Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by mustafinabars, Jan 13, 2013.
Abbott because of the GPF and since his National wins were more spectacular.
What show was that? I never heard of it. Either way I doubt it is replacing Survivor, Big Brother house, or the Kardashians anytime soon.
He had at least two seasons, on Bravo and Logo. Be Good Johnny Weir. It wasn't bad. He's definitely managed to make himself a D list celebrity outside of skating.
Oh that is good. I am not his fan but was made he was kept out of Stars of Ice because he was gay, so hoped he somehow could make the living he deserved but couldnt make out of pro skating.
Because he was gay? I've read a similar opinion somewhere else a while ago, but I doubt that can be the reason since for example Orser was gay and on Stars on Ice. Perhaps some of the comments of Weir weren't liked or his attitude. (before someone puts words in my typing which I never meant nor said, I like the skating of Orser as well as the skating of Weir and Abbott for that matter)
I doubt that any skater could make a living out of "pro skating" now ... SOI is down from sixty (60) shows a season to six (6); the number of Disson specials has been cut; and things like COI, cheesefests (all pro or pro-ams) and the serious pro events all have gone out of existence.
If you want to make a living off Pro Skating now you do it in Asia or Europe (especialy Asia).
I don't know, but I find myself watching Johnny's old programs and being moved.
Few will ever get to spend a few minutes of their life being this good.
I still watch his skating too. Some skaters are worth watching even years later.
In terms of winning, Weir had better career than Abbott. That was quite vexing because Abbott is a much better skater in terms of skating talent and artistic abilities. What Abbott has actually put on ice were something that Weir could only gasp and admire from the board.
I dont know. I guess Abbott because of the Grand Prix Final title.
I picked Abbott because of winning the Grand Prix final achievement.
Gonna pick Abbott because at least HE, to my knowledge, has never faked an injury just because something wasn't going his way...
Prevail my darling Abbott, PREVAIL!!!
It is a close call and kind of like comparing apples and oranges.
I would say that "on paper," it's Weir because he has a World medal and has been more consistent, but Abbott can pass him with another U.S. title or a World or Olympic medal. On a gut level, however, I think it's Abbott because his "career skates," like this and this are so much better than anything Weir has ever done.
I picked Abbott because of the Grand Prix final title. I think that gives him the edge on Weir as far as better career. Better skater is Weir by a landslide though. So much talent, he should have been a many time World Champion.
I like Abbott but Weir had a better eligible career because he was more reliable in the short program in all major championships (his reliable short kept him in top eight in all Olympics and worlds). Abbott's less-reliable short program record often landed him out of top eight after the short, sometimes out of top ten at worlds and in Vancouver.
Of course, things can change if Abbott has a good comeback next year.
This thread has been revived ... wish both their careers could be. Obviously, Jeremy realistically has the better chance of redemption this coming season.
No matter what, Abbott and Weir are both beautiful skaters. They have both suffered from competition nerves, and that appears to be one of the huge factors that has held both of them back from winning Olympic and World gold, which they both possess/ possessed the exquisite all-around talent to achieve. Talent, nerves, luck, politics, training, coaching decisions, programs, hard work and skate order ultimately are some of the major factors which determine overall career results.
Abbott and Weir both had potential and ability to dominate. I think Weir though has often been held back by politics. I think Abbott on the other hand had the political push behind him needed and all the ability but still failed. No doubt Weir is the better competitor of the two. He skated really well at 2004 Worlds, 2008 Worlds, 2010 Olympics, even 2005 Worlds. Abbott has never skated well when needed except maybe the 2010 Worlds.
^^ I get what you are saying and I agree to an extent -- more-so re your thoughts about Johnny. I wouldn't put down either Johnny or Jeremy very harshly and dismissively. As usual, a combo of factors are always involved in success and failure.
Keep in mind that both Jeremy and Johnny were never huge political favorites on the U.S. national scene (which in some instances hurt both of them internationally). It was Lysacek who usually received the USFS political favoritism jackpot. For example, Jeremy was slighted at 2011 Nationals after having a decent GP season. Yes, Jeremy stumbled in the fp at 2011 Nationals, but he'd been kept a bit behind Ryan B in the sp, which was an overly harsh judgment. I say that even though I too love Ryan B and it was nice to see him win a National title. Still, even though Jeremy had not performed well at Worlds for two out of three years, he should not have been left off the World team in 2011.
