The Dance Hall, Part 4: To Helsinki & Back -- Seeking Rhumba Magic ...

[chapis]

I could have sworn that I saw some ISU communication that said that reggaeton was allowed, but now I can't find it.

Edit: It wasn't ISU, it was US Figure Skating: http://www.usfsa.org/content/isu-ice-dance-qanda-2017-2018-no1.pdf

Interesting

 

[Dobre]

I could have sworn that I saw some ISU communication that said that reggaeton was allowed, but now I can't find it.

Edit: It wasn't ISU, it was US Figure Skating: http://www.usfsa.org/content/isu-ice-dance-qanda-2017-2018-no1.pdf

Thank you. This may be a clarification that happened after Worlds.

It's here on the ISU site. Labeled as Additional Q&A's #1 and dated May 2017.
http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pair-skating-and-ice-dance/isu-judging-system/ice-dance

 

[Sylvia]

Are Nazarova and Nikitin with Shpilband now?

They switched to Shpilband/Bourzat in the summer of 2016.

"Icenetwork asked its contributors which ice dance teams they thought would take the next step forward in the 2017-18 season": http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/08/15/245531472

 

[sap5]

They switched to Shpilband/Bourzat in the summer of 2016.

"Icenetwork asked its contributors which ice dance teams they thought would take the next step forward in the 2017-18 season": http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/08/15/245531472

Phil Hersh: Standing third after the short dance, Madison Hubbell and Zachary Donohue were ready to break out at the 2017 World Championships, but they came undone in the free, and departed Helsinki with an unsatisfying ninth-place finish. After three straight bronze medals at the U.S. championships, this veteran couple (both 28) is capable of winning the national title and becoming Olympic medal contenders.

Madi and Zach are 26, not 28!

 

[chapis]

Well, this person confirms that yes, the problem with reggaeton are actually the offensive lyrics, so everyone who know spanish be alert with lyrics, it is our opportunity to accuse teams .

 

[sap5]

Thank you. This may be a clarification that happened after Worlds.

It's here on the ISU site. Labeled as Additional Q&A's #1 and dated May 2017.
http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pair-skating-and-ice-dance/isu-judging-system/ice-dance

Thanks Dobre. That must have been what I saw originally.

 

[levineismine]

So, JGP starts this week
I only started to follow closely the Jrs in the last couple of years - who should I be looking for in the top 6 teams or so? (edit: let's make it 10)
Besides C/P who I think may be the frontrunners, and Lajoie/Lagha who I think/hope are due to a breaktrough, I don't know well enough the russian teams (except Shpilevaya/Smirnov), to me they kind of all blend together.

 

[Nmsis]

My personal faves in junior are
Sofia Polishchuk / Alexander Vakhnov (first couple of the video)
Natacha Lagouge / Corentin Rahier
I expect them to rise in the rankings this season.

 

[Dobre]

So, JGP starts this week
I only started to follow closely the Jrs in the last couple of years - who should I be looking for in the top 6 teams or so?
Besides C/P who I think may be the frontrunners, and Lajoie/Lagha who I think/hope are due to a breaktrough, I don't know well enough the russian teams (except Shpilevaya/Smirnov), to me they kind of all blend together.

Carreira & Ponomarenko, Shpilevaya & Smirnov, and Skoptcova & Aleshin are the three highest finishers from Junior Worlds and the only three dance teams to have qualified for the JGPF. They are the teams to beat until proven otherwise.

Three-way battle in the first event between Lajoie & Lagha, Polischuk & Vakhnov, and Lewis & Bye.

The Greens' debut.

Shevchenko & Eremenko have been chasing the lead pack & medaling for two seasons. They have a good shot at the JGPF.

I also like the young French dance team that debuted last season (promise to identify them by their correct names this year). I think Avonley Nguyen is a joy to watch and that she and Vadym Kolesnik have a good chance of earning a JGP spot this season. I like Gropman & Somerville's FD.

 

[Ka3sha]

A lot of photos from the Short Dance at 2017 Worlds
https://fotki.yandex.ru/users/mihsersh/album/564420/

 

[nimi]

^^ I'm giggling uncontrollably at this one

ETA These ones are great, too (omg his hair)!

ETA2 The best dressed, obviously

 

[Dobre]

Updates in the race for the six dance spots at Nebelhorn:
(Six being the number you get if you assume Denmark doesn't use theirs and that Israel does use theirs).


So Mansour & Ceska have reappeared, and just won the Czech test skate & a berth to Nebelhorn.

The German spot at Nebelhorn is up in the air. (Kavita has been having trouble with her achilles).

