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Where would 29 year old Kwan have placed at 2010 Olympics skating cleanly

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by kwanlysacek, Apr 4, 2013.

Where would clean Kwan have placed at the 2010 Olympics

  1. gold

  2. silver

  3. bronze

  4. no medal

  1. kwanlysacek

    kwanlysacek Member

    Sorry I meant a poll with this last time but it didnt work. I am certain a clean Kwan would have won the 2010 Olympics, even at 29.
  2. bardtoob

    bardtoob Former Choreographer for Anna Maria Tragikova

    For me, the Kwan "what ifs" end at the 2006 Olympics. I wouldn't know how to vote.
  3. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Kwan did not compete at all from 2006-on, so this is really the most speculative "what if" poll out there. I'm a huge Kwan fan, but I'm no dummy. I doubt at age 29 if she would have been able to land a 3/3 or even a 2/3 needed to maximize her points with the allowed number of jumping passes, or could have somehow improved her spins to the point to be competitive with skaters much younger than her, and do a routine that would have impressed the judges. She's not Plushenko who landed quads in his prime. I will say that the 2010 COP would have been kinder to her than the 2006 one was.
  4. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    She said she was training a sp but what were the jumps in it? I haven't read what the jumps were. You can only assume 2a. If the others were 3lz 2t and 3t or loop doubt she wold have medaled.
  5. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

    You have to wonder if Kwan was even competitive for a medal in 2006. By only the luck of the competition in Torino, neither Slutskaya and Cohen skated their best in the free, and despite winning, Shizuka Arakawa didn't include either 3/3 she was planning.

    As much as I love her skating by then Kwan hadn't included a 3/3 since 2002, was no longer doing the 3 loop, and did more 5 triple than 6 triple programs (usually doubling the second lutz) after 2004.
  6. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    I always believed she would have been battling with Suguri for 4th place at the 2006 Olympics. Which is one reason as a Kwan fan I was relieved she didnt skate (although sad for her also) as I am not sure how much I would enjoyed seeing her in such a diminished position, even in what turned out to be a lackluster event.

    As for 2010 I doubt even she was ever seriously considering a comeback, and thank goodness after seeing the Vancouver Games she didnt even try. Her placing would probably have been something on par with where she might have finished at the Lillehammer Olympics (but a less happy one than Lillehammer where she would have been overjoyed just to be there rather than the disgraced Harding).
  7. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

    Troll alert. Check their other posts everyone.

    I agree that Gold in 2006 would have been unlikely for Kwan on most nights (it just so happened that everyone did badly at that Olympics) but people forget that she barely lost the Worlds bronze medal by half a point. Jenny Kirk went on tour with Michelle after those championships and said Michelle skated her competitive long program (Bolero) every night when most skaters were doing simple show programs and Jenny never saw her miss a single jump during the entire tour. That's a 6 triple program. Her consistency was unrivaled, it just seems that her body couldn't hold up any longer after that year.

    And of course we can always rely on Sasha to fall, and a 2006 Carolina wouldn't have necessarily been a threat to Kwan on most nights either. I think a bronze medal would've been realistic for Kwan in 2006.
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  8. bardtoob

    bardtoob Former Choreographer for Anna Maria Tragikova

    At the 2005 Spring Marshalls Competition after Worlds, Kwan performed Bolero with two landed 3Lz and two landed 3F, which she had never done before, which clearly indicating she was still looking for future point maximizing options.

    She continued to practice 3/3 to the end of 2004, which is why she starting doing the 3S in combo.
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  9. Katarzyna

    Katarzyna Well-Known Member

    May I say I'm :rofl::rofl::rofl: that some voted for Gold? Seriously, if we repeat this poll in 2022 asking if Michelle might have won gold that year when still competing, then I guess some dye heart fans will still vote for gold. :D
  10. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Even Michelle at her prime wouldn't have beaten Yuna - she was on fire
  11. smileyskate

    smileyskate Active Member

    Deleted. Duplicate post.
  12. smileyskate

    smileyskate Active Member

    Since this thread is about Michelle, today the cartoon show "Arthur" reran the 2001 episode about Michelle Kwan. In the middle there was feature showing 16 year old Jenny Kirk talking about how she got into skating and also praising Michelle. Boy, Jenny looked and sounded way younger than 16 in that piece. It was neat to see the skating though & I was going to post it on her podcast thread here but saw there was an open one about MK.
    TheIronLady and (deleted member) like this.
  13. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

    If it had been Yu Na and Kwan in 1998 with no Tara, Kwan still wouldn't have won gold. And if Tara had been there I'd have put my money on Yu Na. It blows my mind that 4 people actually think Kwan could have beat that.
  14. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

    If you had asked 2006, I would have said gold with her usual 6 to 7 triple program at her best, especially if she had her 3toe-3toe. But 2010? No medal, program components had changed too much for her usual program to be truly competitive.

