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Yuzuru Hanyu to be coached by Brian Orser

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Well-Known Member

    I am so glad you wrote this!

    When i read about people saying that about him i just shake my head... good at teaching quads and triples but not basic jumps... rediculous. Furthermore, the implication is that Hanyu just blindly chose Brian without knowing what strengths Brian has that would enhance Hanyu. Brian is not a good coach just because he's an olympic medalist. The guy is good.
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  2. Sylvia

    Sylvia Still recovering from Worlds...

    "Proof" can only be provided if and when a young unknown skater shows what he or she can do in competition. So yes, only time will tell.
  3. ProgramerUSFS

    ProgramerUSFS Active Member

    Could agree more. Well said. :)
  4. BittyBug

    BittyBug Living in a Kleptocracy

    Does he? He was successful with Kim Yuna, but she was such a talent she very well may have become a champion regardless of her coach. And that's one skater, not skaters.

    It's one thing to experience something oneself, and it's quite another to impart any lessons learned on someone else. And for me at least, Orser's reactions and attitude in the K&C when his students don't do well don't exactly inspire confidence that he has learned to deal with disappointment. JMO.
  5. jl22aries

    jl22aries Active Member

    PJ Kwong interviewed Brian around the time of Worlds and it gave wonderful insight into his coaching philosophy and shone a little light on the man himself. I know these segments are short and processed to sell, so how much can you really glean about the reality of his training technique, but I have to say in those short minutes I was really impressed by his warm but firm approach and, well gee golly I'll say it, if I were a skater in need of a coach, I'd be drawn towards him.
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  6. Katarzyna

    Katarzyna Well-Known Member

    Well, I think Hanyu's stamnia problems more likely can be attributed to him suffering asthma than to coaching situation / practice condition he has in Japan. I remember an interview where he stated that due to this he can't practice longer than 2 hours. - Fixing this problem might be even more difficult abroad than back home in Japan (at least it will cost more :bribe: to get proper health care in Canada).

    Beside from that I fear that it's a bit too early for Hanyu to make such a big move. I'd rather wanted him to make such a change in one or let's say two years. He is only 17 and will now live in a foreign country with a complete different mentality. I wonder if he'll be able to handel it, though I hope he will prove my concerns being wrong. :shuffle:
  7. ProgramerUSFS

    ProgramerUSFS Active Member

    I think you forget that Yuna came to him when she was only 15 years old, and he worked with her for many years before she became what you saw in the Olympics. In 2005 jr worlds she did a triple toe triple toe, and had issues with other triples as her score was very low, and she was a long way to doing a triple triple combo with a lutz. So I would say that the outcome of Yuna is five years of work by Orser and his team. Have any other skaters dedicated five years to the effort of his training other then Yuna?

    Other coaches had skaters who had similar jumps to Yuna in 2005, where were they in 2010 and why didn't they do the same with their skaters?
  8. seabm7

    seabm7 Well-Known Member

    Well, I remember the history slightly differently. IIRC, they started work together on a temporary basis during 2006-2007 season, then Orser decided to work with Yuna long-term after 2007 World.

    Concerning 3Lz-3T, it was not the original plan. They changed the combination from 3F-3T to 3Lz-3T because she got an edge call on her flip. Otherwise, they may have kept 3F-3T for the olympic season.
  9. lakewood

    lakewood Active Member

    Just to correct. YuNa met Brian for the first time in 2006 summer after she won 2006 Jr. Worlds, where she showed 3f-3t. Brian became her coach on Feb. 2007 a month before 2007 Worlds.
  10. bek

    bek Guest

    Programmer I do think people are being wrong about Orser, but you right now are being incredibly unfair to Kim and her previous coaches. Kim had incredible jumps before she ever stepped foot on Orser's door. First of all, Kim's score at Junior Worlds was not low. She had a bad short program because she fell on her triple loop. A jump Orser was never able to fix. In fact she landed it more as a Junior. She landed 6 gorgeous triples in her long program..She scored about 110.26 on her free skate which is a huge score back than from a junior. She was about almost 14 points higher in the free than the person who took bronze. Took second to Asada, who did an incredible jumping feat.

