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What does Takahashi need to do?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by johndockley92, Apr 3, 2012.

  1. maureenfarone

    maureenfarone Well-Known Member

    It is clear to me that what Dai needs is legs that have never been injured :shuffle:.

    Love Dai but don't really think he can put a 4/3 in SP or even the FS. No matter what he does he will always have to overcome the serious injury/surgery/season out.

    Patrick is amazing and I enjoy watching him but I simply don't feel the emotion from him like I do from Dai. This doesn't mean that others don't feel the passion in Patrick's performance, just that I don't.
  2. sadya

    sadya Active Member

    I think if Chan becomes better in the emotion department he will be unbeatable, even by Takahashi or Hanyu. This year I would have liked to see Takahashi win, but Chan is improving each year and if in 2013 he comes across as more genuine as far as what he tries to portray on the ice, I don't think anyone will be able to beat him.

    At this moment I mostly enjoy watching Takahashi more, be it competition or exhibition. It's amazing how he recovered from surgeries and injuries and whatnot, perhaps that's why there is so much joy and emotion shining through him when he skates, just realising how lucky he is to be back in form on the ice.

    I'm alreadly looking forward to next season's competitions.
  3. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

    Skate better and jump higher than Chan, pure and simple.
  4. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

    Very well said. And I would add that judges value skating skills more than artistry/performance. No one is going to beat Chan or Kostner with comparable technical content. Both Chan and Kostner also have excellent in-betweens to show off their superior skating skills. A skater is going to have to signficantly exceed them technically to beat them. With Kostner , that's quite doable, but Chan controls his own destiny.
  5. bek

    bek Guest

    I think its hard to know who will or won't be untouchable. Hanyu is reportedly talking about adding a quad sal to both programs, if he does that very well could be a game changer. He'll be 19 in Sochi probably at the peak of his jumping abilities.
  6. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller #1 Dick Button Fan

    Skating-wise, he just needs to skate as beautifully as he does now. Politiks-wise, he needs to take some advise from Piseev on how those sekret Alfa Bank wire transfers to the ISU tech panels work (although Piseev's own transfers didn't work as planned after 2012 Euros).
  7. wonderlen

    wonderlen New Member

    YES. YES. MAYBE. MAYBE. HELL NO. ARE U KIDDING?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    If anything, Takahashi should be rewarded for taking risk and showing complex program and choreography. Name how many skaters has diverse programs throughout their skating career as much as Dai??? same old same old stuffs for other skater(s). What next for PChan? Carmen?? :scream:
  8. wonderlen

    wonderlen New Member

    Maybe Dai should sent a boat load of sushi to the Chan's minions for life. After all, Japan doesn't produce maple syrup to sugar load the judges!! LOL

    The thing is figure skating is still old school and judges still want to see same old same old programs done to death by skaters. If skater try to push the boundary, they are no properly rewarded as they should. Only real weakness Dai has is not having consistent quad. But given his past injury and his age, you got give him a break.
  9. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

    He's not far off. If he has 1-2 consistent quads in short and long that's most of it. He does two 3As so that helps.

    Blues for Klook is a great piece of music and I don't think judges hate it. My problem with that music is that it is so dense in terms of content and phrasing it's hard to interpret it perfectly without exhausting yourself in the program. As a result, I feel that Dai didn't use half the notes and phrases and skated through a lot of it without acknowledging many of the musical nuances...or not interpreting them well enough. To me that's why IN is a bit back. He was emotionally invested but didn't interpret all that the music brought to the table.

    Rodrigo on the other hand, while being slightly overused now is very even paced and allowed Lori and Patrick to use pretty much every note and phrase, thus the higher marks IMHO.

    No one can rightfully touch Patrick right now in SS but Dai can get close. He has to make it up in other areas.
  10. NMURA

    NMURA Active Member

    Takahashi needs to be the clear Japan's #1 and the legitimate rival of Patrick Chan in the judges' eyes. That never happens as long as Hanyu is there. Takahashi's best effort can't beat Hanyu with a fall. Probably Hanyu is the only man who can beat Chan with two errors now. The margin of error will be reduced to one in next season. He is 9 years youger than Takahashi. The age difference is almost same with Arakawa and Asada. I think Takahashi should retire IF he cares about winning. A world silver is good enough for a glorious closing. Jeffrey Buttle had made a wise choice.
  11. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

    So in other words Dai was punished for using more challenging music and he should stick to grossly overused warhorses like Aranjuez? That sucks. :(
  12. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady Sew Happy

