1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. We have updated the board style and hope you like it. If you don't, you can switch back by going to https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/index.php?misc/style Select V Bulletin 3.0 style.

Virtue and Moir #30 - Labour of Love

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by MissJD, Sep 13, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MissJD

    MissJD Active Member

    Thanks so much for the photo sets! I looove photos of their programs. I never cease to be impressed by their perfect lines, extension, and expressions. If anyone else wants to share their favorite photos, yes please! ;)

    And I agree 100% with your last statement!
  2. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    Welcome. :)

    Ugh, that late? I really want to see a proper recording of "Stay" but I guess by then they will have performed it in the GP exhibitions. So since there's no gala at Finlandia, it won't be til at least Skate Canada. Thank you to everyone who answered my questions.
  3. ceg15

    ceg15 Member

    Just got my tickets for Skate Canada next month!! I am over the moon!! WAY too excited to see Tessa and Scott :)
  4. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan Well-Known Member

    I want to echo something girlscouse62 said beautifully in an earlier post about how wonderful it is that so many of you share your knowledge with us. I keep returning to those insightful blog entries from CatherineC and Lety, and I also enjoyed Lori's post about the SD music (and thank you again, iggie, for providing us with such a valuable resource--like volunteer said, there is no other skating blog quite like it), and there are so many interesting discussions in this thread.

    Welcome, Noey, and thanks for the info! I am so grateful that Radio Canada airs the full version. can't wait!

    Wow, lucky you! I am so excited for you! I am sure you will have an awesome time! please report back if you get the chance!

    And thanks for the links, Sahararainfall. It is great to see you posting again:)
  5. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan Well-Known Member

    Excellent post, walei!
    Also, I have missed you around here so it is great to see you back!

    glad you enjoyed it:)
    and I feel the same way, *Ice Princess*.
    In case anyone was curious, the piece Susanne and Petri dance to in that program is the ragtime theme from Borsalino, a movie made during the ragtime revival in the 70s.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
  6. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan Well-Known Member

    I find that some people collapse the foxtrot and the waltz because they are both slow dances but if the dances are performed correctly they should be distinguishable from one another. For one, the foxtrot is different from a waltz not only in that it involves four quarter notes per measure instead of three but also in that waltz has an accent on the first count and foxtrot usually has it on the first and third, although there is a lot of variation with the foxtrot. More importantly, the entire flavour of the movement is distinct from that of a waltz. The rise and fall is slightly different than that found in a waltz due to the nature of the steps of the foxtrot--I find it is spread out over more steps or ‘walks’ making it appear less pronounced than in a waltz (for example, in the most basic form of foxtrot you’ll rise at the end of the first and third counts, though in some series of steps you may keep rise in consecutive steps) and also, the rise sometimes occurs in the feet (lifting the heel off the ground) and sometimes only in the trunk and knees/legs. There is also a more relaxed alignment of the body in the foxtrot (the classic closed hold is slightly offset and there is more freedom to break from this hold and instead assume a form where, for example, the shoulder lines up with the opposite hip producing some of the slinkiness that is so characteristic of this dance) and the tension is carried and adjusted by the body very differently than it is in a waltz. Movement in the torso is key here, with the hip rotating slightly and coming forward.

    I adore the quickstep and think it has a really interesting history, with origins in at least three continents (Africa, North America, and Europe). In one sense, it is a sped-up version of the foxtrot but it is so much more than that with various influences, one of the most prominent being Charleston and ragtime jazz. This Charleston carried with it West African dance patterns that were kept alive in the black diaspora in the U.S. as well as other popular dance styles in Charleston, South Carolina. The Harlem Renaissance also shaped the quickstep not only through ragtime music but also in the distinctive character that exaggerated kicks and knee action gave to the Charleston there along with regional social dances like the Shimmy that came to be incorporated into the quickstep. It a is also interesting to note that the syncopations common in quickstep were employed in traditional West African styles and carried on in the Afro-Caribbean diaspora. Then when the dance traveled to England, the posture became more rigid and the kicking became more controlled with some of the jelly-like knee movements eliminated, but the relaxed Charleston vibe remained intact.

