically, as no skater remains safe for too long a period.

The distracting thing about TSL is that their views on any skater usually totally fluctuates depending what's in TSL's immediate self-interest. Prospects of an interview or rink access = total darlings. If that falls through they can go straight onto the naughty list lol. Because of this, it's hard to take them seriously, when you know their views on a particular skater are mostly dictated by whatever personal drama Dave Lease has with them as opposed to what is actually happening on the ice. They have as much authority as any random on a skating forum.

I suppose TSL can be entertaining if you want to listen to a skater you don't like get pummelled or you generally have no particular affection towards any particular skaters and find bitchiness amusing. (Perhaps in the same way people like to get out the popcorn and watch uber wars on forums between opposing fans).

I think it's the profile TSL have in the sport which is concerning. Talk like theirs should be confined to skating forums where it belongs. They are the embodiment of every bad stereotype of skating and are extremely poor role models for young people in the sport. I seriously side-eye the skaters and coaches who associate with TSL for their own (temporary) gain.

I just don't know how Dave Lease and co find the energy to be so throughly negative all the time about a sport they ostensibly love. I think they need to learn that being constantly negative is not the same as being clever or witty. Also that it's way more fun to try to enjoy things rather than tear everything down all the time.

 

[sap5]

I liked when Dave had actual skaters or coaches on last season, because many of them had some good insight on the sport and kept Dave from descending into his usual catty gossip. But Jonathan -- was he even a skater? Why is he on? He usually just agrees with whatever Dave is saying anyway so there's nothing interesting.

 

[angi]

After his last video I'm really done with him. There is no fun in seeing him and Jonathan mock everything and everyone and amuse each other in the process. There is no interesting insight, no attention to details and no class in their demeanor. Just tons of snark and disrespect.
I think he lost his John Wilson Blades sponsorship and I think he is having a hard time getting skaters and coaches to talk to him and I'm glad it's like that since he doesn't deserve it.

 

[Rock2]

Well, as usual. I'm in the minority.

I'll start by saying they in their episodes are critiquing what they are seeing, as best as possible according to the rulebook although they don't nerd out on it.

I don't think it should be their prerogative to be anyone's cheerleader. I only equate a critique with 'being negative' if they have no substantiation. And for the most part they do.
So rather than get caught up on some perceived negativity, why not just debate or counter a point they make with your own assessment? If you don't have an appetite for healthy debate or expressed disagreement on decisions made by athletes, then maybe these videos are not for you.

As for the video on ACI17, I was kinda shocked that I agreed with almost 100% of what they said (and trust me that never happens). They said out loud literally almost everything I thought and observed watching the event and some of the comments on Nepala, too.

Maybe they can tweak their format to gush on a few things more as there's lots of fodder for that. A better balance. But I see support for much of what they said to the point that I can't claim there is any personal bias or agenda.

Enjoyed the vid. And Jonathan contributed much more than that last one so that was good to see.