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Where would Sasha have landed in Vancouver with her SP performance @ 2010 Nats?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by olympic, Jun 5, 2010.

  1. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    She wedged herself in between Mirai and Rachael at Nats [who both made the final group], with little comp time. Figuring that she could've refined it a little more, where do you think this performance would've landed her in Vancouver?
  2. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

    Not too high, I'm afraid. She probably would have done well in the SP -- maybe 4th or so? -- but dropped significantly in the LP. A good SP score might have kept her in the top 10, but I can't say even that for sure. I love her and I wish she could have pulled off a return, but I don't think she had the physical or mental strength at this point.
  3. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

    Where does Sasha usually land?
  4. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

    I think her SP from Spokane would have landed her in 4th place in Vancouver, right behind Rochette. I can't imagine her jumps would have gotten very good GOE, and to be honest, I think Rochette would have edged her on PCS too.

    As far as an overall result, I would say anywhere from 8th-10th place, maybe even a bit lower.
  5. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

  6. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

    oh not this again...she said at the very beginning that she hoped to get "a medal" in Vancouver. That Sp may have given her a decent shot at Bronze but it would have required her to skate the FS of her career, most likely. That's based on how there were 0 falls among the final group of LP skaters.

    ETA: In discussions like this, one is always assuming a LOT. That she would have actually made it to Vancouver (i.e. not WD due to injury), that she would have skated the same, that other skaters would have skated exactly the same...not to mention if she made the final group, that would have kicked one of the skaters out of it, which might have affected the scoring, etc, etc.
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2010
  7. Really

    Really I need a new title

    That was my initial thought...*coughduffcough*
  8. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    I am guessing 4th perhaps. Then dropping like a stone in the LP to about 9th or 10th. I cant see her getting through a clean long program by any miracle in Vancouver as she clearly wasnt anywhere near fit or prepared enough even by Nationals so close to the Games (plus her history). I dont think she would have beaten Rochette in the SP when Rochette ended up only a couple points behind Asada's clean skate with a triple axel combo. Also I am pretty sure Sasha's SP score would have been lower than Nationals for even an improved skate.
  9. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    I was also guessing 4th just ahead of a somewhat wonky Ando. I mentioned the SP specifically because in this phase of the comp, she would've been competitive and that makes for an interesting discussion
  10. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    In any case I am glad the U.S sent the 2 they did to the Games as both finished better in the end than I think Sasha would have.
  11. MOIJTO

    MOIJTO Banned Member

  12. pinky166

    pinky166 #teamtrainwreck #teamdiva

    7th in the short, behind Mirai ahead of Kostner. Sasha would have gotten an edge call for her lutz which she didn't get at nationals (though clearly she flutzes) and her other jumps were tight and possibly two-footed, she wouldn't have garnered much +GOE.
  13. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

    Not sure. 4th or 5th in the short, I guess, but she would have dropped in the FS, maybe even out of the top 10 (not overall - just in the FS).
  14. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

    I think I agree. I don't see how they would have put Sasha ahead of Mirai, who skated very solidly. But Mirai and Kostner were only separated by tenths of a point, so to squeeze Sasha in between them would have been impossible unless they had scored Kostner (and those below her who were also separated by fractions of a point) lower, which could have affected the overall point totals. So who knows where Sasha could have finished overall, but I doubt it would have been anything more than barely squeaking into the top 10.
  15. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

    Into the hands of David Pellietier.

  16. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

    I was hoping Sasha would make the team. But no.
  17. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

    I'm still confused over how Ando and Flatt placed 4th and 5th given their lackluster SP performances in Vancouver, so perhaps Cohen with her technically shaky skate could have managed 4th somehow with that very forgiving tech panel during the Olympic ladies' SP. IMO, Miki should have placed 5th or 6th and Rachael 7th at best in that SP.
  18. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

    You must be smoking crack. No way would she have beaten Kim, Asada, or Rochette given what the 3 of them laid down that night. All 3 of them were seriously on and fully deserved their rankings! All 3 can jump circles around Sasha and her weak jumps.
  19. Spazactaz

    Spazactaz New Member

    3rd, possibly 4th.... but i can't really see her being put behind rochette, just cuz she's sasha cohen and i think they'd make her PCS higher and the goes on the SpSq and spins higher.
  20. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    You make it sound like she is some huge name at this point. In the U.S maybe she is but internationally she is a skater who had been retired for 4 years and in her prime couldnt even win a single major title. She is not some huge name as a World Championship-less skater coming back after a quadrennial retirement in a field that contained 3 recent World Champions (a title Sasha never won) and 2 recent World silver medalists (Sasha's highest ever medal).

