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Virtue and Moir # 27 - ROAAAAAAAAAAR

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by rainbowkisses, Mar 18, 2013.

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  1. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

    I'm dying to see V/M live again in competition but probably never will. 4CC is in Taipei next year but being an Olympic year there is probably zero chance for any Olympians to show up save for the Japanese Team.
  2. sequins

    sequins Active Member

    I'll try. It was very short. They just spoke about London. What a great job they did. How they felt the love and how the fans there are so knowledgable and that the Canadian team was so strong and the fans appreciated not only Canadians but all the skaters from everywhere.
    They spoke about the silver medal, how it's not what they hoped for but they were so happy with the performances they gave. They have a plan for next year already, they know what they have to do and the silver medal will help motivate them to their goal of winning the Olympics. Scott Russell asked them if they were still having fun and they both chuckled Scott said 'For sure, ya we love what we do' Tessa said 'We wouldn't be doing it otherwise' Then Scott Russell referred to them as 'Olympic Champions for all time':)
    That was about it, they looked great
  3. tapper88

    tapper88 New Member

    Hey everyone! I'm having some nostalgia moments and want to watch some clips of them. Does anyone have any particular cute clips (either of interviews -videos or articles) or performances from 2010 onwards? And why do they resonate so much with you? Thanks in advance!
  4. kittysk8ts

    kittysk8ts Well-Known Member


    Yes, Golightly" this says it all really. And every single "gif" of transitions, lifts, spins, twizzles, step sequences will show these differences when comparing both Tessa and Scott to any other team. As well as a boatload of other attributes. And the "ROAR". OMG the "ROAR". LOVE IT. #facepalm LOL.
  5. rainbowkisses

    rainbowkisses Banned Member

    its so awesome what lambiel said about them. i know some lambiel fans who totally DETEST v/m and i can imagine that this quote would make their blood boil:lol:
  6. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

    Cherub and iggie, I went back in the archive and I found this because I remembered I posted it back then (the link doesn't work anymore though):
    Tapper one of my favs interviews is the one they did at Finlandia 2011, but I can't remember if it was put on YT cuz I can't find it. They were outside and the sun was making Tessa squint and Scott made a joke about it. There's this one because it's so hilarious. There FD fluff for Funny Face. This one because of Scott's "intense!" This one because Tessa can't stop laughing. This one because...I don't really know. This one because they're just so cute. This one just because. Ok I'll stop now and leave some for others lol.
  7. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

    Did anyone hear anything on the CBC radio today? Apparently someone there saw a photo of Tessa & Scott published in the Globe & Mail and said something along the lines of "it's an unwritten rule that you don't publish those sort of photos". Did anyone see/have access to the Globe & Mail this weekend and see what photo those morons at CBC radio might be referring to as something that shouldn't be published.

    Seriously? A radio station that is heard country wide and there's a photo of V/M that shouldn't have been published. I shudder to think what they would have done to have seen the entire dance.

    Oh yeah, hubby was the one who heard such nonsense this evening on the 5PM news -- as in 5 PM here in Ontario (whatever stupid time we are on now -- gah! I hate time switching).

    ETA: OK, apparently it was a photo of Kaetlyn. Let's see, here's the link
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  8. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

    It must have been a photo from the free dance, perhaps the beginning or something.
  9. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

    Thanks for posting that Shay! I love how so many legends of ice dance are full of praise for V/M. Somewhere, I have a clip of Christopher Dean talking about them in glowing terms. I'll have to hunt it down.
  10. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

    Huh? What's wrong with that photo of Kaetlyn?
  11. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan Well-Known Member

    Great question, tapper! I am curious t hear your thoughts, because i know you yourself are a dancer.

    I absolutely adored their Funny Face FD, and this is one of my favourite moments from it. During intimate moments like this they seem to freeze time. Their musicality and connection even comes through in these two seconds. Their free legs come down at exactly the same time in exactly the same manner, perfectly capturing the music ( which unfortunately you cannot hear here because it is a gif, but i know this from watching it a million times on my dvr). They have an innate connection to the music.