I think that decision impacted and undermined the confidence and stature of the U.S. men's team at a crucial point (with the two better known veterans, Evan and Johnny in semi-retirement). The U.S. had 3 slots in 2011 and should have made sure to include at least one guy who was better known and who had won senior medals internationally: at that point, the guy was Jeremy Abbott. I just think USFS miscalculated at a crucial transitional point. They signaled to the international community that they didn't have confidence in a guy who was 5th at Worlds in 2010 and who had already won 3 international medals in the 2010-2011 season.
The Johnny slights by USFS are ubiquitous. If not for his unique talent and perseverance after his 2003 U.S. lp debacle, Johnny would never have had a high level career. Famously he was actually told to his face by someone in the U.S. fed that they weren't planning to help him, when he was trying to make a comeback at regionals and sectionals, prior to 2004 U.S. Nationals.
Jeremy grabbed his first U.S. title after a strong win at GPF in 2008. Still, Jeremy had to skate his sp at 2009 Nationals very early and directly after Evan skated his sp. Jeremy managed to prove himself and he skated perfectly under those conditions. Perhaps what partly helped Jeremy is that the furor and the focus at that time was still more about Evan vs Johnny (but Johnny was recovering from an illness and got no relief from the judges who seemed unperturbed about pushing him to the wayside, even despite the fact he was the defending World bronze medalist at that time).
USFS surely were not against rewarding Jeremy at 2009 and 2010 Nats (as the up-and-comer/ late bloomer). Jeremy skated well enough to win overall at 2009 Nationals, whereas Evan faltered just enough to lose. Perhaps it would have been too much to give Evan the championship two years in a row with mistakes. Evan was on his game at 2009 Worlds, taking full advantage of Chan's foot-in-mouth disease. Jeremy did not perform as well and came in 11th again on his second trip to Worlds. Unfortunately, fair to poor Worlds results would become a pattern seemingly hard for Jeremy to break. Of course, it didn't help when he was not given a vote of confidence by USFS in 2011.
Still we are all just going by our own impressions and perceptions without the benefit of knowing all the details or of walking in these guys' shoes/ skating in their boots.
Both having reached top 10 in World and Olympic competitions is indicative that they are world class skaters though Weir may be slightly ahead if I were to measure their success with actual placings in Worlds and Olympics. Career wise? .... Well, Jeremy is still an amateur so one cannot tell whether he will have a more or less 'successful' career than Weir. Looks like Weir is heading towards celebrity and show skating where Jeremy has shown a lot of promise in choreographing. Interesting talented young men.
Abbott because of the Grand Prix final title which is a bigger achievement than just a World bronze. Also his U.S titles should get much more credit than Weir as the level of skating and competition was much higher.
2004 US nationals, which Weir won, was one of the best skated US nationals in recent history.
Surprised Weir is winning this poll. Abbott still has time to change that with more achievements though while Weir no longer has any hope to do anything more in the sport even if he wants to compete.
I agree. Abbott at his best would have easily won gold at Vancouver. If he can land the quad in the SP and skate a LP similar to his 2010 and 2012 FPs, IMO he deserves to be at the top at Worlds this year (although the judges will probably disagree and still put mistake-ridden Chan at the top). At his best he should be the best in the World. Weir, though a unique skater and contribution to the sport, is not the same.
This is a poll on who's had a better career, not who's had more potential. Many skaters with potential never made worlds for various reasons.
With his 4th U.S title vs only 3 for Johnny, I would rate Abbott for sure as having the better career now. Neither have an international legacy of any kind. Abbott has the Grand Prix final win and Weir the World bronze, which are about the same (I would rate the Grand Prix title higher but who cares, their biggest career worth is all Nationalistic based).
Neither one has a great international record. Obviously Abbott now has the better nationals record.
Weir will be remembered for a long time for his uniqueness and his off-the-ice activities. I expect Abbott to be remembered as a "What could have been" by Americans and not remembered by anyone else.
He still has time to change that. His short program would put him atleast top 3 if he does it at the Games. He must turn in a much stronger long program to ever medal though, unless it is a messfest like last years Worlds.
LOL. I was just thinking that this thread would probably be rehashed after Abbott's 4th National title, and I agree, Jeremy now clearly has the better career.