Zhulin interview on the state of Russian dance & a bit about Papadakis/Cizeron

[Sylvia]

Re-posting from the Russian news thread:

Big interview with Zhulin about Russian ice dance
"Ilinykh needs Katsalapov"
http://rsport.ru/interview/20160412/912510423.html
- Monko/Khaliavin seems to be done because of her injury
- it's still not clear about Bobrova/Soloviev
- looks like he really really is interested in Zahorski/Guerreiro (the only positive part of the interview for me)
- talks about Shekhovtsova and Piseev
- Stepanova/Bukin are still too juniorish

It is a great interview, a very honest one, maybe too much nostalgy though..

Google translation: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://rsport.ru/interview/20160412/912510423.html

ETA on 4/13:

Here's a better translation from the fs-gossip blog. They have lots of English translations from Russian interviews

http://fs-gossips.com/alexander-zhulin-ilinykh-needs-katsalapov/

 

[casken]

- If my, then, unfortunately, Dima and Katya did not participate in the World Cup, but I have a feeling that they would have competed there for some fifth or sixth place.

There was only .7 between 4th and 5th. It's possible the could have slotted in between C&L and W&P (Think 2014 worlds), but most likely they either would have finished just ahead of both teams, or just behind.

If they hit level 4s for both programs I think they could have been 4th. They beat C&L in the FD at Euros, and if C&L can get 112+ at worlds, B&S could have been in the 112-113 range like the everyone else (minus P&C of course) if they hit all the levels like Euros.

No one was knocking the Americans off the podium sans meltdown though.

It's great that he' talking up Z&G, but I can't help but feel it's because they are all he has left for sure right now. The almost "no comment" like remark about Monko is not reassuring at all.

 

[Xela M]

M&K were a very odd team and it's not like they would ever be challenging for Worlds medas even if healthy.

With Russian ice dance in complete disarray and just waiting for a new team to emerge as saviours and finally have one top team again - Z&G cannot miss this opportunity to make a splash next season.

 

[caseyedwards]

S/K's big leap this season was going from incompetent (2014 NHK) to competent. That's not good enough for the future. Based on their progress level when would they be world and Olympic champions? 2030's?! Time for Z/G but maybe its not teams. That's the worst scenario. The system is crushing all the teams potential and no team can emerge as long as the current leadership is in place.

 

[Tak]

M&K were a very odd team and it's not like they would ever be challenging for Worlds medas even if healthy.

With Russian ice dance in complete disarray and just waiting for a new team to emerge as saviours and finally have one top team again - Z&G cannot miss this opportunity to make a splash next season.

I hope they will get their chance. But are they even eligible for any GP events? I guess they could get the spot at RC, but who knows? I/Z didn't do that well this year. If they need a 2nd GP event, they could get it instead. Or someone else .

I like this team and think they have potential - I just hope they get to compete internationally so the judges get to see them.

 

[Xela M]

I hope they will get their chance. But are they even eligible for any GP events? I guess they could get the spot at RC, but who knows? I/Z didn't do that well this year. If they need a 2nd GP event, they could get it instead. Or someone else .

I like this team and think they have potential - I just hope they get to compete internationally so the judges get to see them.

Oh, I'm sure the Russian Fed is not pinning its hopes to the existing dance teams and will let Z&G compete. There literally is no depth at all in Russian ice dance and all teams (bar B&S who cannot even compete) are on the same level

 

[maatTheViking]

Are there any post world comp that would help Z&G get on the seasons best list? I would assume it would be in the Russian Federations best interest to have them at the RUS GP.

 

[BittyBug]

The almost "no comment" like remark about Monko is not reassuring at all.

In the general Russian thread, someone suggested that M&K are done due to her injury.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Are there any post world comp that would help Z&G get on the seasons best list? I would assume it would be in the Russian Federations best interest to have them at the RUS GP.

Not this season. Only Challenger Series events, GP's, Championships, OWG/YOG, and, in the past WTT, so maybe Challenge Cup -- but only those disciplines competing both segments -- count towards the SB list, which determines eligibility except for split couples and returning skaters and placement at Worlds/JWC/JGPF*

*almost always moot since those who place high enough are almost always Top 24 SB and earn at least one spot outright.