    I wish I could find a gif of the part when S'Wonderful comes in and they do the three turns around each other and extend their free legs. Such a beautiful moment.

    Also, thanks for sharing, figuristka. It is really cool to hear from another ice dancer:)
  12. sequins

    sequins Active Member

    WTH? What is wrong with that indeed? What world do these 'complainers' live in? Kaetlyn don't mind why should they? Oh brother!
  13. Bournekraatzfan

    Bournekraatzfan Well-Known Member

    Some people thought it was inappropriate to shoot a skater in such a position from this angle, especially given her age. I can understand why some people would feel that way, especially if they are not very familiar with figure skating. But Kaetlyn doesn't seem to be bothered by it.

    Also, thanks for posting those links, Shay!
  14. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

    It's probably a pic of the last lift lol. Speaking of pictures look at Tessa's face in this one! And this one.
    Please do!
    No problem Melissa.
  15. girlscouse62

    girlscouse62 Well-Known Member

    Was it taken from 2011 Canadian Nats when Tess and Scott were sitting out and Crone /Poirier became Champs?
  16. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

    I never consider V&M skating pointless, nor will I ever give up on them getting a second gold medal. It is too soon for that. I am so glad they are staying another year instead of retiring. I can't wait!
  17. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member

    Yeah, to me it isn't pointless either. It's as Kurt Browning once said: they might not always win, but we do. They are always going to go for art first and it might not always pay off, but those programs stay with you regardless. The quality of their skating and characterization will never disappoint you. Sure, it can be frustrating when judges aren't appreciative enough, but we are. I am not going to ask them to quit just because they haven't been rewarded for a masterful program. I think they know many people received the program more than well and I think they should be proud for the risks they have taken and the themes they have tackled over the years. See the transformation, for instance. Take a look at a picture of Tessa from the Valse Triste days and then compare it to her Carmen. Look at her Mahler and then at her Latin character, etc. So while others might take this versatility for granted, why should we? I am very thankful to live in the same era as these magnificent artists.
  18. sequins

    sequins Active Member

    We do always win, even when they don't. I wouldn't trade a second of their magnificent skating for a medal, or a judges score. If they can't, or don't wanna see what's right in front of them it's their/and the sports loss. Me, I'll just enjoy. I can't wait to see what they will come up with next and it is their last season:(I'd watch them skate forever even if they never medalled again. How many skaters/performancs over the years have you loved that the judges completely overlook? I can think of many. In the end it's all about making themselves proud, knowing who they are, all they've accomplished and enjoying what they do, no regrets, they can't control anything else. They are loved and appreciated by fans, fellow competitors, former skaters, coaches, commentators etc. Nothing that happens this season is gonna change that if anything it will solidify their status even more. I can't wait!
  19. figuristka

    figuristka Member

    Thanks Bournekraatzfan. Haven't really skated for 10yrs but would love to get back to doing some compulsory dances. I find V/M inspiring.

    Since Tessa and Scott did their "hallelujah" in the gala. Took a bit magic away from me seeing it so many times. Any suggestions for a new exhibition program? One music i enjoyed was "kissing you" and its was kindly uploaded for me here sometime many months ago http://compulsorydances.blogspot.ca/2012/04/new-exhibition.html. I love watching them and playing different music to see what would suit.
  20. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov Well-Known Member

    While I respect the comments of Kurt Browning and those who agree with him, it makes me want to scream.

    I have never seen any other team treated quite like V&M have been treated. Yes, we win by getting to see the almost otherwordly skating skills Tessa and Scott possess and the creativity and how they are trying to push the sport. But. Why it is okay, why do people seem to think it's okay that V&M aren't not being marked properly as long as we get to see them skate? I don't want to use the word pointless but I see where gerbil is coming from.

    Tessa and Scott have said they want to push the sport but they have also stated they want to win. If they did not care about winning they would have retired after Vancouver or at least after last season so they could at least have gone out on top. I have no doubt they would be in demand as performers/exhibition skaters for both U.S. and Canadian SOI, the Disson shows and the shows in Europe and Russia. There they could create artistic masterpieces without being hampered by having to fit their vision into a CoP styled program.

