Volosozhar/Trankov - Cheer Thread!

[Amantide]

Really?? I think V/T's lifts are wonderful. But of course I like T/M's and the Chinese pairs' lifts, too.

Yeah. It's not about the execution or the level. Some of the positions bothers me and I'm not that found of.

 

[hanca]

What Mozer says sounds reasonable to me. I understand why Max (and Tanya) would have difficulty handling the changing environment, but I am sure that given enough time everyone will adjust. I hope they don't do something stupid like leaving Mozer who coached them to an OGM

While I agree that she got them to two Olympic gold medals, if the training environment became unsuitable, maybe it is time to change. At the time V/T came to her, she didn't have any seniors pairs. Now she is managing at least 5-6 senior and a few junior pairs. If they don't feel that she gives them enough attention, there would be no point staying just because they are grateful for the past medals.

 

[Vash01]

While I agree that she got them to two Olympic gold medals, if the training environment became unsuitable, maybe it is time to change. At the time V/T came to her, she didn't have any seniors pairs. Now she is managing at least 5-6 senior and a few junior pairs. If they don't feel that she gives them enough attention, there would be no point staying just because they are grateful for the past medals.

I didn't mean that they should stay with Mozer out of gratitude, but she seems to know what it takes. I don't know of many good pairs coaches in Russia, other than Vasiliev and Moskvina, and Tamara is around only because of K&S.

Who can they go to, should they decide to leave Mozer's group?

 

[clairecloutier]

Back to Vasiliev?? (LOL, I know it won't happen.)

Really, there's not many other coaches in Russia who would be at an appropriate level. Especially now that they're Olympic champions.

 

[hanca]

I didn't mean that they should stay with Mozer out of gratitude, but she seems to know what it takes. I don't know of many good pairs coaches in Russia, other than Vasiliev and Moskvina, and Tamara is around only because of K&S.

Who can they go to, should they decide to leave Mozer's group?

I don't have any suggestion for another coach, but what they did before was pick up unknown coach who gave them a lot of freedom of choices. So maybe the solution would be again to pick up another unknown coach.

 

[Michelle]

I don't think it would be wise for V/T to switch coaches. They have one of the best coaching teams in the world, certainly in all of Russia. Maybe they aren't getting the same attention as before but I can imagine they aren't being completely neglected. Besides they train with some of the best teams in the world and I think they need that extra motivation when preparing for the new season.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised. V/T have the height for the quad twist--they should try it, I think. At least, they could start training it in practice (maybe they are). If S/H, P/Z, and S/K can do it, V/T certainly should be able to. I feel like V/T are perhaps relying overmuch on the large PCS margin they got during the 2013-14 season. I'm not sure that's still going to be there to the same extent next season. It may be, but it may not be. We won't know until the first events. Although of course, reputation always helps . . .

They were doing 4Tw before his surgery. But even with their 3Tw4 (which they're probably going to get close to +3 GOE), that's still competitive with Sui/Han and D/R. For Tat and Max, it's going to come down to not only PCS but the GOEs. If they're not getting their typical huge components...well, they're screwed. Haha.

And I was under the impression that they pretty much were responsible for their own training and "coaching" anyway, and Mozer and Stan just kind of guided them.

 

[Cherub721]

I'm kind of getting worried about them now. While I believe the 2018 Olympics can be won without quads, I feel like by not adding anything new, they are making it difficult on themselves... they will have to be perfect every time out, which is tough considering the injury and time off. If they don't have new elements (throw flip/lutz is not that big of a deal anymore) or some spectacular choreography, and they make a small mistake, I feel like they won't get that great of PCS and GOE... it'll be like "out with the old, in with the new" because so many pairs are doing new things. Will great quality alone still be enough?

I also wonder if their hearts are truly in it... sometimes I get the sense that they want to be professional show skaters, who occasionally do a championship and win it but don't focus solely on training for competitions. Maybe that is why Maxim is letting these things bother him, because he doesn't really want to be training anyway.

On whether to change coaches it's interesting... I read that Moskvina actually is trying to build up her school again and boy, would it be amazing for her to work with them, as they already have all their elements perfected. They could also work with Dmitriev, that would be fantastic, and he knows about the motivation necessary to win a second OGM too. (Of course it is unlikely that someone would leave those great conditions in Moscow for St. Petersburg ). Or they could go with someone new, like they did with Mozer. Isn't a new school being opened in Sochi - are there pairs there? I just don't think for a pair like them, finding a good coach will ever be an issue... and if there aren't enough good ones in Russia, well, then I can't imagine a country that does have a good coaching situation for pairs.