They could get assigned to a CS eventbor two and qualify as an alternate.V/M and, at most, a handful of teams would be competition for the alternates list Top Five.

 

[Ka3sha]

In the general Russian thread, someone suggested that M&K are done due to her injury.

It was me, there were rumors on her retirement for a long time on Russian forums and websites..
I guess, only @Jeschke still really save a faith

I would really agree with Zhulin on S/K - they are too sweet for me, while had a significant progress this season. And I liked their SD.
In terms of I/Z - I don't know.. They seemed to have great potential last season, I really really liked their Carmen (not only because of Elena, Ruslan was also great there). But this season it was a completely mess, not a hot one I hope that with best programs they will look better and more promising
I do not believe in S/B and would also agree with Zhulin - they are still too juniorish and, let's say the truth, she can not skate properly
I want to believe in Z/G and I already like them but will wait for the next season - we all know, that choreo is not always Zhulin's best side.
Who else? I would love to see Mozgov on ice again (with Anna or not, doesn't matter)

By the way, they had a really nice photo of I/K 3 or 4 years ago
http://visualrian.ru/ru/site/gallery/#903248

 

[IceAlisa]

Zhulin said that Cizeron is flawless.

 

[Katha]

The problem with all that crystall ball stuff is...that it's crystal ball stuff. Z/G have potential, but what they've shown so far hasn't been incredible either IMO and they're skating together for a bit already, don't they? It's always easy to point to the couple who hasn't yet had major assignments, who had barely any chance to show themselves at all (and consequently hasn't encountered any blowback yet either) and point to them as the Great White Hope. I think one problem with the Russian coaches/fed/system in general is the search for the Great White Hope that will make everything shiny again in no time. And they themselves won't have to do any soul searching about youth development, progression to seniors, the Russian dance program in general and the role all the Russian dance coaches play in that (Kustarova, Svinin/Zhuk, Gorshkov, but certainly also Zhulin). Even if I/K had stayed together and wobbled their way to some medals (I'm never going to be convinced that them winning anything was a sure thing at all), that would still have been only papering over the problems that are going on in the lower levels.

Sorry, you don't have a big kahuna at the moment. Deal with what you have. B/S, S/K, S/B, I/Z, Z/G all might develop in positive ways or not. Apart from B/S, the other four pairs seem to want to go on till 2022. Some junior pairs will also join their ranks in time. The new season will show how the pairs have progressed. I/Z might stabilize under Shpilband (if they stay there full time) or not. S/K might improve further or not (and will hopefully get a non-muzak FD this time around...). S/B might get over the stagnation this year or not. We'll see how Z&G develp.

 

[kosjenka]

I feel like an idiot reading google translation

Queen Monko

 

[Loves_Shizuka]

Zhulin said that Cizeron is flawless.

Well said Mr. Zhulin.

I really hope Z&G can have a breakout season

 

[MarieM]

The problem with all that crystall ball stuff is...that it's crystal ball stuff. Z/G have potential, but what they've shown so far hasn't been incredible either IMO and they're skating together for a bit already, don't they? It's always easy to point to the couple who hasn't yet had major assignments, who had barely any chance to show themselves at all (and consequently hasn't encountered any blowback yet either) and point to them as the Great White Hope. I think one problem with the Russian coaches/fed/system in general is the search for the Great White Hope that will make everything shiny again in no time. And they themselves won't have to do any soul searching about youth development, progression to seniors, the Russian dance program in general and the role all the Russian dance coaches play in that (Kustarova, Svinin/Zhuk, Gorshkov, but certainly also Zhulin). Even if I/K had stayed together and wobbled their way to some medals (I'm never going to be convinced that them winning anything was a sure thing at all), that would still have been only papering over the problems that are going on in the lower levels.

Z&G had no release all seson but late october. They couldn't really train while in limbo, do you get that?
Of course they haven't shown great things: they couldn't ! Look at how much progress they made in 4 little competitions. That's already an amazing stuff. Their programs sucked. Everyone and their dogs knows it. They know it. They did outgrew them after the first russian competition they did.
They've been working harder than anyone else since the release. They are hungry. I am quite certain that Zhulin will do his best with them. When noone interferes with what he choreographs, he's genius.