    All the changes and overtraining was because they want to push the sport and themselves but also wanted that gold medal. I've seen some photos of Tessa and Scott at the awards ceremony and those were not the faces of a team content to have treated us to one of the best artistic pieces in recent memory, medals be damned.

    This is a competition but with V&M people seem to have gotten to the point that it seems okay that V&M are being put through the wringer. I remember when Kurt made that comment; I felt at that point that he knew something we don't. Perhaps it's a good thing V&M were marked so far back in the SD; I agree with gerbil that even two performances on the level of the Carmen FD Saturday would still have come in second. I feel like because V&M's competition is an American team no one is willing to say anything. Because Americans of course wouldn't play politics.

    And I'm not quite seeing how Marina wants what is best for V&M. In icedance it's always been just as much about what takes place off the ice as what takes place on the ice. Marina has been around long enough to know that. Whether it is based in fact or just superstition, we've seen in the past teams (and even singles skaters) keep injuries or illnesses quiet for fear the judges would use that against them. Marina isn't stupid; for her to talk about Tessa's weaknesses was something we usually don't see a coach do. At least not during a competition and not while a team she was trying to help win a title was still in the thick of things.

    I really do appreciate being able to witness a team like V&M. Honestly, I do. It's been a long time since we've had a generational team the likes of Tessa and Scott but it's not okay to watch them struggle because they are at a loss as to what more to do to get the marks they should be getting. Why is it because it's V&M, we need to trade one thing (fair marks) for another (technically and artistically brilliant programs). Why is it with V&M, those two things seem to now be mutually exclusive?

    While I disagree that D&W's FD's are masterpieces and that they deserved to win Worlds last season, their fans say otherwise. And while I don't read the D&W thread, I've seen comments in other threads. Those fans were livid and spoke up. They weren't happy just to have witnessed what they thought were great programs and the medals didn't matter. The same for the other teams who people have perceived as ripped off. W&P last season had a FD that really touched people and while those folks enjoyed that FD, again they spoke out against what they felt was an unfair placement at Worlds. Only V&M and their fans seem to be forced to throw in the towel in a way and say placements don't matter as long as we get to see them skate.

    Even with DelShoes people spoke up about them getting shafted. I never heard people say that in the end we should just be happy that we got to witness Frida, The Untouchables, The Piano etc. so in the end it didn't matter that Isabelle and Olivier were marked down and should have at least two more world medals than they do.

    Sorry for the negativity but it seems even Skate Canada seems blase about their own team. It bothered me when Kurt said that. I just feel that Tessa and Scott have been sacrified by Skate Canada or at the very least they don't have their federations full support. Even their coach whom they seem very loyal two seems to undermine them.

    Okay maybe it's time I focus on fluff. Maybe I need a dose of Satuday nights Carmen performance and Scott's coaching of Tessa.

    Hoping next season sees a change.
  21. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

    Hi Carmen, great post!

    I can only speak for myself when I say I am happy to see Tessa and Scott compete despite at the same time not seeing them getting the marks the deserve. I have no control over the judges, I have zero influence in the skating world because I'm just an uber fan. I have also been vocal here and in other threads on FSU that I will forever not understand why D/W gets better PCS than V/M. The only only only time I agree with the higher mark is for their SD choreography where I do think Giselle is a slight better choreographed dance than Waltz Must Go On. I think it's a therapeutic thing as a V/M uber to tell myself that be happy, witness the magnificence of Tessa and Scott for another year.

    As for other fans, I think it's also a group support mentality here where we console each other on their loss. I don't think fans here would say such a thing in competition pbp thread or any other thread where discussions include those outside of the uber circle and would defend V/M if their legacy and performances are ever questioned.

