Twice is nice, Three times the charm

[Clutz]

With Ashley Wagnor's announcement that she is going back to Moulin Rouge this season, I was trying to think back on skaters who have used a competitive program for three complete seasons. While a repeat season can work, especially if the skater has not competed that much, I am somewhat leary of how Ashley can make this program appealing again. While it is I think the best program with lyrics that has been offered since the rule change, am nervous she can never recapture the audience involvement she got at 2016 Worlds.

In thinking about the three-peaters, of course Tonia Kwiatkowski and her Firebird short program comes to mind which she used 1993/4, 94/95, and 95/96. Somehow this program never got old.
1995 Nationals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R556UHPCSM

There are alot of skaters who have used their programs two years but the only other one I can think of for three years was Viktor Petrenko who used his classical Long Program 1989/90, 90/91 and 91/92. Never really found this program that interesting but it worked.
1990 Worlds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XpHGw1q5ww

Any other repeat offenders come to mind?

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

How many years did Maria Butyrskaya use Atonal/I mean Otonal before winning 1999 Worlds with it?

 

[morqet]

Lysacek takes the crown I think, for using Espana Cani for three and a bit season. And Samantha Cesario skated to Carmen for 4 seasons, but the first 2 were using Carmen Fantasie for the SP and then the following two using Carmen for the FS, so maybe she gets a pass as it wasn't always the same program

Ashley's not the only threepeater this year, with Hanyu bringing back his Chopin SP. I'm really disappointed we're not going to see anything new from him.

 

[MacMadame]

In thinking about the three-peaters, of course Tonia Kwiatkowski and her Firebird short program comes to mind which she used 1993/4, 94/95, and 95/96. Somehow this program never got old.

It probably never got old because we didn't see it on tv as much. There was no real internet for streaming like there is (it was just becoming the commercial internet we know now in that timeframe), she didn't go to Worlds in 94 or 95, and there was no 4CCs. So I think I saw the program 3 times, tops.

As for Ashley, she didn't use Moulin Rouge 3x in a row as last year she skated to something else. So I think that makes it more like when Sale & Pelletier went back to Love Story than Petrenko skating to the same LP three years in a row.

 

[coppertop1]

How many years did Maria Butyrskaya use Atonal/I mean Otonal before winning 1999 Worlds with it?

Twice, in 1997-98, and 1998-99. Patrick Chan used Four Seasons three times. 2006-07, 2007-08' and then 2013-14. The music and choreography was different

 

[DreamSkates]

I am guessing that in an Olympic year, when doing extremely well in every competition beforehand is significant, not to mention how well you can skate at the Olympics, choosing a program you are very familiar with and therefore, confident with, and it has been successful in the past, gives you more time to work on the jumps and details, rather than spending a significant amount of time in practice and at competitions, gaining that same level of comfort and confidence. Not sure if skating to the same program 3 or 4 years affects the judges - it shouldn't but people may have their biases. Even a little negativity can affect the overall scores.

 

[Xela M]

I'm really happy about it. She'll be so comfortable with it she can actually concentrate on landing the jumps! Using repeat programs has never hurt anyone at the Olympics, taking silly risks - has!

 

[VGThuy]

Shizuka Arakawa - 2001/2002; 2003/2004; and brought it back for the 2006 Olympics. All three versions were different though the music cuts were similar.

 

[Meoima]

Ashley's not the only threepeater this year, with Hanyu bringing back his Chopin SP. I'm really disappointed we're not going to see anything new from him.

I don't mind that they repeat though https://youtu.be/QcbyQujtFro

 

[Xela M]

I can't think of a single instance where bringing back old programs has ever hindered a skater

 

[VGThuy]

I can't think of a single instance where bringing back old programs has ever hindered a skater

It tends to happen in ice dance but who knows if they would have done better if the stuck with their newer programs.

 

[Xela M]

It tends to happen in ice dance but who knows if they would have done better if the stuck with their newer programs.

Maybe ice dance, but certainly not singles/pairs programs. In fact, bringing back old programs for the Olympic season was the vehicle to quite a few Olympic medals.

I'm very happy about this, especially given that the alternative was Lala Land!

 

[VGThuy]

I think if a skater in singles or pairs bring back an old program in time for the Olympics/Worlds, most people are relieved because there tends to be a reason why the skater/team brings back an old program.

 

[MsZem]

I can't think of a single instance where bringing back old programs has ever hindered a skater

Brian Joubert said back in 2012 that he knew he could only be so competitive with The Matrix, as it really wasn't the most IJS-friendly program. On the other hand, who knows how he would have done if he'd stuck with his Beethoven free skate, as originally planned.

But yes, typically recycled programs are ones that skaters have found success with and they feel comfortable skating to them. And outside of ice dance, there doesn't seem to be an expectation for new material every season.

 

[lala]

Plushenko: 1997 /1998 and 1998/1999- Jean-Michel Jarre LP

2004/2005 and 2005/2006 - Godfather LP

2012 -Tango de Roxanne LP and 2014 SP

he recently said: Old programs are normal practice. Me and Alexei Nikolayevich (Mishin) it passed. If the program is very successful, then why not leave it? Can you imagine how they rolled out these programs for the whole season? They know where to inhale, where to exhale, where to pause, where you can relax a little to save energy. This is a very competent tactical move.(google translate)

 

[bardtoob]

Lysacek takes the crown I think, for using Espana Cani for three and a bit season.

That's right, when Evan was trying to figure skate and let everybody know he was a boy at the same time.

 

[Tinami Amori]

That's right, when Evan was trying to figure skate and let everybody know he was a boy at the same time.