It just must be odd, knowing that S&K are working on 3-3s and two quads, with a goal of beating everyone, that V&T can just train alongside them assuming what they are doing is still going to be enough. They've been so friendly/supportive, and they supported T&M too, but eventually it's going to get vicious, isn't it? I can actually see T&M beating V&T at TEB if V&T have a bad day and T&M are perfect.

On the other hand maybe it's better to stay... all three pairs are potential World champions, and V&T want to continue being the top pair in the World and win everything til the next Olympics, so they shouldn't be afraid to train with very strong teams. It worked for some of Moskvina's pairs.

 

[Vash01]

I also wonder if their hearts are truly in it... sometimes I get the sense that they want to be professional show skaters, who occasionally do a championship and win it but don't focus solely on training for competitions. Maybe that is why Maxim is letting these things bother him, because he doesn't really want to be training anyway.

On whether to change coaches it's interesting... I read that Moskvina actually is trying to build up her school again and boy, would it be amazing for her to work with them, as they already have all their elements perfected. They could also work with Dmitriev, that would be fantastic, and he knows about the motivation necessary to win a second OGM too. (Of course it is unlikely that someone would leave those great conditions in Moscow for St. Petersburg ).

Interesting thoughts, particularly about Max's heart not really being in it. It must be really hard after winning an OGM to motivate oneself. May be Tanya can persuade him, or may be they just need to get into a competitive frame of mind. When they see how well the other pairs are skating, they/Max may feel more motivated. Right now they are just practicing at the rink. That can get boring.

Tamara is a great motivator, and if she is willing to take them and if they are willing to move to St.Pete, it could rejuvenate the FS program overall there. However, even Artur didn't stay there, so that's a concern. Moskvina can certainly make their programs more interesting.

 

[zebraswan]

I really don't believe they would consider leaving Nina. It sounds like Max was just surprised at the way things had changed in their absence & it will understandably take some time to adjust. As I understand it, Robin Szolkowy will be going back to Russia sometimes to assist (not sure of the exact terms of their agreement), so that would give Nina a little more time to focus on V/T.

 

[borzaya]

Not doing a quad twist is a mistake. S&H will win Worlds in that case

As I've said it's not clear from the article, if they're not going to do quad twist at all, or only in this season. Though I think they are quite able of mastering a quad twist, personally I wasn't expecting them to do it this season - because of injury, surgery and all... It wouldn't be wise to rush and risk in such circumstances, even if it will affect their chances to win... PS: I didn't mention it, because I was translating that extract from the article in a brief - but there Stas Morozov says (when speaking about them not doing the quad twist) that they can't be sure yet, how Max's shoulder would react to such load. I'd say it's wise of them to be careful for now.

 

[borzaya]

I really don't believe they would consider leaving Nina. It sounds like Max was just surprised at the way things had changed in their absence & it will understandably take some time to adjust.

I also don't think that it will come to this. Well, we all know how emotional Max can be - he could hardly be expected to treat these changes silently... I agree, they just need some time to adjust.

 

[Amantide]

I think we should take Max "complains" with a pinch of salt. He can be a baby sometimes and whine about nothing. OGM Max asking for more chocolates.
I don't think Mozer would've said that to the press if she thought it was something serious and real.

 

[dramatheater]

^ yep
By the way I think he was surprised & then just jokingly complaining


As for the change I dont know. Imo now the main thing is their health & if they have this & Max is alright nothing is impossible for them. They may change their minds & do some bigger tricks in the future.

& dont rub salt into my wounds talking about my queen Tamara retirement. She can work wonders for so many pairs. I can only dream about how V/T could shine with her.

 

[figureit]

I made a new video for Pairs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hRgs1nwGPA&feature=youtu.be
In terms of quality of the elements these two are really amazing. Jumps, Twist and Throws are SUPERB!

I also corrected a bit the video I made a while ago for Russian Pairs. There was a tiny mistake during the editing , and I couldn't stand it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhKK4SDG_sM&feature=youtu.be

S/K of the USA quad twist?