The problem is that most of those coach do not teach good basics. Zhulin said it all : no knee bend, no cleanless in edges. That hurts the teams in the long run. That's what they've lost in those 10 years. Why? I have no clue about that. Zhulin and Oleg are doing great at fixing that but let's get real. All the girls in Russia at the moment (but for Elena and Tiffany) are "of the village" and do not shine. Nor does any partnership shine at the moment either. They all need better packaging and better choreography. They used to have it all. Look at what Usova/Zhulin/ Gritshuk/Platov and so on were skating to 20 years ago. THAT was great ice dance. Let's bring it back !!
Boys are somewhat very good. With good basics, strong edges, deep knee bend. But their partners are not there at all.
Add to that they are so old fashioned in costumes and choreography ....

 

[levineismine]

Here's a better translation from the fs-gossip blog. They have lots of English translations from Russian interviews

http://fs-gossips.com/alexander-zhulin-ilinykh-needs-katsalapov/

 

[Frau Muller]

What does Zhulin mean by Dmitry (Soloviov) being "the Man"? So is Cizeron not "the Man"? Perhaps Zhulin thinks that P/C don't convey the passion between Man-Woman and are more asexual...performing with poker faces and not obviously dramatic? Zhulin even labels the French as "unisex." Many others seem to think the opposite. Does the Russian style rely more on "faces" emoting to tell a story and, hence, be more obviously a "man and woman" on the ice? This is puzzling.

 

[vivika1982]

What does Zhulin mean by Dmitry (Soloviov) being "the Man"? So is Cizeron not "the Man"? Perhaps Zhulin thinks that P/C don't convey the passion between Man-Woman and are more asexual...performing with poker faces and not obviously dramatic? Zhulin even labels the French as "unisex." Many others seem to think the opposite. Does the Russian style rely more on "faces" emoting to tell a story and, hence, be more obviously a "man and woman" on the ice? This is puzzling.

I found this puzzling too since his and Usova's style was similar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imx7xxl0TK8
When i saw P/C FD from last season U/Z's Mozart's Fantasy in D minor was the first comparison that came to my silly mind. The ballet on ice came back and i don't mind "unisex" or whatnot vs. "Man/woman" or whatever.

 

[Spun Silver]

He sounds so lost and out of step.

Previously, we had programs with ideas, we worked a lot on Paganini. And now are skating mostly to some popular songs, about nothing. Fashion changes. Previously we wore flared, then straight jeans, then switched to skinny. The movement in dance go in more obscure direction, and I have no answer, where we will find ourselves in the end. And what we will skate in the Olympic season. I do not even know with whom.

 

[aliceanne]

What does Zhulin mean by Dmitry (Soloviov) being "the Man"? So is Cizeron not "the Man"? Perhaps Zhulin thinks that P/C don't convey the passion between Man-Woman and are more asexual...performing with poker faces and not obviously dramatic? Zhulin even labels the French as "unisex." Many others seem to think the opposite. Does the Russian style rely more on "faces" emoting to tell a story and, hence, be more obviously a "man and woman" on the ice? This is puzzling.

I got the impression from the FS gossip translation that he sees them skating to abstract concepts such as portraying wind, rather than doing literal stories. He said it was because their lines and skating was so similar as opposed to a team where there was a more distinct physical difference between the man and the woman. He sees their strength in an ability to create an atmosphere rather than tell a story. If they were in his group he would not change that.

 

[kittysk8ts]

Here's a better translation from the fs-gossip blog. They have lots of English translations from Russian interviews

http://fs-gossips.com/alexander-zhulin-ilinykh-needs-katsalapov/

Awesome! Thanks for this link!

 

[Frau Muller]

I found this puzzling too since his and Usova's style was similar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imx7xxl0TK8
When i saw P/C FD from last season U/Z's Mozart's Fantasy in D minor was the first comparison that came to my silly mind. The ballet on ice came back and i don't mind "unisex" or whatnot vs. "Man/woman" or whatever.

