Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vash01, Jan 22, 2017.
No, but you can compare the quality of their skating. And Kostner wins by a mile.
They are competitors. They want to finish as high as they possibly can, and they are going to tailor their programs to maximize their scores. Once they found what works, they are going to use it, and add more to improve on that. Nothing wrong with it. They have plenty of opportunities to skate exhibitions for the love of skating.
It's a cop-out...
I did not say there is anything wrong with it. My point is some people should not romanticizing the skaters' choices. Like people attack Zhenia and the Eteri's girls for using tanos, backload, transitions and trash them for playing CoP game but then praise Javi for using the same style program for 5 years and call it "true art of skating". Give me a break!
I love Carolina, but please she is almost 30! How can you compare her to 17-18 years old skaters?
Look at Yuna, Mao, Carolina at age 17, did they do many transitions as Zhenia, Anna and other Russian girls? Did they land two 3-3 or 3-1-3 consistently? Did they skate clean back to back almost whole season?
Were the previous generation great? Yes they were. But they did not have to train the same as the current skaters. They did not even skate the same layout and did not have to follow the same technical requirements as today.
I'd say if Med still competed at age 30 and did as well as Carolina at European, then we can compare them.
I was actually in agreement with you.
She's the best at what matters : competing. Pogo impresses me. It she's not quite keeping pace with Evgenia. She's reached a level of consistency that defies belief. Her greatness isn't in the intangibles it's in all the things that a score can account for.
Isn't tough to imagine Carolina right now. We have not seen her for awhile. She could be great or maybe not? Anyone know? She certainly has experience.
You keep saying this, but Medvedeva didn't make any mistakes at Nationals. Unless you count putting an extra 3toe on her 3S3T a mistake.
Mao started her comeback great and look where she is now... Carolina can't even do a 3Lz in competition at this point.
That is not true. She can and did it at Italian nationals. She had it in her planned elements but decided to put 3T3T instead of it as it gets her more points.
She is a work in progress after 2 years were she was not allowed to train on ice.
Why should you not compare them if they skate at the same competition? They have to be compared as they skate at the same competitions now and now Caro is 30 and Med is 17. Now they should get the points as they deserve: Med is technical stronger and Caro is stronger in pcs
PCS is also about quantity and technique. Med has packed transitions/difficulties and Carolina much much less.
Ladies don't do 3A and quads like men, so it's not like you can walk around and do some quads without difficult transitions like most top men.
If Carolina lands 7 triples cleanly and consistently again, she will get highest PCS. Which it does not happen.
Sasha is Divine, the triple toe at the end of her triple-triple-triple combination was called underrotated and partialy downgraded. That was her mistake. Check the protocals.
Does your computer have YouTube?
It was called underrotated but it didn't count and likely did not affect the GOE that much. It was a very minor error in two brilliant performances she showed at Nationals.
Yes, my computer has You Tube but I have had absolutely no desire to watch old tapes of Miss Kostner's past performances.
Are you talking about Sasha Cohen? Did she do a 3-3-3 at the US nationals (in 2002/2006/2010?)? I was not aware of that.
Vash01, I was referring to the poster Sasha is Divine, not the skater Sasha Cohen. I was referring to Medvedeva's 3-3-3 combo at Nationals where the last jump was called underrotated. Yeah I forgot the 3rd jump didnt count anyway though.
That is actually a bit worrying for Medvedeva then since it means she in fact did have a perfect skate at Nationals and was still outscored in TES by Alina. If Zagitova improves her PCS by next year Medvedeva might end up losing her Oly Gold medal to her even if she skates cleanly.
I don't see Zagitova beating her if both skate clean because Med has better maturity. However, if we speculate beyond 2017 worlds, I think a rejuvenated Gracie Gold has a better chance of beating Med at the 2018 Olympics than anyone else. The pressure on Med will be tremendous if she wins worlds in 2017.
hm..this is her performances at ECH 2017
A lot of transitions with no speed at all, and not clear edges... Please
eh, I really think my utter boredom with it all is really due to finding Med utterly boring. I don't invalidate her wins, I just find her such a fridge break.
I wasn't at all bored by Kim leading up to Vancouver although I say the inevitability of it all wasn't anywhere near to as sure as people are saying it was. Mao could have easily won if things had gone differently and trust, had they both faltered JR probably would have been propped up to a home cooked win.