 

[Amantide]

S/K of the USA quad twist?

I thought about them but they have the twist only. There are other pairs which I like and I didn't inlcude. So, in the end, I just took those who I think are the best at the moment, and I could use different elements from them.

& dont rub salt into my wounds talking about my queen Tamara retirement. She can work wonders for so many pairs. I can only dream about how V/T could shine with her.

I love Tamara. She's god in Pairs and a team like V&T with her would be fantastic. I doubt Max and her are compatible though. The working relationship between the two didn't work once. Although it was time ago so who knows now.

 

[Cherub721]

I completely forgot that he worked with Moskvina once before. I think the circumstances were quite different. He and Maria did not get along, and even he said that Tamara shouldn't have had to deal with it. That's obviously not an issue with Tatiana.

When it comes to Oleg Vassiliev, I can't see them working together ever again, but he only spent a short time with Moskvina and Dmitriev, and I can see that being possible (not that I think it would happen).

 

[Amantide]

I completely forgot that he worked with Moskvina once before. I think the circumstances were quite different. He and Maria did not get along, and even he said that Tamara shouldn't have had to deal with it. That's obviously not an issue with Tatiana.

I don't remember his exact words now, but I don't think it was all about Max&Maria relationship. Maria mentioned something in her interview also. I think Max's character isn't easy to deal with. He was much younger then, granted.

 

[figureit]

I thought about them but they have the twist only. There are other pairs which I like and I didn't inlcude. So, in the end, I just took those who I think are the best at the moment, and I could use different elements from them.



I love Tamara. She's god in Pairs and a team like V&T with her would be fantastic. I doubt Max and her are compatible though. The working relationship between the two didn't work once. Although it was time ago so who knows now.

S/K USA don't have twist only??? for sure the throws are huge huge, their spins are great, and the lifts are first rate and very very solid. I think it was an error to leave out an American team who is doing things only two other teams in the World were doing at the time and a team that is finally bringing the USA into the decade with elements. The fact they are finally making strides with their choreography, line, and now the reason WTT had the Gold are just bonuses. They worked with Tamara recently where Chris lifted her. No other pair guy did that RECENTLY with the pairs she has worked with as her students? I am guessing she knows he is very solid on lifts! I think it was a huge error but happy that Tamara seemed to really respect and love this team herself. I trust her. It says a lot of S/K. BUt the smart remarks about her pair partner yes he did lift her. I am referring to her students and also referring to her recent work with USA pairs specifically!! IN case there is a question of that.

 

[Deleted member 40371]

S/K USA don't have twist only??? for sure the throws are huge huge, their spins are great, and the lifts are first rate and very very solid. I think it was an error to leave out an American team who is doing things only two other teams in the World were doing at the time and a team that is finally bringing the USA into the decade with elements. The fact they are finally making strides with their choreography, line, and now the reason WTT had the Gold are just bonuses. They worked with Tamara recently where Chris lifted her. No other pair guy did that? I am guessing she knows he is very solid on lifts! I think it was a huge error but happy that Tamara seemed to really respect and love this team herself. I trust her.

I am Mishin surely lifted Moskovina since he was her skating pairs' partner.

 

[figureit]

I am Mishin surely lifted Moskovina since he was her skating pairs' partner.

To clarify: They worked with Tamara recently where Chris lifted her. No other pair guy did that RECENTLY with the pairs she has worked with as her students? I am guessing she knows he is very solid on lifts! I think it was a huge error but happy that Tamara seemed to really respect and love this team herself. I trust her. It says a lot of S/K. BUt the smart remarks about her pair partner yes he did lift her. I am referring to her students and also referring to her recent work with USA pairs specifically!! IN case there is a question of that. Point being not only does this team have a lot to offer the US but obviously other Countries know of their talents too and so does Tamara which is saying a lot. Kind of amazing for a US Pair team and not a situation I saw coming at all but really excited for US pairs not just them as I think there is a lot of talent but with them I don't hold my breath on lifts and pair elements.