    However I do agree with you that those in power or have any slight influence should NOT just say let's be happy with Tessa and Scott having another go at the Olympics. Especially Skate Canada should fight tooth and nails for them to get the PCS they deserve. Same thing as Kurt Browning, who may not hold a position at the ISU but being a former Champ there are people in the sport paying attention to what he has to say. As for Marina... I really don't know what to say about her. I really appreciate what she's done with Tessa and Scott and loved every piece of choreography she gave them. I'm still inclined to believe her comments during Worlds were a result of circumstance rather than playing favorites. She shouldn't say anything until the end of the competition I agree but I'm not sure if it's because she is trying to sabotage Tessa. Had Meryl changed a heavier skirt and messed up her twizzles, would Marina consciously shut up and say nothing to protect them during the competition? I'm not so sure...
  22. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov Well-Known Member

    Thanks walei and your response sheds a little light on those "we should just be happy..." type comments. I do suppose that is a healthier attitude to take. It is true that myself (and others) being disgusted and angry on behalf Tessa and Scott is doing little to change what the judges are inclined to do as we are just fans. I think maybe over time I might be able to take that view but everytime I watched Carmen the other day I would alternate with my reactions.

    Yes, V&M were on fire and each competition/each season they add yet another layer to what it is they already do so well. Every year I'm bowled over by just how good these two are but at the start of the new season when they return from summer training they seem to get that much better. V&M have advanced their skating and icedance in general so much that this seasons V&M would trounce 09/10 and even 11/12 Funny Face V&M. And I'm betting that judging aside, next seasons V&M would be able to defeat this seasons V&M as well if you know what I mean. Watching V&M from season to season you wouldn't think there is room for them to improve much more than they have but they do.

    OTOH, watching what Tessa and Scott put out there on the ice then feeling the judges just ignored what we all saw (people in the skating world saw what we saw as well) and didn't even bother marking what happened on the ice makes me sad and disgusted. At the beginning of the season when Carmen debuted many of us did say, if Carmen can't get the job done then what will? I haven't given up totally but this pattern has been in place for most of this quadrennial.

    I'm hoping V&M continue to push themselves artistically (they have said they would) but I also hope they lighten up a little on the difficulty. It's possible to create an artistic piece while dialing back on packing the program wall to wall with footwork and difficult transitions. I'm not convinced that had anything to do with their marks but V&M can't have another season (especially an Olympic season) trying to master all the difficulty within their programs. They need a balance between artistical and technical difficulty and they need to if not be completely polished at the beginning of the season they need a program that doesn't take as long to build and peak.

    That is one of the things I just don't understand. Every federation has played politics in the past but I've never seen any federation seem to ignore/give up on a team who are medal contenders in general but definitely not gold medal contenders. Who seems to openly not support a team who can bring them a gold medal?

    Maybe Marina didn't mean any harm but her years in the sport coaching and providing choreography for some pretty big names makes me not so quick to give her the benefit of the doubt. She truely should know better. People were talking/guessing about Tessa anyway but her confirming that Tessa was having issues did not help the situation at all.

    Fortunately for D&W, they seldom seem to make really huge mistakes (ie outright falls, missed lifts) so ITA I'm not sure how Marina would react if they were in a similar situation.
  23. rvi5

    rvi5 Active Member

    Photo of V/M in yesterday's "24 hours" commuter newspaper.

    -Select the calendar option.
    -Choose March 18th.
    -Click on top right corner of page until you get to page 20.


    Figure Skating is finally getting some publicity in the various newspapers within Canada due to Worlds. So far, I have seen articles and photos of V/M, Kaetlyn, D/R, and Patrick. There have also been ads promoting the Worlds competition.
  24. m_chenning

    m_chenning Active Member

    As for 2010, I like this one olympics profile. It was their dream, goal, they were so young but sharp-cut in their craft. And that tango on the floor. :swoon: . And I like that "Not shy anymore" titel.