    With V&M’s performance something I noticed right off the bat was the compression of the knees and ankles and the seamless weight transfer that is so characteristic of foxtrot. They also alternate between long strokes and short quick steps to convey the foxtrot rhythm. Their superb edging allows them to achieve the glide and smoothness required for this dance, and they take on a variety of steps in multiple directions. Their superior blade control is on full display here. When they transition into quickstep you see them instantly change form to take on a more erect posture and go right into the promenade runs. You can see their weight is placed nicely over the balls of the feet for the hop steps in the stationary bits, for example, and in their progressive movements they are balanced such that they can carry the movement forward. Note the ease with which they transition into and out of promenade position (closed hold, both facing forward). There is no grasping or tugging to get into or change hold, they skate nice and close together, and they manage the space between them very well, with Scott rotating his hip to accommodate Tessa’s movement. And they vary not only their speed but the tension in their bodies throughout the dance to accent certain parts of the music and create variety in the movement. There is so much light and shade to this program, even in its very early stages.

    Some highlights from the foxtrot to illustrate what I was discussing above with regards to the nature of the foxtrot movement:

    -the clockwise swaying turns at 0:52 are created through a series of pivots that perfectly fit the timing and tension of the music, and this is achieved through leaning on one side of the other and then rapidly shifting the weight to the other while maintaining a certain amount of tension in the body


    -the skid into the grapevine at 0:59, which gains its lightness (and rise) from keeping the weight over the balls of the feet...Tessa produces the fall by setting down the heel and getting onto her edge


    -shifting of weight backward with heel leads at 1:04


    -gentler set of pivots than the first (they purposely carry less tension throughout the body here), this time counter-clockwise, with softer hold to correspond to the tone of this particular section of music (1:07)


    -in the sequence following this, at about 1:11 Tessa produces slow counts through a smooth glide that has her changing from a right back inside edge to a right back outside edge—watch her upper body movement as she does this


    -At around 3:32 Tessa steps back lightly with her left foot and instead of placing it stepping directly behind her (such that the new step would be in line with the foot’s previous location) she moves it slightly right to place it directly behind her right foot


    Then a similar movement a few seconds later at 3:36 that she subtly adjusts this movement to make it into more of a swivel


    I concur, the music selections are perfect. You can hear the ragtime influences in Muskrat Ramble, so perfect for the quickstep, and the scatting and idiosyncrasies of the foxtrot pieces give them lots to play with (and as people have noted, they are the masters of nuance).

    Sorry for such a long post!
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
  7. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

    Never be sorry for your "long" posts. I found it fascinating and will refer back to it again :). You're so knowledgable.
  8. *Ice Princess*

    *Ice Princess* Active Member

    Thank you so much Sahararainfall!!! Love your photoset!!! I share Carmen's set in my fan thread about T/S on italian forum ;) My virtual friends really appreciate your work!! ;)
    I LOVE too much Carmen! So powerful and their interpretation is just AMAZING!!

    Yes, I agree.... :)

    Me too... I "saw" the same thing... also to 4CC they were really passional B-)
    Oh, well... Scott's ROOOAAAR was TOO for my heart :D :D :D

    Cherub, I really hope that they skate "Stay" in this season... I want to see it many many times :D *rolleyes*

    Yeaaaaah!!!! I'm excited for you!!! Watch and support them also by all of us!!! B-)
  9. m_chenning

    m_chenning Active Member

    Bournekraatzfan, thank you for your post! Amazing! We have pleasure to watch such wonderful pure dancers, this what the ice-dancing is! Tessa-Scott are beautiful dancers with such talent and work-ethic. Re-watching SD makes it clear who are the real dancers and work in dance class properly and use their coaching time wiser ;) . Thy are epitome of elegance and dance. :swoon:
  10. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    I could very well copy your entire post and :respec: but I found this particularly interesting... V&M have really done a great job choosing their music and more importantly, skating to it.

    I'm really impressed how you can recognize ballroom steps and see how they integrated them into the dance and explain it so clearly, whereas I tend to go more on feeling that looks jazzy, that's a great quickstep, etc without putting into words.

    Maybe you should post some of that in that youtube link. The comments there are so ignorant. Perhaps iggie can put it on her blog? :)
  11. Manaud

    Manaud New Member

    I agree with you. you could feel it in the building!
  12. zilam98

    zilam98 Well-Known Member


    I WOULD LOVE FOR IGGIE TO INCLUDE THIS IN HER BLOG! ;) that way, we have a reference for the SD down the season, as both top teams will eventually modify their SDs until sochi. and it seems that after 2010 OG, the sd has more become the key to winning a championship. if a team can't win over the judges with the sd, they will lose even with a stronger fd.
  13. zilam98

    zilam98 Well-Known Member

    and BKfan, thank you for expressing materially what i thought were the keypoints to expressing a foxtrot rhythm vs a waltz rhythm
  14. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

    Maybe BK can also breakdown this old program (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvDMZDWEG-0) where V/M also show the difference between foxtrot and quickstep rhythms well.

