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Which 2 U.S men will make it to Sochi

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by judgejudy27, Apr 6, 2013.

Which 2 U.S men will make Olympic team

Poll closed Jan 31, 2014.
  1. Aaron

  2. Miner

  3. Dornbush

  4. Miner

  5. Lysacek

  6. Abbott

  7. Farris

  8. Brown

Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    IMO. The team will be about the 2 US men who hit a quad and 3x. So, probably Max and any one of Ricky, Ross, Adam, Jeremy and Josh
  2. fscric

    fscric Active Member

    Adam? Does he have a quad?
  3. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    if that is the requirement it definitely wont be Adam. Old past his best Evan even has a better shot to pull that off. Adam has a hard enough time managing the 3x on its own.
  4. misskarne

    misskarne #AustraliaForTheTeamEvent

    I don't understand the hype about Dornbush. He doesn't seem any better than any of the others at this point. I'm really struggling to link up the splatfest that I saw at Nationals with people saying he's a lock for the Olympic team.

    Anyway, a year is a long time. Anything could happen. I can tell you who I don't want to see on the team: Abbott and Lysacek. Abbott is a lovely skater but how many chances has he blown now? And for Lysacek to just swan in after not being bothered to compete for four years and take an Olympic spot is pretty criminal IMO.

    I'm really keen on Max Aaron. He seems to have a very solid mindset. He did pretty well at Worlds for a first-timer and held it together when he made a mistake. But of course who knows how he will deal with the pressure of being the USFSA's leading man next year? It's a big jump from a couple of Senior Bs....
  5. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Dornbush has only 10 votes out of many voters, and is sitting only 5th on this poll. I doubt anyone is thinking he is a "lock" for the team, lol!
  6. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    I don't believe anyone said that anyone among U.S. men is "a lock" for the Olympic team, although with his quad consistency, Max is obviously the one with the most votes in this meaningless poll at the moment.

    What is it you dislike the most about Dornbush, misskarne? No way Dornbush is being "hyped" anywhere that I can see. He's just being respected and given credit for the talent he in fact possesses. IMHO, if anyone is receiving a teensy weensy bit of uber-hype here at this point in his career, it's Joshua Farris. I think Josh is a wonderful skater with tremendous potential that may yet surpass that of Richard Dornbush, but let's just hold our horsies a bit longer, because the race is not even near the horizon yet, forget about the horses being in the starting gate. :p

    Yes, and Max is a big jumper too, so the leap from senior Bs was not an obstacle for him in any way. Max has proven his strength as a solid competitor. The most challenging difficulty for all the U.S. guys is and for the foreseeable future will always be U.S. Nationals.

    JJ, request to stop nitpicking on Adam Rippon, includes you!
  7. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

    One could argue that giving him 4CC 2012 over all the skaters that beat at Nationals 2012 contributes to the feeling of hype, though that's certainly not Dornbush's fault.
  8. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Re Dornbush (again - along with Max and Ross) -

    He scored 239.99 at Finlandia (with the Quad tripled in the SP; 3-3 became a 3-2 in the SP) which is the highest score by a US man this season. But, if you don't like counting that score because it's a Senior B competition ...

    At his last competition, 2013 4CCs, his score in the SP was 83.01 (with a hand-down on the 3x; included a fairly big GOE of 1.43 on the 4T; partial SO from the Japanese crowd). I didn't check but wouldn't this be the highest score by a US man in the SP this past season? In the LP, he scored 151.03 (with a near fall on the 4T; popped 3x / no 3-jump combo; two step-outs). His total was 234.04 which makes him the 3rd highest internationally scoring US man all season in big ISU competitions, only just a few points behind a less flawed Ross at NHK (who was flawless in the LP) and Max's 2 scores at 4CCs and Worlds.

    His Quad attempts, while less successful than Max's attempts, were probably on par with Ross's attempts. Additionally, Ross ended the season poorly in regards to the Quad while IMO, Ricky improved on his Quad attempts. He also attempts 2 Quads like Max in the LP while Ross does 1 Quad. Ross is probably superior in posture and stroking, power generated across the ice but Ricky has good height and position on his jumps, plus difficult spins. I also think Ricky is better at working CoP and backloading the LP than Ross. He also projects his musicality and choreography to the audience and judges better than Max or Ross (but of course not as well as someone like Jeremy).

