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Virtue and Moir #22 - To Russia with love

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by martyross, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. martyross

    martyross Well-Known Member

    sometimes it may be also the chemistry between the dancers that can draw in the casual viewer, when you sense the warmth and the harmony between two people displayed on the ice. especially with a gourgeous looking couple, plus beautiful costumes etc. these may be among the reasons why casual audience may prefer our Tessa an Scott. this year the sexual chemistry will hit such level that it will be difficult not to buy ((((:)
  2. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

    Dont know... I feel like with the way T-S skated "Mahler" at OG i am not wonder they got standing ovation :) I remeber even TAT gave them standing ovations in Vancouver.
    When "Mahler" wasnt skated so great (like at GPF for example) i could understand people said its boring.
    But in this season exibition did Tessa-Scott did something speciall? But i think a lot off people felt like they watch something too personal and sexual. That Tessa and Scott and all about them :D
  3. Sahararainfall

    Sahararainfall Active Member

    Wow! According to your theory, I am the one out of 10 people without knowledge of figure skating who preferred Tessa and Scott over Meryl and Charlie and I am not even Canadian! Should I feel special? :lol:

    Just for the record, I am from a middle class background from a third world country (which means I am poor by US and European standard :rofl:) and don't have an elite bone in my body. So if your theory (as I understand it) is that Meryl and Charlie has more mass/public appeal than Tessa and Scott, I just can't agree because, well, I am a living example that that is not true. Maybe if the 9/10 people are from USA, but the rest of the world? I just can't agree.

    Also just for the record, I am very uncomfortable with the "high-end luxury store" and "budgetary supermarket" analogy as well. I mean what's wrong with budgetary stores? :lol:
  4. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

    The analogy works fine for me and I am ex third world too. Once you take away what people see as elitist/offensive their (T&S) movement is high end in the artistic sense while in the case of D&W more is actually less.

    However, keep in mind when it comes to consumption of luxury goods the third world is very much the first world.
  5. puglover

    puglover Well-Known Member

    I prefer programs that people either love or hate then ones they are just "meh". I do like D & W and I find their skating very exciting but there is a sameness to it for me. I felt the 2011 year they did pick something very different and although they did win their first World Gold Medal - I can't remember one step about it and it felt out of their comfort zone without the big dramatic storyline. Some people may feel "Carmen" is too personal and sexual - many will think it is dynamite. Can't please everyone. I think most masterpieces are like that.
  6. browning

    browning Active Member

    I am a V/M fan but i like D/W but i have to disagree with you conclusion that 9/10 causal fans would pick d/w. During the Olympics i was travelling and nearly missed the FD live but did catch both dances and so did my travel buddies, 3 other friends whom did not even know who v/w or d/w were. After seeing v/w skate my friends exact words in reference to v/m skate just as the program ended were "they were so good they have to win." Yes my friends are Canadian but my friend who had said that did even realize that v/m are Canadian at first. and my other friend when she realize v/m were Canadian said something along the line of "we are going to get a Gold medal" because that was the best she had seen in the competition. They had no bias, as never watched figure skating and only watched it because I had wanted to and it was the Olympics. Yes D/W can be more dynamic at times but not everyone responses to that, we all find different things entertaining and to assume that 9/10 people are going to pick D/W
    is an assumption that I think you would find hard to prove correct.
  7. Alixana

    Alixana Definitely NOT a sonogram

    Clapping .. the next Olympic sport! :lol:
    I do love this thread :watch:
  8. ofdarkness

    ofdarkness New Member

    Being fun, upbeat and catchy is not necessarily the only criteria that draws an audience in. I don't agree with the assumption that just because one can clap along or that it's "fun", the audience will like it better. It's up to an individual and not an audience whether they were entertained by something. Everyone has different tastes. For example, someone could argue that pop music is fun and entertaining, which is true, but I for one do not like it. Everyone prefers a certain style, and it would be unfair to clump a "majority" together.

    You also can't deny that Mahler drew an audience in, perhaps in a different way, but even their own coach was enraptured. Rather than physically rousing (as in, it's catchy, they feel like they want to move), I think VM's programs tend to rouse emotions. And I think Carmen is both ;)
  9. Golightly

    Golightly Well-Known Member


    My favorite part is the entry into the twizzles. In fact, both the entry and the exit. It's basically them showing off their musicality, it gives me goose bumps. But with Carmen, you feel, more than ever, that each movement conveys something deeper. They're still drawing you in even when you can "clap along". In fact, you don't feel like clapping, you just want to stare at how magnificent the whole program is.