    Also known as the post where I shamelessly link to one of my fav programs yet again.
  15. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    Such a damn good program. If they skated that foxtrot today I bet it would still be the best in the Olympic field! :lol:
  16. volunteer

    volunteer Member

    Now that's ice dancing. Can't help but smile while watching.
  17. volunteer

    volunteer Member

    BKfan, you're my idol - please don't worry about the length of your posts, just keep 'em coming. This is exactly what is needed to educate fans as to why VM are so superior to any of their rivals. No one can execute a program the way they do.
  18. zilam98

    zilam98 Well-Known Member

    would love to see a blues exhibition from v/m for this season. been wanting a blues sd but not happening this season, so a blues ex perhaps? ;)
  19. iggie

    iggie Well-Known Member

    sure. i'll work on that this weekend.
  20. iggie

    iggie Well-Known Member

    i remember seeing t/s as juniors -- the year before their final year as juniors -- skating their free dance, and that was my reaction completely: oh neat, they're really dancing out there. i can see why this is called ice dance.
  21. Lety

    Lety Member

    Thank you for your post, Bournekraatzfan, It was really wonderful to read and I learned many things. You have an incredible knowledge, and seeing it in the Iggie's blog will be fantastic! :biggrinbo

    It's really wonderful to be in a group where there is an interaction so amazing! Besides sharing our love for Tessa and Scott we also have the opportunity to learn and share new things. I have to say that I learned many new things here and know I have much more to discover with the help of all of you.

    Thank you for all links, all images and explanations, you all are amazing! :)
  22. parapluies

    parapluies Well-Known Member

    Now THIS is how you do a classical ballroom quickstep. Love that lift too. One of my favorite V/M lifts because its perfectly timed with the music even if they were struggling with it.
  23. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

    YAY BKFAN :cheer::cheer::cheer2::cheer2:

    So glad there are so many knowledgeable fans here sharing with us with quantifiable and tangible facts on why V/M are what they are (the BEST Ice Dancers out there).
  24. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

    Bournekraatzfan thank you for this post.
    It was very interesting to read about dance rhythm and moves difference and about how dance steps were transferred on ice. This really show what a hard.work VM did during the summer.
    And I adore that OD, but this season SD show how they grow like skaters and dancers during all this years.
    I wish this Bournekraatzfan post could see not only VM ubers, but all FS and ice dance fans. Maybe you could post it on GSD?
  25. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

    Thanks BKFan for your insightful post.
    The new SD is very lovely and reaches out to the audience.
    They dance it with precision and zip and I am sure Tessa will have lovely dresses.
  26. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

    O, dress... I cant wait to see her dress for this SD. Hope this will be something speciall for fashionista Tessa ;)
  27. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    I think it helps that they have a relationship with Jean-Marc that goes back 10 years, similar to Tessa's relationship to Swan. They really worked on actually learning the dance, and have been for some time. These aren't just people they brought in for the Olympics. You can't fake being able to actually dance. You have to put the work in over your whole career.
    maggylyn and (deleted member) like this.
  28. CatherineC

    CatherineC Active Member

    Thanks for your post, Bournekraatzfan !
    That was awesome! ;) Was very interesting to read.
    Seriously, we could write a book about new VM programs (even if we haven't see FD) till October, because everyone there is so smart!
  29. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

    Agree. They always pay attention to ice DANCE on ice, not just for skating, wich is always were on higherst level. Maybe it will be easy to just work on skating and lifts and just put few hands moves in dance style to there programs, but they work so hard on dancing body moves, try to dance, like they are without skates at all. Its very hard and need more time for work.
    And its not just there talent for dancing, but a hard work. From there young adges they were focusing on ice dance, not like most of others skaters, who did singles with ice dance or pair skating. So they learn how to dance on the floor from they were 8 and 10. Plus Tessas ballet background. This all help them to win all, what they won in ice dancing.
    And they spend more time in traning, then others, because all others pay much more attention to there Universaty educations, so didnt spend so much time on ice, like VM.
    Hope this season they put all this together - clean light skating+dancing body moves from reall ballroom dancing and ballet. This will be big input in ice dancing.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2013
  30. iggie

    iggie Well-Known Member

    i put bkf's post on the blog here

    i also turned it into a series where i can publish posts from more fans who can give great analysis and commentary about the dancing itself. i think it's a great idea to compile these commentaries so that we can keep them in mind as the season unfolds. i added another post from fanforum. if you see any posts that you'd like to go in this section, even if it's from the russian forums and you'll just translate it for us + give the original link, then pm me. i'm happy to add more.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.