    Not shy- exactly :D
  25. volunteer

    volunteer Member

    While nothing can ever take away my appreciation of their skating and the beauty of their programs, yes, their results this year have been a huge, huge disappointment. I can clearly separate these two aspects of my fandom. What happened over the course of this season, and no, I'm not picking on DW, just making the obvious comparison, which clearly the perception was that early on VM had the superior program, and slowly that changed. Was it politicking? Are speed and consistency really the primary "fundamentals" which the judges place the most importance on? When I hear that DW project their "passion to win" in their FD, as a reason to justify their newfoundconnection, my first thought is how is this representing the emotion of the program? Is the theme of ND about winning? Surely the artistic aspects of anyprogram are much more intricate and complex.

    While I don't know the answers to these questions, what I do know is that the team around VM first and foremost have to figure out how to adjust their training regimen so that their programs have more polish at the begining of the season. We all hear that they develop their programs throughout the season, but that is putting them at a disadvantage in building their momentum, in comparison to DW who show up with essentially the same well practiced elements. The second point is that they really need programs which combine all of their exquisite lines and carriage and have a "perceived" element of more speed. And thirdly, they don't need a coach who makes statements about their confidence and unaddressed costume issues which impact on their skating.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
    aka_gerbil and (deleted member) like this.
  26. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

    Its sport, so sometime you win, sometine you lose. I think this what Kurt want to say.
    I dont know - is this good for sport to made scandal?
    I know for sure - before 2010 OG at seminars V-M was shown to judges at judging meetings.
    Now they show D-W, like an example of perfect ice dancers. So Kurt know about this, he know about Patrick gold. Patrick and Lysacheck helped T-S in Vancouver, so maybe this time T-S helped Patrick?
    about Carmen (i mean some positive posts will be good)/
    And guys, i think it will be good, if you express your opinion on ISU fscebook page. I know, maybe they didnt read it, but who knows, maybe they will pay attention to posts about ice dance must go more in dance direction and all what you think

  27. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

    I think it was definitely politicking. The discourse over which program was better changed when one program got overscored and the other undermarked. People cited the scores as evidence of which program was better, ignoring the fact that the scoring of the two teams had been manipulated to give a desired political result.

    I loved your bit about the performance/connection side of things.

    Again, coming back to myself, this newfoundconnection spiel about D/W is driving me crazy because they're trying to definte connection as chemistry and bond not what it really is in terms of dancing/ice dancing. Forcing yourself to stare sappily into someones eyes or spouting platitudes in the press is not what connection is in dance. To quote myself:

    Connection on ice is empirically about movement. D/W are either confusing what on-ice connection is with an off-ice bond/relationship or they're trying to reframe on-ice connection to be what an off-ice bond is. In the press this season, including one recent article that reads much like that one V/M article last spring during CSOI talking about their bond, when D/W have talked about their newfoundconnection it's always done in terms that apply off-ice. They try to claim that they're like a married couple. They try to say that they're just as bonded and have the same type of off-ice relationship as V/M have. They never talk about how this newfoundconnection has manifested in their actual skating. They can't because their on-ice connection hasn't changed one iota. Everything they do has to be choreographed. They can't make adjustments on a per-performance basis like V/M can (or P/B, or B/A could, or a whole host of other teams can/could.). D/W may put on an act now, trying to mimic V/M in superficial ways, but it doesn't change the fact that they still can't move, interact, react, and make adjustment in real-time or do the same kinds of complex, interdependent moves that other teams, especially V/M, do.

    It pains me, but yes. They're unfortunately going to have to dial back on their difficulty next season. It's not because they're not capable of it, it's just they don't have the luxury of being able to have new elements and spend the season perfecting them when they're skating against a team that's more or less done the same elements for 5 seasons now. That in and of itself is sickening. It's supposed to be the kiss of death to reuse the same program in ice dance. In the past, great emphasis was put on ALL of the teams coming out and doing something new each year. New elements, new moves. It was what you had to do to win. Everyone was in the same boat though--everyone was still learning their new moves and elements at the beginning of the season and perfecting them over the year. It was rewarded and encouraged. Now, you try something new to your own detriment.