 

[clairecloutier]

S/K USA don't have twist only??? for sure the throws are huge huge, their spins are great, and the lifts are first rate and very very solid. I think it was an error to leave out an American team who is doing things only two other teams in the World were doing at the time and a team that is finally bringing the USA into the decade with elements. The fact they are finally making strides with their choreography, line, and now the reason WTT had the Gold are just bonuses. They worked with Tamara recently where Chris lifted her. No other pair guy did that RECENTLY with the pairs she has worked with as her students? I am guessing she knows he is very solid on lifts! I think it was a huge error but happy that Tamara seemed to really respect and love this team herself. I trust her. It says a lot of S/K. BUt the smart remarks about her pair partner yes he did lift her. I am referring to her students and also referring to her recent work with USA pairs specifically!! IN case there is a question of that.

I'm a Scimeca/Knierim fan too, and I wouldnt've minded seeing them in the video. But, it's Amantide's video, so she gets to choose who goes in it. I'm just glad she made it.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Oh be still my heart. If they went to Moskvina I would be in heaven. . I can't even imagine sure how elegance.

 

[Cherub721]

Did she actually say anything about their skating or are these all assumptions based on that photo? I really wouldn't read that much into it.

 

[AnaBM]

I've been far from fsu for so long that I completely lost the track of the conversation What's going on with Moskvina and S/K?

 

[Amantide]

S/K USA don't have twist only??? for sure the throws are huge huge, their spins are great, and the lifts are first rate and very very solid. I think it was an error to leave out an American team who is doing things only two other teams in the World were doing at the time and a team that is finally bringing the USA into the decade with elements. The fact they are finally making strides with their choreography, line, and now the reason WTT had the Gold are just bonuses. They worked with Tamara recently where Chris lifted her. No other pair guy did that RECENTLY with the pairs she has worked with as her students? I am guessing she knows he is very solid on lifts! I think it was a huge error but happy that Tamara seemed to really respect and love this team herself. I trust her. It says a lot of S/K. BUt the smart remarks about her pair partner yes he did lift her. I am referring to her students and also referring to her recent work with USA pairs specifically!! IN case there is a question of that.

I think you're taking a fan video too seriously. This was done to show the best pairs in the worlds, according to me. I put two young Pairs like T&M and the chinese Yu&Jin because I think they're the best from the youngest Pairs, even better than S&K (USA), yes. They may become the best in the future but for now they are not in the same league as the ones I chose, IMO. I have nothing against them, believe me. Just my opinion of their skating.

Anyway, since I have fun doing videos I'll do one with other pairs I left out, like S&K, M&O etc.

 

[Amantide]

Did she actually say anything about their skating or are these all assumptions based on that photo? I really wouldn't read that much into it.

Basically is like saying since Mishin as well "worked" with Mirai for a week, it means that she is doing the 3Axel and will become Liza 2.0.

 

[figureit]

I think you're taking a fan video too seriously. This was done to show the best pairs in the worlds, according to me. I put two young Pairs like T&M and the chinese Yu&Jin because I think they're the best from the youngest Pairs, even better than S&K (USA), yes. They may become the best in the future but for now they are not in the same league as the ones I chose, IMO. I have nothing against them, believe me. Just my opinion of their skating.

Anyway, since I have fun doing videos I'll do one with other pairs I left out, like S&K, M&O etc.

That's true. I do tend to be too serious!!!! THanks you!!!

 

[figureit]

I'm a Scimeca/Knierim fan too, and I wouldnt've minded seeing them in the video. But, it's Amantide's video, so she gets to choose who goes in it. I'm just glad she made it.

TRUE!! I get that. I just thought that they made an incredible statement and given the USA's struggle in pairs man they came through not just their own stuff and record breaking but also breaking some things and paving the way for the rest of our USA pairs! It's about time...even if they don't do nothing from here I think USA pairs because of them may make a statement in the next few years but I am way too serious and it was her video!!! #TRUTH!

 

[Sylvia]

I've been far from fsu for so long that I completely lost the track of the conversation What's going on with Moskvina and S/K?

USFS invited Tamara Moskvina to their national pairs camp in Indiana last month and Moskvina also went to Colorado Springs to work with Scimeca/Knierim (and other pairs there such as Aaron/Settlage, I assume) - info and 2 Moskvina photo links are posted in the 2015-16 U.S. Pairs thread in Great Skate Debate.

BTW, there is a general discussion thread for pairs (ALL countries) where I re-posted @Amantide's videos: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/index.php?threads/for-fans-of-pair-skating.95597/#post-4543929

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