    So, I don't think he's #1 but he could very easily get there if he avoids injury, illness and some of the weird issues that plagued him the last 2 seasons. Thus, I think the competition for the 2 spots would be among Max, Ricky, and Ross.

    I think if Jeremy has a typical season, he will finish behind the aforementioned and not be a factor for anything besides a 4CCs slot. Of course, we always hold out hope after all these years that Jeremy will even somewhat realize his potential, in which case, he would probably get a slot or win. But, this is his last season most likely and anything other than scintillating will keep him off the Olympic team.

    I assign the outside spoiler labels to Adam and Joshua, but their road is a harder go: Adam is less likely to hit a Quad than Max, Ricky or Ross at this point but that LP is a beauty and a good start. That is why despite the last 3 seasons, he still has an outside shot. Joshua might still be considered a little too young whose time is 2018, and his Quad is now MIA (even if he nails everything else) Thus, the judges might keep him back. Strong programs next season w/ a steady Quad will put him in the mix, though.

    I don't think we will see Evan or Johnny. Ever.

    As for the rest, they're too far behind all of the aforementioned. Of the rest, Keegan looked good at some of those Senior B comps this past year, but was a disaster at Nationals. Jason finished on a high note at Jr. Worlds, but is just getting the 3x and might just do the Junior circuit again, which would IMO disqualify him from one of the 2 team slots. Armin has done what he can to improve by going to Colorado Springs to work w/ Christy Krall, but he just can't seem to deliver. I fear he's been lost in the shuffle and would probably do well to finish in the top 10 or maybe make the final group and get a 4CCs slot at best.
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
  9. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

    If you look at the results from Nationals, there is a 21 point gap between 8th (Jason) and 9th (Brandon). Unlike the 15 point gap between 4th (Farris) and 5th (Rippon), I think that this divides the contenders from the pretenders. So I would take those 8: Aaron, Miner, Abbott, Farris, Rippon, Dornbush, Johnson, & Brown, and add in Lysacek to tell you the real contenders. No serious contenders in men are moving up from the Junior level, so these would be the only ones to consider. 1st-4th seem to have the largest chance to make the team while those below the 15 point gap (Rippon, Dornbush, Johnson, Brown) have to do perfectly do be considered. Let's see what it would take for each man to make the team:

    Aaron: Similar performance from this last season, probably can make 1 more error because of an established reputation.
    Miner: 2 clean programs, after faltering at Worlds, USFS needs to see more from him
    Abbott: He can make a few small mistakes, but too many and he's in trouble. If he makes a mistake in the SP he'll need a clean FS to go to Sochi
    Farris: He skated pretty much perfectly this last season, so if he does well on the GP he'll have to skate the same programs from last year to be considered. If he has the quad in both programs, look for him to make a serious run at the top 2 spots.
    Rippon: 2 Clean programs. He's made too many mistakes in the past to be considered with anything else. A quad would seriously (obviously) help his case.
    Dornbush: Also would need 2 clean programs. If he has 2 quads in the FS again, he can make a mistake on one, but would need a few mistakes from the top men.
    Johnson: Clean skates AND a quad. He hasn't tried one yet, but if he can pull off two clean programs with at least a quad in the free, he could realistically make the team.
    Brown: I'd say the same as Johnson. It's a bit early in his career for him to make the OLY team so he'll have to make a serious showing at nationals WITH a quad. He also would likely need some help from the other men in order to make it to Sochi.
    Lysacek: He has to show up at pre-nationals competitions. Show that he still has the consistency that he was so well known for, and show a quad. He can make a mistake in the FS.

