Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vash01, Dec 12, 2012.
Judgejudy is a very interesting person.
Yuna has to make it out of Nationals first.
Only one who could "beat" Yuna would be Tonya Harding... Then the rest of the girls in the competition would have half a chance.
I voted for Caro. If Yuna returns to her Olympic form I am not sure she is beatable, but I think that
a clean Caro can come closer than Mao or Ashley.
Kostner just scored 65 points in the Golden Spin SP with a 3T-3T and a 3 loop. I think she just proved she doesn't need to up her technical difficulty at all to remain a contender. And really, why would she now with the scores she's getting?
This is why I'm glad Kim is back. We should NOT be seeing 1980s jump content win World titles in this day and age!
Good luck to all ladies, ice is slippery and unpredictable. Anything can happen!
I like the fact Carolina attempted a 3Lutz during her latest FS, hopefully other ladies will slowly upgrade their content so this can be a serious sport again.
However, I strongly disagree with this acceptance to win by PCS approach. We generally don't accept this for the men, so why should we accept for the ladies?
Consider Kostner's latest FS that consist of just 1 clean 3T, 2 <, a 3Lutz step out (not even qualify for minimum TES), yet she still received higher PCS for that skate than Akiko from NHK who had the FS of her life there. Do you still think the system got the balance right? Does it make a fair competition? Would this be acceptable during the Olympics under even greater scrutiny and watchful eye of a world wide audience beyond this figure skating board?
There is a big difference between Golden spin and worlds/Olympics scoring. Look at who she was competing against. COP is not perfectly objective, as we have known for sometime.
I am not sure why Yu Na Kim even worries about doing the 3/3 in the SP any more. It is clearly not needed. She will easily get the PCS to boost her score. She should just do a 3lutz/2toe, 2axel and 3flip. She could even do a solo 3toe and still be right there. I would hate to see her punished for actually attempting technical content and lose to these ladies doing content from the early 90s.
By the way... why isn't Michelle Kwan on this poll... I am disgusted!!
May be she likes to challenge herself to do the most difficult things she is able to do. It's like what Elvis Stojko said (about the quad)- "because I can"
Your comment about the ladies from the early 90's is laughable. Some of those ladies were doing fully rotated 3Lutz-3toe, 3A-2t, 3A, etc. which is a stronger content than what they are doing now. Most of them were attempting at least a 3lutz without a combination.
Yu Na has never been the most consistent LP skater, even in her glory days. Best to do what she does best, kill the opposition in the SP, not just beat them, and give herself a cushion for potential errors/problems in the LP. It would be silly to drop the 3/3 from her SP, it is actually very consistent for her over the years, and she should want to give herself the biggest leads she can.
Did she? I saw her SP warm-up, SP, FS dress-rehearsal, FS warm-up and FS *LIVE* in Dortmund.
And I couldn't find it on her face.
Her success rate on 3/3, 3Lz, 3S, 3S-2T, 2A-2T-2L and 2A during the warm-up and dress-rehearsal was 100%.
Finding her own entry route, popped 3F twice at first but then hit them all.
Well... may be right on the basis of doing 3-3 is nothing to do with PCS and if she could deliver *IT* factors concerned with PCS to crowds and judges.
Do everything hard you can execute is the fundamental principle in any sports. (Love Shaun White cuz of the reason.)
Back to the topic, I believe everybody, whethere on the list or not, has the chance if her performance could be the best in the competition.
Scores from International B Competitions are not comparable with those on GP, Worlds, Euros.
That's 13 points below what Yu Na is capable of though. So, either Kostner ups her content or she very possibly has a large deficit to make up in the LP. And Caro is a less consistent LP skaters than Yu Na is.
I was being quite sarcastic while making a serious point at the same time. You are right about the comment about the early 90's being laughable and that illustrates my point even more. I should correct it to say "content from the 80s." Who thought this would be ladies skating in the year 2012?
The technical content has regressed quite a bit in the absence of Yu-Na but the upside is we're seeing more complete programs in terms of artistry, presentation, musicality, etc. I like harder content but (being a fan of 6.0 skating) I'd much rather see an inspired performance of lovely choreography performed with a decent spread of jumps...rather than a program full of perfunctory choreography that basically equates to skating from end to end reeling off as many triple jumps as allowed.