Apparently Yanovskaya is in the process of acquiring Hungarian citizenship. (She still has "Team Russia" posted on her twitter page). There is a young Hungarian team as well.

Muramoto & Reed debuted their SD only in Chicago and finished second with it above Muller & Dieck, Abachkina & Thauron, and Nazarova & Nikitin.

Min & Gamelin debuted their programs at the first Korean selection competition & they have no competition left at home as the other two Korean teams no longer exist.

Torn & Partanen debuted at Lake Placid. Struggled in the short, had a better free; but still finished below the young Czechs & Muller & Dieck. Torn & Partanen are signed up to compete at Lombardia.

Garabedian & Proulx-Senecal debuted their short at Lake Placid, took a nasty fall, and pulled out of the free (as well as another competition in Canada? Maybe?)

Mysliveckova & Csolley appear to be back and are signed up for Lombardia.

Coomes & Buckland debuted in a competition in the England and earned huge scores.

Two teams from Azerbaijan competed at Lake Placid. Ogloblina & Zhirnov finished ahead by 0.85 in the short, then withdrew. Galyeta & Brown went to Worlds last year. Both teams were ahead of the Finns & Armenians after the short. Galyeta & Brown finished below the Finns in the free.

Anyone have thoughts on who is going to grab those six spots?

 

[levineismine]

I would guess:

Coomes/Buckland (basically sure)
Muramoto/Reed (pretty good chance)
Min/Gamelin (pretty good chance)

Would have said Lorenz/Polizoakis with pretty good chance, but things look uncertain now with the injury.
I was impressed by the improvement of Mueller/Dieck, so if L/P aren't healthy I could also see them grabbing one spot.

Torn/Partanen have been quite inconsistent, last season was a bit hit and miss.

Don't know the status of Mysliveckova & Csolley and Mansour & Ceska in terms of injury recovery or progress in the skating.

So perhaps the last 3 spots are up between these 4 teams, with an advantage for the Germans.

 

[sap5]

Looks like many of the top teams have really taken ownership of their programs and have their own vision of what they want to show this Olympic season. I don't think I've ever been more excited to see programs than this season!

 

[levineismine]

Thoughts on the top 3 Canadian teams all at Autumn Classic?

 

[Dobre]

Thoughts on the top 3 Canadian teams all at Autumn Classic?

On the one hand, ! On the other hand, ?

 

[VGThuy]

Thoughts on the top 3 Canadian teams all at Autumn Classic?

I've gained a whole new level of respect for all three of them. They're showing they're not afraid to do a competition against one another this early into the season. Plus, it's going to be a long season, and standings can go up and down.

 

[sap5]

I think I'm still trying to understand why, though. I thought the early part of the season is where you work out kinks in your programs, so why compete against each other so early?

 

[VGThuy]

I guess why not? Get your programs out there early, but stay within the country so you can go back and work on it asap before the GP series. Spend less time traveling and more time training.

 

[lauravvv]

I guess why not? Get your programs out there early, but stay within the country so you can go back and work on it asap before the GP series. Spend less time traveling and more time training.

Except Weaver/Poje don't train in Canada. If they will be in US, then it's understandable, but won't they be in Russia? I don't really know where Morozov is located at which time of year.

 

[VGThuy]

Except Weaver/Poje don't train in Canada. If they will be in US, then it's understandable, but won't they be in Russia? I don't really know where Morozov is located at which time of year.

After I hit submit I remembered Weaver/Poje haha. I thought they were in New Jersey which isn't that far, but who knows?

 

[lauravvv]

After I hit submit I remembered Weaver/Poje haha. I thought they were in New Jersey which isn't that far, but who knows?

I thought for a moment that Morozov will probably be away at Ondrej Nepela Trophy with Denis Ten during that time (in that case W/P would have no reason to stay in Russia), but I just looked, and Ten is not on the entry list of Nepela.

 

[Dobre]

I guess why not?

Because you are ranking your own teams heading into the season. (With their new programs). Leaving some in a position of greater power than others prior to the GP. And/or leaving room for your top athletes to be undermined before the season ever starts. I have to say that I am less excited about the dance event at Skate Canada now. (That will probably change after the Autumn Classic--real competition is usually more exciting than dance predicting--but it was one of my first reactions).

No guts, no glory. They could send G&P up against Bobrova & Soloviev at Nepela or Cappellini & Lanotte in Italy or Coomes & Buckland at Nebelhorn, giving G&P a chance to break through or bolster their World Standing. If G&P break through against another Canadian team, then it undermines the other team. How is that helpful to the program as a whole?