    No, he's being punished for stripping out much of the choreography which we saw in Mississauga, wherein he seemed to become the music. The version of his program we saw at Worlds was a pale shadow the program he debuted in Mississauga.
  13. snoopysnake

    snoopysnake Well-Known Member

    Dai needs only to skate to music he feels and to the best of his ability. If he skates clean and still does not get the color medal that he deserves, it is not because he is doing anything wrong. The performances he skates are his legacy and those are what illustrate his greatness. Daisuke's Blues for Klook is a masterpiece.
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  14. Dilng

    Dilng Well-Known Member

    Yes me too!!!
  15. Louis

    Louis Well-Known Member

    I think this is a very important point. A lot of the difference between Chan and Takahashi is coming from within GOE.
  16. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    He needs to skate for Canada and change his name to Patrick Chan. Otherwise he has no chance. Not because he woudn't have the skills, but because the judges are only humans and have their favourites. And that's sad!
  17. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    How is that even possible? Do you want the ISU to add a level 5 for step sequences? :rolleyes:

    You're extreme even for an uber, so I won't dignify the rest of it with a response. Past a certain point any attempt at a discussion becomes ridiculous.
  18. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

    While I applaud his music choices, is there a way to tone down how frenetic he looks during programs? He always appears to be firing on all cylinders all the time which can leave elements looking unfinished and sloppy.
  19. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

    As I mentioned in the Worlds FS thread, Hanyu picked up more GOE points than Takahashi in the long program (13 to 8). Unfortunately, his 3 loop usually gets 0 to negative GOE (as it did in Nice), and the judges have been calling his 3 flip a lip on occasion as well.

    I would like to think that if he cleans up some of his elements (better, longer landing edges as well), he will get higher component scores (one can only hope).

    Interestingly Blues for Klook has been used in programs for close to 20 years, so while not overused, it's still been used in skating (and gymnastics) programs to an extent.
  20. kittyjake5

    kittyjake5 Well-Known Member

    I have to agree with your assessment. Dai put his heart and soul into his programs this season, I saw brilliance from him this season, and still Patrick came out ahead, it may always be like that. I am still scratcng my head about the sloppy comments.
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  21. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

    Asada also has that problem.

    In contrast, Suzuki holds her landings beautifully this season.
  22. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

    thanks for that. I've always hated her landings. Worst moment she has.

    Back to the topic at hand...
  23. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady Sew Happy

    He may have earlier in the season, but I was disappointed with the Worlds version of the LP. I thought the version I saw in Mississauga was one of the his best programs ever, second only to his 2010 Olympic programs (my all-time favourites).

    He performed it brilliantly but it was not the program I fell in love with.
  24. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

    I'll meet you in the vomitorium.
  25. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

    I guess the question is whether Takahashi's goal is to outpoint Chan (and Hanyu) at all costs, or go down trying, or to skate the best possible programs that he is capable of skating and to take whatever medals that might earn him.

    With the first approach, I think losing big is more likely than winning big, which is why I'd rather see the latter.
  26. carriemarie

    carriemarie Active Member

    I feel it comes down to jumps. Period.

    Chans jumps tend to carry over the ice farther while Takahashi's jumps have an "straight up and down" technique.
    Chan has a bit more speed into, but more importantly OUT OF his jumps: better running edge.

    Also think that Chan has shown a fairly consistent quad for 2 years now and Takahashi seems to be still working his consistency back. That plays in the judges minds...

    I am not a Chan fan btw- I do hope and believe that Takahashi will defeat him soon...
  27. carriemarie

    carriemarie Active Member

    LOL- Love it! :rofl:
  28. kittyjake5

    kittyjake5 Well-Known Member

    Is there room for one more. ;)
  29. A judge

    A judge Member

    Takahashi is 26 years old. His jumps are not going to get any better.
  30. Doubletoe

    Doubletoe Well-Known Member

    Chan has such amazing glide over the ice that it's like catnip to judges. That's extremely hard to compete with, and it's also hard to acquire. With that in mind, I think the only way Takahashi can successfully compete with Chan is to continue to play to his own strengths (charisma, characterization and exciting choreography) while skating clean programs that include a clean quad in the short and a clean quad and quad-triple in the long. Only a clean Takahashi with the same technical content as Chan can beat Chan, who typically makes a mistake or two. The fact that Takahashi is finally landing quads again this year is very encouraging.
    I also agree that Takahashi needs to work on holding his jump landings in his programs, especially in the second half when he's a little tired. It won't be easy, but it will be a lot easier than acquiring Patrick's incredible glide.