Yes! U/Z's FD to Vivaldi's Four seasons also comes to mind. Maybe Zhulin is just jealous.

 

[Coquelicot14]

Yes! U/Z's FD to Vivaldi's Four seasons also comes to mind. Maybe Zhulin is just jealous.

Reading this article, I wouldn't say that he said the unisex thing was a negative. Just a type of style of ice dancing duet.
I agree with him and P&C are my faves out of the current ice dance field.

I has to laugh at his description of S&K. I also find their choreography so saccharine sweet, I can't even watch them. LOL

 

[casken]

Sorry, you don't have a big kahuna at the moment. Deal with what you have.

Can you give this speech to the US pairs thread while you're at it?

 

[analia]

Let's be real, Ilinykh and Katsalapov are the only two great Russian dancers of the past decade, just as Virtue and Moir the only two great Canadian dancers, Papadakis/Cizeron the only two great French dancers and Davis/White the only two great American ones. The genius ratio is always about the same. Then you have very decent teams like Pechalat/Bourzat, or Chock/Bates, or Weaver/Poje, or Bobrova/Soloviev, who are destined to be second tier teams. In Russia, the particular problem seems to be that from a certain point on all the talented divas went into singles. Only the ones who are too tall or really couldn't jump thought to go into dance. Imagine Sotnikova as a dancer, or Sakhanovich? How incredible would Sotnikova/Bukin be? Frankly, I find it hard to believe when they were trying to find Bukin Jr. a partner, the best they could find was Stepanova.

By the way what's up with Yanovskaya/Mozgov? Why aren't they continuing? I think Z/G are great. I will be rooting for them. Sadly Zhulin hasn't choreographed a single memorable program since B/S's suicide pact.

 

[Ka3sha]

In Russia, the particular problem seems to be that from a certain point on all the talented divas went into singles. Only the ones who are too tall or really couldn't jump thought to go into dance. Imagine Sotnikova as a dancer, or Sakhanovich? How incredible would Sotnikova/Bukin be? Frankly, I find it hard to believe when they were trying to find Bukin Jr. a partner, the best they could find was Stepanova.

I will root for this to happen if she won't be able to return on the previous level to compete among ladies

By the way what's up with Yanovskaya/Mozgov? Why aren't they continuing? I think Z/G are great. I will be rooting for them. Sadly Zhulin hasn't choreographed a single memorable program since B/S's suicide pact.

No official info Only rumors that he had tryout with Popova but without any success.
I agree with you on Zhulin, though I liked Z/G's FD this year - not a masterpiece but pretty good one

 

[BittyBug]

I loved BobSol's Anna Karenina, or did Zhulin not choreograph it?

 

[Dobre]

I am a big fan of Zhulin's choreography for Nazarova & Nikitin's Escalier/Air/Tango Tchack free dance from last season as well as B&S's Anna Karenina. The latter is in large part because of the story--impossible for me to separate from the choreography. The former, though--it is creativity. About once every couple years, Zhulin just nails a program and often with a different team. I'm always looking forward to the next one, even though I never know where or on whom it will appear.

Just a fun sidenote from Worlds: Zhulin was singing along with Agafanova & Ucar's program music during the practice sessions. A&U and their new coaches were all very focused and doing their job at their own section of the boards, and Zhulin was in his own space doing his own job with N&N; but meanwhile, he was singing along with A&U's music.

 

[Tak]

By the way what's up with Yanovskaya/Mozgov? Why aren't they continuing?

Im out of the loop here. What happened with Y/M? Did they break up? It's true they had a dismal season, but they are young, no? Why not try a coaching change before they give up.

 

[cocotaffy]

Let's be real, Ilinykh and Katsalapov are the only two great Russian dancers of the past decade, just as Virtue and Moir the only two great Canadian dancers, Papadakis/Cizeron the only two great French dancers and Davis/White the only two great American ones. The genius ratio is always about the same. Then you have very decent teams like Pechalat/Bourzat, or Chock/Bates, or Weaver/Poje, or Bobrova/Soloviev, who are destined to be second tier teams.

I love the way you put it, so true. How many genius teams can we decently hope for, let's be real.