On the positive side, all three teams will get international feedback early--which I feel is very valuable--and the Autumn Classic is a relatively "safe" place to do it. (Less subject to international political maneuvering than traveling). There is less travel for anyone training in North America. And--really--a debut is a debut. It is mostly about the learning process. Early season Challenger results have been overturned often enough, I think teams know they can do it. And, of course, it will be exciting to see all these top teams going head-to-head.

 

[VGThuy]

I think with IJS, rankings still matter as they always do, but it's not as dispositive if the teams feel like they have it in them to overcome it. Shibs in 2015 GPF and then 2016 Nationals 4CC...Hubbell/Donohue for their entire career leading up to 2017 Worlds SD, etc.

And as you said, a team like G/P can go up and possibly beat (or be close in scores with) B/S or C/P or C/B, but we know early Challenger results don't always carry over the rest of the season (I'd argue it often times does not) and heck even GP standings get upended by the time 4CC/Euros, Olys/Worlds happen.

 

[chapis]

I just see this quick summary with examples about lifts in ice dance, if anyone is interested
http://ach-nein.tumblr.com/post/80958506183/ice-dance-technical-elements-lifts-in-the-short

 

[levineismine]

Entries for all pre-GP Challenger events are out except for Autumn Classic (but CAN entries) and Finlandia.

Of the top teams so far: C/L: Lombardia, B/S: Nepela, V/M, W/P, G/P Autumn Classic, H/D US Classic.
P/C are traditionally debuting at the French Masters at the end of September.
Curious to where and if Shibs and C/B will go.

I have the feeling last year there were more top teams (and close to top) competing in more Challenger events (or perhaps more spread). Looks like a different strategy for the Oly season

 

[sap5]

Entries for all pre-GP Challenger events are out except for Autumn Classic (but CAN entries) and Finlandia.

Of the top teams so far: C/L: Lombardia, B/S: Nepela, V/M, W/P, G/P Autumn Classic, H/D US Classic.
P/C are traditionally debuting at the French Masters at the end of September.
Curious to where and if Shibs and C/B will go.

I have the feeling last year there were more top teams (and close to top) competing in more Challenger events (or perhaps more spread). Looks like a different strategy for the Oly season

Thanks! I remember C/B competing in two, but IIRC, C/L didn't do any and neither did W/P or the Shibs.

 

[levineismine]

Thanks! I remember C/B competing in two, but IIRC, C/L didn't do any and neither did W/P or the Shibs.

Nebelhorn had C/L vs G/P vs C/B. Nepela had C/B vs B/S, Finlandia H/D vs Stepanova/Bukin.
Can't recall the other ones.

 

[Dobre]

I have the feeling last year there were more top teams (and close to top) competing in more Challenger events (or perhaps more spread). Looks like a different strategy for the Oly season

What we're seeing is all of the top teams sticking close to home. (Or foregoing the Challenger Series entirely).

Both Italian teams in Italy.
All three Canadian teams in Canada. (I'm going to temper my excitement here until I see all three of them on the ice for their SD).
Hubbell & Donohue (and Hawayek & Baker) in the U.S.
Bobrova & Soloviev in Eastern Europe at Nepela.
(And I would wager Stepanova & Bukin either next door to Russia in Finland or in Eastern Europe also. They are on a sub list already).
Nobody at Nebelhorn at all except Coomes & Buckland who have to be there.

That's your top ten right there.

In fact, when you look at the Season's Best scores from last season, the highest ranked team traveling beyond a regionally close CS event is #17, Pogrebinsky & Benoit.

Papadakis & Cizeron, the Shibs, Chock & Bates, Tobias & Tkachenko, Sinitsina & Katsalapov, Zahorski & Guerreiro, and Agafanova & Ucar have yet to show up on any CS lists. (Unless I'm overlooking one of them).

Last season the following top teams competed away from their local CS event: Cappellini & Lanotte, Chock & Bates, Gilles & Poirier.

The year before that, the following top teams competed away from their local CS event: The Shibs, Gilles & Poirier, Coomes & Buckland, Weaver & Poje, Chock & Bates.

Teams do skip the early Challenger events every year. Assuming they aren't at Finlandia, this will be the third season for Papadakis & Cizeron and the second season for the Shibs. I don't think Sinitsina & Katsalapov have ever competed in the Challenger Series. Bobrova & Soloviev didn't compete two years ago, and Weaver & Poje didn't compete last season. Sometimes due to injury or illness or the adjustment of a coaching change. But this year, my guess is that some teams just want more preparation time. And apparently no one wants to travel.

 

[chapis]

don't you think that is great that all the top teams are skating very different styles in the olympic season?