    Percentage odds IMO:

    Without Lysacek
    Aaron: 40%
    Abbott: 35%
    Miner: 5%
    Farris: 5%
    Rippon: 5%
    Dornbush: 4%
    Brown: 4%
    Johnson: 2%

    With Lysacek

    Lysacek: 40%
    Aaron: 25%
    Abbott: 20%
    Miner: 3%
    Farris: 3%
    Rippon: 3%
    Dornbush: 3%
    Brown: 2%
    Johnson: 1%

    What would be totally awesome is if someone built some sort of simulator for things like this. USFS officials could commonly visit their practices, for the top contenders in each division. At least twice a month. They'd record it all, write down everything they see, watching at least 2 of each program while they were there. They'd determine the approx GOE and UR's of each jump and a ballpark figure for PCS each time. All the data would go into a system that would then breakdown averages for each competitor. They could then put these figures into a simulator to determine how many times out of 100 a skater would score at a top 8 world level. This could potentially aid them in determining a world team.
  10. pinky166

    pinky166 #teamtrainwreck #teamdiva

    Did I not say Jason was great at JW in my post above? I believe I did, and yes, his FS at JW was clean and beautiful and he hit all his jumps, but that was not the way he skated that program during the rest of the season. People I think get too excited over one good performance, or program even, from a skater and seem to jump to big conclusions. I was merely pointing out the reality that Jason's wonderful JW FS was not par for the course of this season. His 224 at JW was the only international event he broke 200 points for this season, and while 224 is obviously way above 200, it notes a significant jump from everything else he put out. It's the same deal with Ross at NHK, his FS at NHK was great, but it was much better than anything else he put out this season. Also worth noting for both skaters I mentioned, they both did not have clean or particularly great SPs at the events where they had the great FS programs so that speaks to another matter of putting it all together at a competition. For Jason, it is likely his good performance at JW was indicative of progress he has made on the 3a, but considering the other skates and scores he put up this season, I'm not so sure the big jump can be attributed entirely to this and not partially to a situation of "having a great skate on the right day". Of course, it gives us an idea of what he's capable of, but that's a different kettle of fish.

    For Ross, where his best skate came so early in the season, the skate/score seems more like an outlier or matter of peaking too early in the season since he did not skate nearly as well in any of his competition FS programs that followed.

    As for Josh, I agree he is not artistically that strong yet. His jumps are great and he has very strong spins and nice body lines, but his programs and projection in particular do have a lot of room for improvement. That's sort of why I'm being a bit harsh on Jason - because Joshua is still beating him handily internationally at this point (4 points at JW, 13 points at JGPF), and their PCS are very comparable, so that's more why I think Jason, too, is still a work-in-progress artistically like Joshua, and then additionally, he's more of a work-in-progress from a technical standpoint. Some seem to think his artistry is that of a top senior man already with which I would not agree - he has the artistry of a top JUNIOR man but he still has a long ways to get to the level of an Abbott or Takahashi, or even Hanyu who is the same age. If he were that strong artistically it would take a lot more than a popped flip and a waxel for a skater like Hino to beat him, and objectively speaking, Josh was a bit of a mess at the JGPF especially in the FS where he was doped up on Benadryl and made many errors, and he still beat Jason by 13 points, and Kovtun beat Josh by another 11 points and beat both of them in PCS. So artistically they BOTH still have work to do.

    The difference in situation of Josh was that he had a clean SP in 4/5 of his big competitions this year (and his biggest error was a stepout on his 3a at JGPF) and delivered 3 very strong FS programs (Lake Placid, Nationals, JW) which scored quite well (146, 165, 152 respectively), so there's more ground to go off of to determine what one can expect out of a typical competition skate for him compared to the one-program wonders.

    Dornbush's great SP at 4CCs may have been an outlier, but he also had a great SP at Finlandia, and delivered a few solid FS programs this season between Finlandia, NHK, and 4CCs. Plus his scores with mistakes are what's encouraging, he cleans up those errors and his scores can be huge!

    Rippon we will see but he really needs the 3a solid AND a quad to be considered which is a big ask because we all know how those quad attempts were looking in the 2011-2012 season when he last was attempting them :shuffle:

    It will be exciting to watch and I am interested to see what happens re GP assignments and such.
  11. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

    You're giving guys like Rippon, Dornbush and Miner - guys who have been to WC - only 2-4 percentage points more than guys like Johnson, who - with all due respect - has been a perennial cellar dweller at Nationals until this year? Even this year he was pretty low after the short, but moved up with a fantastic freeskate.