    Second as for the triple lutz/triple toe. Yu-na actually landed that combination in competition before she went to Orser. Here's the evidence. http://www.isuresults.com/results/jgpbul2005/jgpbul05_Ladies_FS_scores.pdf

    So she was doing that and the 3flip/3toe before Orser. Its just the why the scoring system works it didn't make sense for her to do the 3lutz/3toe a harder combo over the 3flip/3toe because it turned out to be the same base value in the end. She added it when she got ! on her flip.

    I think Orser did an amazing job with Kim, but Kim had incredible jumps before she went to him.

    Orser did help her with the flip though and other than the double axel, Gao now has a 3flip/3toe under him.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2012
  11. Sylvia

    Sylvia Still recovering from Worlds...

    Is there any new information about Hanyu's coaching change in the Japanese media?
  12. ProgramerUSFS

    ProgramerUSFS Active Member

    I had saw an article that she began with him at 15 years old. That would put them together during the 2005 jr worlds. This isn't true then, as I really don't know the history?
  13. bek

    bek Guest

    Kim was 14 at 2005 Jr Worlds, if she had been 15 she could have competed at the Olympics the next year. Her and Asada both had the misfortune of Sept birthdays. Story has always been she went to train at the Cricket Club in the summer of 2006 after she won Jr Worlds in 2006. It was the Korean coaches who were in the Kiss and Cry with her as a Junior, and even in the beginning of her Senior year... Orser did an amazing job with her but credit for those jumps really should go to those who worked with her before. He gets credit for helping her maintain it and improving the other aspects which is no small feat.

    Well he's not moving to Canada right away full time because he's still in school so that should give him time to adjust. As for doing it right now, it makes sense to do it right now. The Olympics are two years away, it gives him time to adj to training overseas and a new coach before the Olympic year.

    Hanyu is already an Olympic medal contendor and could very well have a serious shot at the OGM. If I'm the Japanese fed I have a feeling he may have a better shot than Dai because he's far more likely to challenge Chan technically. Yes Hanyu is young, but there are no guarantees that in 2018 he'll be healthy or a top contender. Remember everyone saying Tara could win in Salt Lake? You get a shot at an OGM/Olympic medal you take that shot and run with it because there's no guarantees that shot will be there again....

    Hanyu strikes me as someone who wants to be a champion and has a lot of drive, so I think he'll be okay. The first year he won't be exclusively in Canada which may help ease him into that transition too. By the next year, he'll be at the same age as many kids who go to college.

    Sylvia supposedly Hanyu is going to do press conference in a couple of days.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2012
  14. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    That seems right - Kim went to Toronto in the summer of 2006, shortly before she turned 16, and relocated full-time a few months later (source). Obviously Orser got a very accomplished skater to begin with; what I think he deserves a lot of credit for is helping her become a more polished and mature performer (though Wilson also played a major role) and maybe most importantly, getting her through the Olympic season, when the pressure on her must have been insane.

    How much of this would be applicable in Hanyu's case, I'm not sure.
  15. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    I can't wait to see it !
  16. bek

    bek Guest

    I think a lot of it can be applicable to Hanyu. Including the potential of better training conditions. There's something to be said for a coach who has been there done that when it comes to not only competiting as an elite skater, but also helping as star skater deal with the pressure/mental aspects of the sport.

    Hanyu is going to be facing far more pressure and expectations now than he's ever faced before, and I totally understand why the Japanese want him with a more experienced coach.
  17. EricRohmer

    EricRohmer New Member

    Orser coached Yuna for three years(2007.03~2010.03).
    Yuna requested to become her coach to Orser around fall 2006, but he declined a few times due to his ice show schedule and because he had not ever thought about job as a full-time coach until then.
    After Yuna‘s 2006 GPF win, Orser accepted the coaching suggestion.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2012
  18. ProgramerUSFS

    ProgramerUSFS Active Member

    I stand corrected and you are correct. I had found one news release that said she worked with him since she was 15, however when you look at the wiki on this it does state that she began skating in toronto in the 2006-2007 summer just before debut as a senior.
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    I was at Yu-Na Kim's first international junior performance ever (JGP Budapest) and she was doing all the triples already.