I'll take 6 or 7 triples without a 3-3 if the program is great and the jumps are clean. I'm not as concerned with 3-3s as some people are. Yu-Na's consistent 3-3 is a threat to everyone b/c she hits it more than 90% of the time and it immediately gives her a boost everywhere else. Without some sort of 3-3, no one really stands a chance against her technically unless she makes a mistake. If she goes clean, she'll win without question...if she makes mistakes, she opens the door but whoever steps through will have to be nearly perfect (if not 100%) to beat her and the only people who can beat a flawed Yu-Na right now are are Mao, Carolina and I'd say Ashley too...if they are 100%.
Point well taken. The sarcasm didn't come through, hence my misinterpretation of your post. I will stand by my comment about the 90's ladies though.
IIRC, the only time she botched the 3-3 in the SP at Worlds was in 2011 and she still placed 1st. The two times she hit the 3-3 but messed something else up, she was down in 5th (2008) or out of the final group (2010). So go figure.
I agree, she ain't dropping it from the SP. She's been including a 3-3 in the SP her entire senior career and she doesn't seem like the type to play it safe even though most of her competitors are attempting easier jumps.
And that's why Yuna is a legend and the other skaters are not. She's not playing it safe.
First of all, I love the programs that Carolina, Mao and Ashley are coming up with, I do think we're getting some extra artistry, intracacy, and performance level in exchange for the the somewhat lesser jump content. I thought Worlds was to be a close competition between these three and I didn't think I missed the lesser jump content.
But then YuNa debuted her programs, and I was reminded just how easy she made 3z-3t and 3F look, huge jumps with great flow and correct edges, effortlessly executed in SP and LP. I still think at this point Carolina/Mao/Ashley have more developed programs, more tailored to their particular music choices, and nuanced in the interpretation. But YuNa clearly still has everything that made her great...flowing edges, great flexibility, great speed and carriage, coverage of the rink. Her PCS will be great despite having less 'special' programs, her jumps are in a class by itself.
The others, despite wonderful programs, will have to rely on her mistakes if they want to win. Yuna had intentionally done easier spins at NRW, so that's some points she left on the table she'll likely take back by Worlds. I don't think it'd be so easy for Caro to add multiple lutzes/flips, for Mao to have lutzes/3axels or for Ashley to add 3-3s, and if they did, certainly not with the surety, consistency and quality of Yuna. Younger skaters like Liza, Gracie and Julia have the jumps, but they are miles away from Yuna in presentation, and deservedly should get much lower PCS.
After seeing NRW, I'm convinced it's YuNa's Worlds to lose. It's like she took us all back Vancouver 2010.
^ I think it's a little early to assert that Yu Na is in '09 - '10 form. While I think she is the favorite for a 2nd World title, I don't think that she's the sequined steamroller she was at Vancouver. Mao and Ashley are closer to her points-wise than Mao and Joannie were leading up to the 2010 Olympics.
Oh, I agree with you, like Yuna said, she's at 80%. But Mao isn't at 100% either, she had 3 triple axels in Vancouver, now she had neither 3A or any 3-3s. I don't think her improved artistry can make up for that, because Yuna can rack up the big PCS too. Carolina yet to prove she can deliver great skates with substantial jump content. I really admire all the improvements Ashley has made, but neither her skating skills or her jumps are at Yuna's level. So I still think this is YuNa's to lose.
But do you think Mao can have her 3A and 3-3s back in competition ? (serious question !)
^ Mao will do very well but w/o a 3x or 3-3's, I doubt she'll beat Yu Na if Yu Na is on.
No. Her jump content has been regressing, unfortunately, and she needs a lenient caller on her side. On the plus side, they have been giving her some greatly deserved +GOE on her footwork.
Carolina Kostner (just saw her "Bolero" the other day).
Never thought I'd say this, but imho the only one that can compete head on with Yuna Kim is Caro, jump for jump, move for move, but most importantly the *intangible*.
Carolina's jumps were far from perfect in that program. She did not land the 3Lz, and struggled with majority of her jumps. I don't see how she can beat Yu na based on that. If she improves and gets at least a 3Lz-2t combination, and lands most of her jumps, she may have a chance.
At this point I really don't think Mao can beat Yu na unless she gets her 3A back, and continues to improve her other jumps.