    I'd give some of Lysacek and Abbott's percentage points to Miner, Farris, Dornbush and Rippon; I'd even throw a few points at Brown. Lysacek's biggest advantage is his mental game; he rarely chokes; still his jumping abilities are totally unproven at this point, having been out of competition for three season. Meanwhile Abbott has totally proven himself...to be totally unreliable.
    Sparks and (deleted member) like this.
  12. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Yuzuru, Medvedeva, T&M, Shibs, P&C

    Although it defies logic, my heart says - Abbott for one of the two spots. The second spot goes to Max Aaron because he can land the jumps (unless he has a totally down season next year). Lysacek may not be a bad choice if none of the youngsters deliver. He won't win the OGM but he can have a respectable placement because he does not choke.
  13. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Aaron, Lysacek
  14. misskarne

    misskarne #AustraliaForTheTeamEvent

    Well, for starters, I don't dislike Dornbush at all, I never said that. I'm just puzzled as to why his name seems to keep popping up as an Olympic team contender - with some fans in here rating him higher than Miner! I find his skating a little zzzzz but all credit to him for going for a two-quad program, skating after Max at Nats can't have been easy!
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  15. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

    I actually ended up voting for Aaron and Dornbush, even though I gave him such low odds. I see him defying those odds and making the OLY team!
  16. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    I am honestly surprised Lysacek has as many votes on this poll as he does.
  17. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    I think there are a lot of people in Ricky's corner, and Ross has his supporters too. I've heard some fans say the same thing about Ross that you are saying about Ricky, but I disagree with you and with them. I happen to like both guys, but I'm probably a bit more partial to Ross. I kinda felt initially that Ricky was being rated higher, perhaps that was because his break-out lp was such a success. But I think they both have strengths that overall tend to equal out. Ricky and Ross made a splash on the senior scene at the same time in 2011, although in that season, Ross was skating on the senior GP and Ricky on the JGP, and Ricky later won the JGPF. And, of course that was the season Ricky's Sherlock Holmes suited him so well and he was skating with a lot of confidence. Ricky has had bad luck the past two seasons, but his showing this year at 4CC demonstrates that he has some respect with the judges. Ricky did the best he was able at Nationals this year, but he was under the weather. Sure there are no excuses in figure skating.

    As both Ross and Ricky have been trying to incorporate quads, their consistency has suffered, despite Ross being overall a lot more consistent until recently. I think some fans see Ricky as a more well-rounded skater, but I enjoy watching them both and Ross has kind of grown on me. They both need to further develop, and I just feel trying to work in training the quad while at the same time dealing with the pressures of the spotlight and also working on discovering your own unique style is a lot to handle, especially in the U.S. field where there is so much depth and skaters don't have the luxury of time to improve at the international level. The young up-and-comers tend to have a small window where if they don't shine quickly, their prospects are up and down (e.g., Adam, Stephen Carriere, Brandon, and now Ricky and Ross -- in addition, Armin, Doug and Keegan have had very few international opportunities).

    Once again, in hindsight, I felt more-so in 2011 that USFS made a mistake not sending Jeremy Abbott to Worlds for momentum, continuity and veteran presence. He'd had a good showing on the GP that season, and so scoring at Nationals IMO was not a well-considered result. By sending Jeremy, it would have taken some of the pressure off Ryan and Ricky (and Ross would not have been set back either from having had a satisfying Nationals and being motivated for the next season). Perhaps then, there might have been that third spot still available for Ross to make the World team in 2012.

    Even though Ross and Ricky performed well at 2011 Worlds, neither had quads and they were newbies whom the judges did not exactly treat fairly. And of course Ryan was not highly regarded internationally and he didn't perform to his best level. Therefore the third spot was lost, and in the international men's field, it's gonna be tough getting it back.

    Fortunately for Jason and Josh, they are very good at an early age and are receiving some early widespread public recognition while at the same time being able to gain a lot of junior international experience before having to make it or break it on the senior international scene. I think that's a good thing, although timing-wise Josh and Jason will surely not want to remain the young guys in-waiting for too long. But again, that only adds to the pressure for slightly older top contending guys, as I said.