    One sad irony of Kwan's Olympic career is that the 2 times she competed she got beaten by younger skaters who skated lights out technically. The year she had to withdraw she got beaten by Arakawa with 5 triples and no 3-3 in the same year that both Sasha and Irina also skated subpar (no offense meant to Shizuka here). It just wasn't in the cards for her to be an Olympic champion, but she had a far more memorable career than any of them in her era, save perhaps Yu Na, and even then, I'd call it a tie at best.
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  15. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Yu Na and Kwan are definitely not of the same era. Kim's first year of Senior competition was the year after Kwan's last year of Senior competition (which she didnt even compete once in anyway).
  16. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

    I still don't think Yu Na can compare to Kwan's legacy. Not yet. The Olympic gold counts for a lot but Yu Na has 2 world titles and the Olympic gold. Kwan has 5 World titles (plus 4 other medals) and even without the Olympic gold she still has 2 Olympic medals. That completely trumps what Yu Na has done so far. Yu Na has a great chance to make a huge move by winning another Olympic gold but I think Yu Na has a lot to make up because Kwan simply never stopped competing (and winning) whereas Yu Na has phoned it in at one Worlds and skipped another. It just doesn't feel as dominant when someone hasn't been a constant on the scene. I will have to re-evaluate after Sochi, of course. Maybe as a Kwan fan I have learned not to put so much importance on Olympic gold. :lol:
  17. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

    I am sure those people are not taking this poll seriously,

    ::goes and votes for kwan::

  18. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

    They make about as much sense as you transplanting Yuna back to 1998 when she was 7 years old under a totally different judging and skating system with different standards yet somehow with the same skillset and program layout as a 19 year old 2010 Yuna under IJS. :eek:
  19. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

    Yes, I was obviously talking about a 7-year-old Yu Na beating Kwan. You got me.
  20. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

    You missed the point entirely. Your wild speculation of how Yuna would've done in 1998 involves a skillset and program layout that she developed in a totally different era. It makes no sense. It's a sport, it's supposed to progress. It's like ZOMG Yuna would've beaten Sonia Henie at all 3 of her Olympics since she did a 3-3 and Sonia didn't zomg lolz!!!
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
  21. Prancer

    Prancer Strong and stable Staff Member

    Michelle didn't skate at the 2010 Olympics, so......what difference does it make where she might have placed?
  22. numbers123

    numbers123 Well-Known Member

    I don't think that Kwan would have been in medal contention. As much as some fans wanted her to have an OGM, I believe that she was much better served by not winning one. She had a long career, will be remembered as one of the greatest female skaters. If she had won the OGM in place of Tara, I imagine she would have retired. As it was, she continued to skate increased the popularity of skating in the US and we were witnessed to outstanding skating.

    I know that the die hard Kwan fans wanted her to have an OGM, but I would guess that there are many once every 4 years fans who think she did.
  23. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

    I can't tell you how many times I had to tell people Kwan didn't with the OGM and they just look at me like I'm an idiot :shuffle: I think the average person who doesn't follow the sport very often does think she won.
  24. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    As a side note to that I also think if that happened it would have been a really bad thing for U.S womens skating and their current famine would have come alot sooner. I agree Michelle probably (but not certain) would have retired had she won the 98 OGM. However most likely Tara also would have soon retired as well. Her hip was too butchered to realistically continue in amateur skating. Even if she continued she would have no longer been able to do the triple-triples and super difficult jump layouts that made her special, so would have likely dropped backwards quickly as well. In this situation and the Americans being stuck with only Nikidinov, and some 13 years olds to start the quad, the Russian fed. would have jumped on the opportunity and pushed hard for Slutskaya, Butyrskaya, and even Voltchkova. By the time Hughes emerged in 2001 and Cohen in 2002 the Russians probably would have already been heavily entrenched at the top politically. Could have quite possibly been a Russian sweep in SLC. Cohen in such a situation might have even gotten bored and quit sooner, further extending a possible U.S drought of sorts.
  25. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    Party pooper. ;)
  26. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

    I think she would have definitely beat Rochette if she was clean, if not Asada as well. I voted silver at first but I'm starting to think maybe she wouldn't have beat Asada.. not sure about that one. I know Asada's 3A was underrotated though, IIRC? I'm getting sleepy so I'm having trouble even typing this coherently lol.
  27. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

    Michelle could not have beat Yuna. Yuna has too many 3-3's, consistent jumps, and too much height on her jumps to lose to anyone. Michelle seemed to flounder under COP as well, during her last few international competitions. I don't think Michelle could have beat even Joannie. She probably would have been 4th-6th in 2010.
  28. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

    Kwan would win gold in 3022 and 4022. She doesn't even have to be alive to win gold!
  29. falling_dance

    falling_dance Coaching Patrick

    She's won gold in previous lives.
  30. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

    Michelle would never have won gold, she'd have lost to the 97 year old Sonja Henie, skating clean.
    PeterG, LilJen, briancoogaert and 3 others like this.