    Sent from my Inspire 4G using Tapatalk 2
  10. iNap

    iNap Active Member

    They spend time with Monica Lewinsky. She now move to London :D
  11. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

    Are you OK with geography and who she is? :lol:
  12. skatingfan12

    skatingfan12 New Member

    I think I may have been presumptuous to say 90% of casual skating watchers would enjoy D/W more, but I think it is more than a 50/50 split.

    Will the rousing/entertainment-style of skating automatically win them an Olympic gold medal? No, definitely not. It’s likely going to come down to who performs best and gets their levels the day of the competition.

    However, I think those casual watchers tend to appreciate D/W skate to music that’s recognizable to the masses. Back to my analogy of Dancing With the Stars, contestants dance to song that are pretty identifiable, popular songs whether they’re dancing to the rhumba, waltz, etc. They enjoy programs where they know the music (i.e. Eleanor Rigby, Phantom, “On the Floor” in their Latin SD) or something they can clap along to (Die Fledermaus, Giselle). Dick Button once made a comment about their skating that was something like, “I was sitting at the edge of my seat the whole time!” and I think it’s just the feeling non-skating fans would have about D/W. I think this just works better to people who don’t have clue about skating. A few of D/W’s programs have become show/exhibition programs and it’s easy to see why, since these program are entertaining and they work so well when being performed to a crowd.

    This is in contrast to a program like Mahler where it seems like your seeing a special moment between two people and it’s not overtly extroverted. Many people have said Tessa and Scott show the relationship between a man and woman and that’s something I agree with, but sometimes these intimate moments don’t suck you in right now and it takes a couple of times to truly appreciate, which most casual watchers don’t see.

    In regards, lots of people talking about, away from this thread, that “Carmen” is an extremely divisive program – you either absolutely love it and absolutely hate it, and not much in between.
  13. elle123

    elle123 Member

    I think it all boils down to personal preference. Those with no figure skating/ice dancing knowledge are going to choose whichever program speaks to them personally. They aren't going to be able to fathom how difficult element A or B is. Whether it's the music, choreo, performance or costuming - it's hard to tell who's going to like what.
    I think sometimes we get too caught up into what OTHER people like or don't like and get personally offended (I suffer from this from time to time as well), when all that matters is what YOU like. It would be another story if crowds had a say in who the winner or had any weight with the judging panel, but luckily for us it doesn't.
    With that being said: GO CARMEN :)
  14. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

    Go, Canada, go :D
    I think they will change costumes for SD. At least Tessa. What do you think? Or its not enough time untill GPF?
  15. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    Scott might change considering that his friends made fun of him during SC. :p
  16. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

    At the rate we are going we will have to pick a new thread title before the GPF so all of you put your thinking caps on.

    My choice is:

  17. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    Amazing considering V&M "only have 2 or 3 fans" isn't it? :D
  18. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

    "Dance Me to the End of Love" - both a reference to Carmen and Leonard Cohen. A little downbeat, but given the FD's ending.....
  19. naan

    naan New Member

    I am one of casual skating watchers who don't know anything about ice dance since I usually watch singles, but I prefer V/M over D/W. Not only me, but most of my friends and family prefer V/M. I think Tessa and Scott are very popular in Asia, especially in Korea and China. (Japanese people love them, but they may prefer D/W since they had many chances to skate in Japan )

    This. I think this is why Tessa and Scott are beloved by Asian fans ;)
  20. girlscouse62

    girlscouse62 Well-Known Member

    Yes love this
  21. Sahararainfall

    Sahararainfall Active Member

    If in terms of quality of movement, the analogy fits, (and I totally agree) but it could also be (mis)interpreted as only people who can afford luxury goods can appreciate T/S, like they are a team that cannot reach the masses and I don't think that is true at all so I'm a little uncomfortable with that.

    T/S have proven they can do that rousing/entertaining style in the form of the Latin FD. First and only complete performance and it brought the house down. It was also well received in its show/ex version. They just chose not to do that style every freaking year because they can do something else. On the other hand...well, never mind.