    All that to say the upshot is: If Ricky comes back strong with more consistent quads, he'll have just as much opportunity to make the Olympic team as any of the top U.S. guys. What makes you think differently?
  18. misskarne

    misskarne #AustraliaForTheTeamEvent

    I don't think any differently. It just amuses me is all. I personally didn't see an Olympic skater in him this season. But each to his own and I'll be more than happy to see him come back strong next year and make Nationals a true bloodbath.
  19. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

    Agree. Barring a disaster (and those do happen) Aaron is probably as close to a lock as you could get. Beyond that it'll come down to Miner, Farris, see how Dornbush and Rippon look (this was the first Nationals where I rather liked the latter)...I think Brown and Johnson are looking at 2018. I am not a hater, but I don't see Lysacek really coming back, though if anyone can do it, he might. And I agree about Abbot. When he's on, he's on, but too many times he's gotten to the big show and his brain got the better of him. Unless he absolutely destroys the rest of the field, I think this year's placement was a message they're done with him.
  20. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

    I think Aaron's consistency on 4S will help him a lot next season. However at nationals 2014, Aaron will have a big target on his back and i wonder if he can stand the pressure. I hope he can

    I hope Abbott doesnt place 2nd only because even at his best he will not be in top 5. Therefore i hope someone like Josh Farris gets to Olympics so that he is on the senior scene as long as possible so he'll be more prepared for 2018 olympics.
  21. pinky166

    pinky166 #teamtrainwreck #teamdiva

    Miner I think is sort of like the Rachael Flatt of the men. While his achievements are great, I almost feel like he's over-achieved his potential in a way. Top 6 in the World as a goal was a bit delusional IMO, his jumps just aren't that high quality and he's way too stiff. He was perfect at Worlds 2 years ago and was 11th - that was before quad mayhem and before the international field was so strong. His edging is good and the spins are strong but there's really nothing else there to push him to the next level, and when he doesn't hit everything cleanly he's definitely a 2nd tier skater. On the skating lesson podcast they were even saying they wondered if Ross told his coaches that his goal was top 6 because they thought that was seriously overreaching, and even went so far to say that they could see him being out of the top 6 at Nationals next year even. I think they are kind of on target. Ross makes a few mistakes at Worlds and gets totally buried into 14th place. Without a technique overall I think he's going nowhere fast and could be headed for a Mroz-like downward trajectory. Also considering his age I have no idea why he waited so long to start training a quad. Brezina, Fernandez, Amodio, etc. are around the same age but a few years ahead of him in terms of technical mastery, so for now Miner is playing catch-up and unless he has some kind of major breakthrough I fear that is going to be the name of the game for as long as he continues.

    Dornbush is inconsistent but I don't feel like he's a 2nd tier skater, or at least he has the potential to move into the top echelon internationally if he can put it all together. He has better jump technique than Miner and is much freer in his movement and more animated in his performance. Plus he's had the quad in his arsenal for longer and the 3a too, and also can make mistakes and still score/place pretty well which Miner clearly does not have the luxury of doing (except maybe at US Nats thanks to inflated PCS).
  22. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

    I only voted Aaron.
    Have no idea at this point which one of a few other men has a better chance to go to Sochi. Last year after Finlandia, I thought Dornbush would become the US male skater no. 1 but he didn't even make the podium at Nationals. Abbott has the components on his side but he's been rather weak technically this past season. The quad is not a reliable jump yet for either Miner or Farris and none of them can come even close to Abbott on the components mark.

    Lysacek - Has anyone seen him or heard of him practicing lately? Methink Evan would be supposed to have resumed his training by now if he were really serious about competing.:confused:
  23. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    pinky, your latest post is spewing out a lot of stuff Dave and Jenny are erroneously dismissive of about Ross, in addition to your own perceptions. I mainly agree that Ross at this point needs to regroup and especially to loosen up and define his style on the ice. Perhaps taking some dance and movement classes would help Ross.

    In regard to Ross waiting this long to train quads, I don't think that's a valid critique -- you could say that about a lot of U.S. guys. And none of us know for sure that many haven't been training quads for awhile, but only started competing with them recently. The other clear factor is that Ross and Ricky both were fortunately or unfortunately thrust upon the senior international scene fairly quickly in 2011 without the back-up of a strong veteran presence on the U.S. team, and they were harshly/ unfairly judged for laying down solid performances.

    I think it's commendable that Ross committed to consistently putting the quad in both his programs this season. That's the only way to get used to doing them, and hopefully to master them.