    Even at her own Nationals where it was later revealed that NBC basically made the USFSA almost promise Cohen went to Vancouver barring something drastic, the U.S judges still placed her behind Nagasu without a triple-triple in the SP for that skate.

    As for PCS, the PCS the top 3 got in Vancouver were actually much higher than Sasha in her prime even got, and much higher than Sasha at her own Nationals even got.
  21. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

    But this was never confirmed, was it? As far as I can see it was simply speculation by some skatefans back during the selection process, when it seemed to be taking longer than usual. And it seemed to find some wheels of its own...

    And the judges simply could not have placed Cohen above Nagasu and not expected rumors of "skandal" to erupt. Just like with refs in soccer or basketball games, there is only so much you can do to fix a result...the athlete (or team) still at least has to perform convincingly. But saying that, I absolutely DON'T think this was a fixed event, as screwy as the judging may have been.

    EDIT:: Speculation: If they wanted to attempt to fix Nats to favor Cohen, they could have easily done this: give Nagasu and Cohen some buffer room in the short, giving both huge scores (keeping Nagasu as the overall leader to avoid mass suspicion) while marking Flatt down several points (the latter's what happened at the Olys, right?). This would allow Cohen a little more room for error in the FS since Flatt would almost certainly skate a clean (or strong) FS. Although this would STILL require Cohen to at least show competence in the long, deliver a respectably strong performance, in order to give the judges latitude to inflate her scores and thus put her into the top 2. Not that it would have done her any favors in the long run anyway.

    EDIT II: Damn, I can't believe I'm actually saying this junk. It REALLY is off-season isn't it :duh:
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2010
  22. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

    Unsubstantiated rumors of an almost promise that was never kept? Heavens, the corruption. :drama:
  23. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Outside the top 6.
  24. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

    This question arises from time to time. Is the senior Grand Prix Final a major title?

    Would it have been possible to give Sasha the title with just a few clean triples by inflating her PCS beyond logic and reason? I’m just not sure.
    Somebody please email Alissa and find out.
  25. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

    Not even SashaFans(tm) would have thought that was cool, Polymer Bob.

    Though SashaFans(tm) all think the GPF is a major title :p Honestly, I don't care if she never won Worlds or the Olympics, which are apparently the only titles worth winning according to posters here everytime this damned discussion breaks out. She has a record 99% of the skaters on the planet would kill for, she never landed off the podium after 2003 Worlds (well, until the pewter at 2010 Nats - I don't know if that counts) and she's earned a place in history whether people like to admit it or not. The very fact that she is still so famous as to garner the media attention she did at Nationals 4 years after stepping on the ice is testament enough to that. She had a special quality that somehow made her inability to actually secure either of those titles irrelevant to her overall fame and how many fans she had, and the fact that, without her, I probably would never have discovered how much I love this sport makes her very special to me personally.

    At the Olys her SP would have put her in the medal hunt and her LP would have seen her well off the podium. I can't guess precise numbers and I won't bother.
  26. piano18

    piano18 New Member

    Sasha wouldn't even have made top 3 after the short, how does she have a decent shot at bronze? :lol:
  27. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

    The big difference is Czisny at least managed to cleanly land and fully rotate 3 clean triples in her 2009 Nationals LP. Plus, unlike Sasha, her SP was clean (no -GOE on her jumps). Cohen, on the other hand, didn't manage a single clean triple in that mess of a LP at 2010 Nationals. Every triple jump landing had a 2-foot, a step-out, or a fall. Every single one of her jumping passes with the exception of her 2Axel garnered -GOE.
  28. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

    The delusions of Sashafans(TM) are highly amusing to say the least. :lol:
  29. Lanie

    Lanie Well-Known Member

    Because she was injured, undertrained and should never have showed up, but I think that if she didn't go to Nationals, she would have been eaten alive, so.

    I think 4th in the SP, top 10 or outside in the LP.
  30. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

    It's about striking distance in points, not placement. As long as you can make up the point difference, placement after the SP no longer matters nowadays.

    Of course, the above may be less relevant in Cohen's case, since she almost always drops in the standings from the SP to the LP