But even if Med is without a true rival, no Mao to her Kim, no Irina to her Kwan, I still find the comp between silver down to 10th fascinating. I had a blast in Boston, even if I was bored for 4 minutes of it.
Plus the whole "ice is slippery" thing keeps us viewers on our toes. No one's been "unbeatable" since dick button and Sonja Henie, and if amazing legends like g&g and the protopopovs can be beat, why wouldn't someone as lackluster as Med be beatable.
I think the worst thing about Medvedeva and why she isnt more interesting is her choreography by Ilia Averbuhk. He has become quite in demand, especialy in Russia, and his programs generally check of all the boxes to get very high PCS legitimately, but they are quite unbearable to watch sometimes. Which is kind of similar to what he was an ice dancer himself, technically solid enough, but some of the most uninspiring programs that were constantly ill suited to displaying his and Irina's best qualities of all the top teams. So it isnt surprising as a choreographer he is carrying on the same way. I think with a different choreographer who has an actual real artistic vision she could really shine in the future.
While I know Medvedeva is at this point a way better skater than Radionova, I still would rewatch a Radionova program before a Medvedeva one probably. If nothing else since laughing at the cheesiness of her work, and her weaknesses, while still admiring her passion and effort and heart she puts into it all is more enjoyable than a very clean and methodically perfect Medvedeva technical clinic.
IMO Gold will be happy and relieved if she so much as makes the U.S Olympic team next year. Especialy since if I were held at gunpoint and forced to guess with my life depending on it the U.S womens Olympic team of 2018, I wouldnt guess Gold as a member right now, even if the U.S keeps 3 spots which is no sure thing. Getting to the point of targetting and beating Medvedeva is way too far removed from where she is now to even think about, but if she ever managed to climb to that point in a year it would mean perhaps the greatest comeback in skating history, and probably Medvedeva having a sudden growth spurt that wrecks her consistency and technique. I dont think the pressure on her would it inself be enough, the girl seems close to impervious to it.
There has been a lot of discussion about Med's puberty, growth, etc. ar 17 she is not likely to have a growth spurt. Over time she may look bigger than she is now, but I am sure she can handle whatever challenges come her way. The only one I am not sure of is the Olympic pressure.
I guess I would have to live in Russia to get a better perspective, but I am not sure the added pressure to win ladies gold would be the same as for say an American, for the simple reason that has never been their personal jewel. Even today with it being their strongest event I imagine they far prefer a pairs or dance gold or medal if they can get than ladies. Morozova & Tarasov or Stolbova & Klimov pulling a minor upset and taking the pairs gold would thrill Russians much more than the ladies gold even today I imagine. Maybe the philosophy is changing given their current strengths though. It is kind of like the interest in reverse of a ladies champion in the U.S vs a dance or pairs champion, beyond a Blades of Glory movie.
She also wont have the pressure of being at the end of her career in possibly her last chance like Slutskaya had in both 2002 or 2006, or with the unique added pressure of very realistic and deeply desire possible gold sweep by the whole Russian team like Slutskaya had in 2002 and 2006 (no longer there before the ladies event in 02, but going into the Games for sure, like going into almost any major event for Russia beween 99-2006).
She will star have lots of pressure, but probably less than a dominant pair or dancer in Russia would have, or even Plushenko and Slutskaya in their later Olympic outings to win the Gold. Despite being so dominant and the overwhelming favorite. Plus as I said she seems impervious to pressure, like she has no blood in her veins when she competes at times.
Praying hard on my knees for a Osmond-Wagner-Miyahara podium,that is all I am allowed to share.
Its Tarasova & Morizov (you switched their genders ).
I don't think Russia is That dominant in pairs anymore. They will have some pressure but nowhere near what V$T faced i. 2014. I don't see a Russian pair win the OGM in 2018 although they are the ones I love.
Russiaon ice dance is so far away from what they were until 2006 that a bronze will be a miracle for them I think a top five finish fir B&S is the best they can do, so no pressure to win.
The Russian ladies OTOH are facing the pressure to win the OGM because they are the best in Russia and in the world right now. In Boston they kind of saved Russia from total futility. The pressure on them will be enormous, particularly in Evgenia.
two North Americans on a ladies' world podium in Europe? Wasn't 1973 the last time that happened?