... a "straight boy" to be exact.....

 

[Japanfan]

So I think that makes it more like when Sale & Pelletier went back to Love Story than Petrenko skating to the same LP three years in a row.

Petrenko came to my mind as well. Though I loved that LP, it's one of my old time favorites.

I can't think of a single instance where bringing back old programs has ever hindered a skater

It may have hindered S&P in 2002 - especially given that they didn't compete the more complex "Orchid" at the Olympics, which was seen by many as the more Olympic-worthy program of the two. If a judge saw the two pairs as equal, the perception that "Love Story" was a simpler program than "Meditation" may have combined with it being an old program in guiding the judge to rank B&S first against a clean S&P. "Orchid" promised to be a masterpiece and it was so disappointing that S&P didn't compete it at the Olympics.

But I don't want to rehash or restart a discussion of the SLC pairs debacle.

 

[pETEs (Sasha Fan)]

I'm 95% sure that Peggy Fleming baaaaaaaaaaaaack in her heyday used the same programs for three straight seasons. Ò;ô

 

[bardtoob]

I'm 95% sure that Peggy Fleming baaaaaaaaaaaaack in her heyday used the same programs for three straight seasons. Ò;ô

Janet Lynn as well. I think it was much more common when figures were the main event.

IIRC Dorothy Hamill and certainly Fratianne because changing programs somewhat but tended to keep music.

 

[Coco]

The requirements of IJS are tough enough that I think it is particularly hard to put a free skate together that is aesthetically pleasing and has an emotional impact.

 

[tylersf]

In gymnastics, Hana Ricna used the same floor exercise music from 1983 - 1988.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4J_SkEJsBI

 

[bardtoob]

In gymnastics, Hana Ricna used the same floor exercise music from 1983 - 1988.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4J_SkEJsBI

Hmmm . . . I had not realized she placed 2nd behind Mostepanova and ahead of Gnauck and Shushunova in the AA at the 1984 Alternative Olomouc Friendship Games.

 

[aftershocks]

Ashley's not the only threepeater this year, with Hanyu bringing back his Chopin SP. I'm really disappointed we're not going to see anything new from him.

Yes, I agree with wanting to see something fresh for the Olympic season. Hanyu skated well at ACI with the tried and true Chopin, but he faltered in fp with his repeat Semei. Meanwhile, Javi has a variant twist on Chaplin for his sp which is a theme he's done before to different music. I think Javi's Don Quixote fp is ambitious but the music I found a bit heavy and overdone, somehow not clicking just right with music, choreo and performance. Javi might actually be better off bringing back his trusty Sinatra fp from two seasons ago that worked so well for him at 2016 Worlds.

And guys, everything and I mean everything was very different back in the day. There's no comparison with the way the sport is now and what the athletes face these days with competition requirements and number of events they compete throughout the season! Not to mention the depth and global reach of the sport, as well as IJS/COP, and elimination of competing and training figures.

 

[Meoima]

Yes, I agree with wanting to see something fresh for the Olympic season. Hanyu skated well at ACI with the tried and true Chopin, but he faltered in fp with his repeat Semei. Meanwhile, Javi has a variant twist on Chaplin for his sp which is a theme he's done before to different music. I think Javi's Don Quixote fp is ambitious but the music I found a bit heavy and overdone, somehow not clicking just right with music, choreo and performance. Javi might actually be better off bringing back his trusty Sinatra fp from two seasons ago that worked so well for him at 2016 Worlds.

And guys, everything and I mean everything was very different back in the day. There's no comparison with the way the sport is now and what the athletes face these days with competition requirements and number of events they compete throughout the season! Not to mention the depth and global reach of the sport, as well as IJS/COP, and elimination of competing and training figures.

It's still early. The season is long and full of obstacles. I do think the CC guys are on the right track. Orser and his team understand Olympic pressure very well. They will be fine by the Olympic time.

 

[giselle23]

Didn't Patrick Chan use Take Five for multiple seasons?

Janet Lynn as well. I think it was much more common when figures were the main event.

IIRC Dorothy Hamill and certainly Fratianne because changing programs somewhat but tended to keep music.

True, back in the day. How many times did Janet use the Lenore Overture as the ending of her program? But at least for her last competitive performance she did something new--Ravel's La Valse combined with Debussy. I think it was her best program.

 

[skatingguy]

Didn't Patrick Chan use Take Five for multiple seasons?

Patrick used to change one program a season - so one season he'd get a new short program and keep last season's free skate and then the next season it would be a new short program.

 

[coppertop1]

He used it twice, in 2010-11 and 2011-12.

 

[manhn]

Petrenko came to my mind as well. Though I loved that LP, it's one of my old time favorites.



It may have hindered S&P in 2002 - especially given that they didn't compete the more complex "Orchid" at the Olympics, which was seen by many as the more Olympic-worthy program of the two. If a judge saw the two pairs as equal, the perception that "Love Story" was a simpler program than "Meditation" may have combined with it being an old program in guiding the judge to rank B&S first against a clean S&P. "Orchid" promised to be a masterpiece and it was so disappointing that S&P didn't compete it at the Olympics.

But I don't want to rehash or restart a discussion of the SLC pairs debacle.

S&P did not repeat Love Story for three seasons, just two. If people think otherwise, it may be due to skaters having to perform two free programs at the gpf.

 

[coppertop1]

S&P did not repeat Love Story for three seasons, just two. If people think otherwise, it may be due to skaters having to perform two free programs at the gpf.

Yes, they used love story for their second LP in the gpf. They resurrected it at the Olympics.