    The speed thing bugs me as well because V/M are just as fast and powerful but it's not perceived as such due to D/W's smoke-and-mirrors. Watch their stroking. D/W have to take two strokes to every 1 that V/M take. D/W also lack the ability to build speed from nothing (like V/M do) and the ability to arrest and change momentum the way V/M can. D/W have to go full out, all of the time.

    ITA on a new coaching situation. V/M talked at length in their book how important it was to keep Tessa's leg issues hidden during the 09-10 season. Beyond that situation, hiding injuries in ice dance has been done for years for the reason of not wanting to show the judges weakness. Yes, V/M were in a hole (that they shouldn't have been in and wouldn't have been in if D/W had been marked properly), but the FD should have been a new day and a chance to rally (if the judging had been fair). It didn't need to be out there before the FD that Tessa is having confidence issues because the judges were just going to be looking for it. Also, it didn't need to be out there for next season because apparantly unlike the other 3 disciplines, each new competetion isn't a blank slate. Instead, every problem you've held in the past is held against you. Having confidence issues in Spring 2013, but you work through it over the summer? Too bad. We're still going to stick it to you. Botched a lift in the first competetion of the season? Too bad. We'll be holding this against you all year.
  28. Cachoo

    Cachoo Well-Known Member

    Yes-being able to show innovation and emotion with a lot of speed is how I see it thus far. I think D/W are incredible technically. I also think they have plenty of artistry. I think V/M are incredible artistically. I think they do very very well technically too. Look---you all may not like me but I have to say this: I am worried that they are moving away from romance. I wasn't wild about "Carmen"----and it was not V/M's fault. I'm just so tired of seeing certain pieces used over and over again. God knows that they tried to breath some freshness into the piece. Romance is their wheelhouse: No one does it better---I'm not sure anyone in history ever did it better. In an Olympic year why move away from that? I know they want to stretch but there are real risks doing this in an Olympic year. And again I'm sorry to say this on an uber thread but D/W are worthy competition. Right now I'm watching their programs over and over again because of their clean precision and -as Simon says--their crispness. It is a pleasure to see that unison. I want a piece of music not so well known for V/M so that when we hear it the rest of our lives we won't remember the title: It will simply be Tessa and Scott's song. And I want it to be romantic. I'm going to leave now for awhile. I'm not here to cause trouble--I like V/M a great deal and am worried. I'm sure in time I'll irritate the D/W ubers too. (Retreating to the Love Thread if I can find it.)
    shan and (deleted member) like this.
  29. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

    Hope no. VM must did something new, mature. So all will remember there FD and will not remeber who won this competition.
    And of couse i dont think D-W are OGM already. V-M - are. So all could happened. VM will have more time, hope will not have show in August. And what i loveaout this two - when D-W all the time talking Marina said them to do this FD, or this SD, on doing this elements, V-M have Tessa who have her own ideas, her own style.
  30. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    I think what some people feel is that they can achieve that crispness because they don't have as many transitions, their program has a weird construction (three lifts at the end), and many of their elements are old, so of course it's easier to be crisp. That would contribute to a high PE score (though V&M's carriage helps them a lot there). OTOH, V&M are moving their bodies in a completely different way this year, they have very complicated new elements, they have very little setup time for some of them (which works for them because they can set it up in 1-2 strokes), and in theory these things are supposed to offset D&W's crispness by way of higher TR, CC, SS. However, the judges are marking only on an overall basis where D&W's speed/crispness gives them a 9.96 for CC. As V&M fans we are left feeling like was that beautiful Carmen program worth it? They worked so hard to do interesting new elements that really suited the music, but if they didn't get enough credit, should they have just done something easier? Maybe if they didn't spend time this season working on lifts and choreography, they could've gotten all level 4 step sequences and won. As in ice dance fan, I don't want to see that. I want variety.
    ITA with the first sentence. Like I always said, when we mention Carmina Burana, Bolero, or Memorial every ice dance fan knows exactly what we mean. I want that for V&M. I don't care whether it's romantic or not though.

    I don't think you have to leave. :) The discussion is interesting and you were respectful to V&M.
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