    I think a lot of people err in selling Ross short, and Ricky too for that matter. It's pretty cool that Meryl and Charlie as well as his other teammates are so supportive of Ross. From my perception, Ross is an outstanding young man with a strong character. I like his coaches, Mark and Peter too, and I hope they are able to regroup together, think outside the box and come back with something special next season, when Nationals will take place in their own backyard. :)
  24. pinky166

    pinky166 #teamtrainwreck #teamdiva

    That's true the homecrowd could work in Ross's favor next year. He has a lot of fans in the Boston area. He doesn't do much for me but he does have potential and has the goods to be a factor when he nails everything like we saw at NHK. I think he could definitely make the team I just don't see him as a likely medal threat at the World level in the future - but if Lysacek can win the OGM then who knows, I didn't think Reynolds was going anywhere either then he won 4CC in a deep field and was 5th at Worlds after actually getting judged fairly so Ross could surprise. I think I would admire him more too if he could address his weaknesses like the stiff arms and upper body and the muscled, swingy technique jumps. His spins and edges have improved a lot over the past couple of seasons though so there is hope that he will improve in these areas as well. Mostly I just find him a bit bland and feel that Farris can already match or exceed him in all areas (except for maybe speed where many lesser skaters can beat Josh) despite being 4 years younger, so for that reason I feel like Farris is maybe a better "investment" if that makes sense because he is significantly younger but developmentally at about the same place in terms of technical and artistic/PCS development, so there is more hope for the future. Idk.

    Richard I think is really underrated by a lot of fans but I do agree it would help his case if he could start skating clean or at least close to clean more often. He's gotten a bit of a headcase rep, and he has been inconsistent, but the issue with the warped boots and ankle injury and flu at Nats gives me hope that maybe the issue isn't between his ears and that he can actually get it together and regain his 2010-2011 form, but with quads. I'm more hopeful of his chances to bounce-back or gain consistency than I am for someone like Abbott because 1.) Abbott's age is working against him and I think we're seeing signs his body is starting to poop out on him, which is bad news especially with the quad being so important right now and 2.) Abbott has been inconsistent/headcasey for a lot longer than Dornbush has and though he too has had a fair share of injuries and boot problems too, there have been plenty of times when he failed to deliver despite being presumably perfectly healthy, or healthy enough to have not mentioned an injury/illness/equipment problem of any sort. So we will see. Dornbush also needs to work on refining his movements and posture/carriage, but that is not so difficult to address, and I do think he has a distinct style among the current crop of American guys which can play in his favor. Most of the other guys are classical in style, or really artsy-fartsy, then Max is like a dynamo, but Ricky is different, more animated, charismatic, and character-driven in his performances compared to the others and I like this about him. His programs are usually unique and set to music that isn't horribly overused or generic. So we shall see.
  25. J-Ro

    J-Ro Active Member

    I'm biased: I skate with Ross Miner. I know how he trains. He will hit his peak at just the right time to make the Olympics. He has the right frame of mind to do it.
  26. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    I'd love for the team to be Miner and Aaron.

    No idea who it will be though...
  27. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    I am going to remake this poll in November or December and add onto it Mahbanoozadeh, Weir, Rippon, and Johnson to it as you might as well have everyone of note. However if anyone makes a somewhat decent impact I would add them and take out 1 or 2 of those.
  28. J-Ro

    J-Ro Active Member

    When Ross is left to his own devices, his programs are much more creative and musical. He plays guitar and has a great musical sense. The problem is that his coaches do not have any musical sense whatsoever and for the past few years, he has deferred to them and his programs have not been that interesting and the music has been uninspiring. All those who train with his coaches use the same rehashed music that just gets passed around from one skater to another--and the music tends to be uninteresting, bombastic, and nothing that would ever inspire movement. I swear that he has made it as far as he has in spite of his coaches.
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  29. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    I believe him. Ari Zakarian said, Lysa had quad, and he also said he was in good shape, then Evan is injured.
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
  30. J-Ro

    J-Ro Active Member

    Ross Miner could do a lot better if he had a coaching change. He's been with his current coaches for about 10 years--since he was intermediate, I think. I watch them at the rink and I don't see them as a good fit any more. The choreographer that his coaches bring in isn't doing him any favors, either. Sadly, I don't think the split will happen.