    And here I am hoping for another cheesy commercial. :lol:
  22. Carmen Ovsiannikov

    Carmen Ovsiannikov Well-Known Member

    Thanks martyross. :eek:

    I do think that V&M's dance spin in Carmen is gorgeous. It's clear that they have recognized the need to improve that element and it also stays with the theme of the program. I love how Scott holds Tessa's foot through the changes of position and in the exit. Yet another way to make a required element interesting; more than just something that is there because it needs to be.

    What gerbil said.

    I think Tessa and Scott recognized that they needed to have all their bases covered. Granted, they have always come across as the type of team who would work to improve themselves anyway but V&M probably also recognized that they can't leave anything to chance.
  23. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

    Am I the only one that actually like some of their previous dance spins?

    Pink Floyd: Great positions, interesting fluidity and transitions, superb match. Not the fastest, admittedly, but they stay reasonably well centered too.
    Mahler: Entry right after the lift is so smooth you could wipe a baby's tears with it. Positions elegant. Nuance and emotion perfect (look how Scott withdraws his hand to his body).

    I love the Carmen spin for reasons people have articulated, but don't think that it was an element they had to work on. D/W have nutsy speed and difficult positions, though.
  24. zilam98

    zilam98 Well-Known Member

    continuing the theme of audience appeal vs. judges' approval, why doesnt ISU sell figureskating further by making it a reality show? they might get the arena audience to vote a la America's Funniest Home Videos system or bring a host to coordinate tv viewers' timing of phone-in/online/text votes--then add the judges' scores to the audience scores to determine the winner a la The Voice? :EVILLE:

    who knows they might get the tv viewership they've wanted for so long?
  25. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

    I can understand why you wouldn't finish that line cause if you did, even though we are in a V/M topic, you'd get hammered for saying something negative about certain team(s). It has seemed to me also that some teams stick to what is tried and true and works for them. They seldom seem to go out of their comfort zone, everything seems to be about being fast when I'm looking for finish. Oh well, that's OK. I prefer Tessa & Scott. I just adore BOTH of their programs this season, even with the glitches.
  26. jl22aries

    jl22aries Active Member

    Zilam :lol: Yup, let's push to mass market the sport and aim for a more broad common denomination (I was going to write "lowest"...but there are some very sharp individuals I know who LOVE a good "My Gypsy Wedding" or "insert reality television show name" Hi guys!)

    I knew nothing about ice dance in 2007 when I first saw VM skate (I avoided the discipline, just wasn't compelled by it), and loved them immediately.

    I also looove their Carmen spin. These days I actually youtube-skip the spins in almost all the disciplines, bypassing 30 seconds of the program I'm just not interested in seeing. Not this spin.
  27. iNap

    iNap Active Member

    These causal watcher not know what they are missing V-M programs so greate :lol: Funny face suck more at end of season for elite fans ;)
  28. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry but I'm still giggling from your post. When I finished reading this response all I could think of was "it's got a good beat and I can dance to it" from a show I grew up watching/listening/and trying to learn to dance -- American Bandstand with Dick Clark. I realize that's not a reason for liking a particular dance but sometimes it has made it more enjoyable to watch multiple times V&M's Mahler over something like B&K's March With Me (and I was a rather big fan of B&K -- still loving my Shae-Bo!).

    However, that being said, just because I may enjoy a piece of music doesn't mean I enjoy the skating to it. I loved the music from the movie Ghost but cringed when watching I/K skate to some of the same music. For me, it seems there needs to be a harmony between the music and what I see on the ice -- a good marriage, if you will.

    Skating has been a good sport to me -- I've learned to appreciate some good/interesting music that I would never have heard before. I've also learned to appreciate difference in interpretion to music and what each team can bring to the ice -- well most of the time.
  29. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

    Though I'm not sold on spins as an ice dance element, if they have to be there, I appreciate ones that contribute to the story. When Scott touches Tessa's face in the Carmen FD spin, that creates a moment of tenderness which Carmen allows Don Jose (and of course it also makes the spin much more difficult). I love the alignment of their legs in that spin position. The way he holds her blade, then brings her out of the spin, suggests that at that moment Don Jose may have the upper hand, or perhaps that Carmen has let down her guard - not for long of course. I remember liking the Pink Floyd spin positions also.
    Cherub721 and (deleted member) like this.
  30. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

    I like FF's dance spin, Tessa's hand positions were so delicate and the way she plays with her skirt.