    The following season I was at JGP Bratislava and she landed 3lutz/3toe there IIRC.

    She had all her jumps before she switched to Orser.
    RunnersHigh and (deleted member) like this.
  20. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

    Off topic, but is this the girl you wrote about by any chance?

    She lists Orser and Ghislain Briand as her coaches and there's a video clip of her trying a 3A on a harness.
  21. just wondering

    just wondering Active Member

    ^^ That's who I was thinking they were talking about. She does have high jumps, but hasn't competed particularly well thus far. Of course that could change, and she could "spring" into the spotlight.
    Apparently, she is reconnecting her ties to the Philippines. Perhaps to ultimately skate for them, like Melissa B.
  22. ProgramerUSFS

    ProgramerUSFS Active Member

    Not really sure since I was not told her name. But they said that the coaches thought she might do quads some day because of her power and height of jumps. This girl is a baby, and I would have expected a more accomplished skater. Maybe their is another one. How many young skaters does he have, as they keep coming out of the wood work.
  23. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

    The site says she’s fifteen. It has a video clip where one coach does mention her quad possibility, which seems to me little more than publicity talks at this point. We might be seeing her competing at Junior Nats next year.
  24. ProgramerUSFS

    ProgramerUSFS Active Member

    I just looked at the stories on her web site. It mentions Christy Krall naming her. How is it possible that someone who learned to skate 4 years ago is doing even doubles let along thinking of these types of jumps. When I heard of this, I thought it was a skater that had been around skating for a while. Thinking someone like Mao would train for a quad is one thing, someone who started skating a few years ago is quite another. All I have to say is that if Orser gets this girl to land a triple axel in a competition after only skating this long, he would be the greatest coach that ever was. Now I am skeptical. :shuffle:
  25. bek

    bek Guest

    Miki Ando landed her first triple after only skating for two years. Jenny Kirk got them pretty quickly too. Some people are talented jumpers.
  26. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    Johnny Weir was like that, too - started skating at 12 and won Junior Worlds at 16, and he had some good results, both nationally and internationally, almost immediately. I've read that he was landing axels very early on and he must have gotten his triples pretty quickly. Chafik Besseghier also started skating at 12 and was doing triples within two years. In his case, he obviously still has other things to work on, including consistency.

    This, of course, is OT. Does anyone know when Hanyu's press conference is supposed to take place?
  27. RunnersHigh

    RunnersHigh Well-Known Member

    Yes, She did all 5 triples at her free program.

    It was not Bratislava but Sofia. ;)
    She did 3F-3T in Slovakia and 3F-2T, 3Lz-3T in Bulgaria. In an article, Yuna said she did that extemporaneously to redeem her mistake on planned 3F-3T.

    It also was true.
    However what important is NOT what she had then BUT how she maintain and improve them. In that sense, they - Brian, Tracy, Ghislain and all the coaches there - did really good job.

    Anyway, hope Hanyu ALSO could get on with them.
  28. EricRohmer

    EricRohmer New Member

    (little correction..)
    I know Ghislain was not in Yuna team.

    I heard it will be held on May, 6(sunday). :)
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2012
    RunnersHigh and (deleted member) like this.
  29. Leticia

    Leticia New Member

    There are more talented jumpers than her at the same age, with triples up to lutz.. I don't understand why people around her says she has the highest jumps in the world when clearly, Sotnikova or Gracie has more heights...
  30. fan

    fan Well-Known Member

    Sammi is a very talented skater - it is true that she did not have her doubles a few years ago and is now consistently rotating triples. She has grown very quickly, she has excellent work ethic. Orser/Briand and Geoff Dionisio all work with her (CC coaches tend to team-coach - produces a very collaborative/supportive atmosphere). She will likely be competing for the Phillipines going forward.