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vh1's "List" of the "Greatest Women of Music" (1992 - Present) Countdown…WTF?!

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by Cyn, Feb 24, 2012.

  1. Cyn

    Cyn Well-Known Member

    ….Seriously, after watching one hour of this "countdown", my reaction to it was a resounding "WTF?!"

    Even taking into consideration that the countdown was for Women in Music of the Past 20 Years (vh1 did a countdown of the Greatest Women In Music of All-Time a few years back, which Aretha Franklin won), this list is beyond ridiculous.

    If you were smart and didn't bother watching, I found the list in its entirety here, and after reading through it, my reaction to it hadn't changed at all, but my next thoughts about it were:

    -- "WTF were these idiots smoking?!"
    -- "Who the hell decided on this, a bunch of Tweens?!"

    Their (vh1's) List:

    (the ones bolded by me are my "WTF?" entries)

    100. Pussycat Dolls
    99. Demi Lovato
    98. Ashanti
    97. Grace Potter
    96. Mandy Moore
    95. Wilson Phillips
    94. Colbie Caillat
    93. Feist
    92. Jordin Sparks
    91. Monica
    90. Regina Spektor
    89. Hillary Scott (Lady Antebellum)
    88. SWV
    87. Robyn
    86. Ingrid Michaelson
    85. Faith Evans
    84. Avril Lavigne
    83. Meg White (The White Stripes)
    82. Miley Cyrus
    81. Spice Girls
    80. Sara Bareilles
    79. PJ Harvey (Sonic Youth)
    77. Hayley Williams (Paramore)
    76. Leona Lewis
    75. Kim Deal (The Breeders, The Pixies)
    74. Paula Abdul
    73. Dido
    72. Brandy
    71. Natalie Merchant
    70. Macy Gray
    69. Courtney Love
    68. Indigo Girls
    67. M.I.A.
    66. Natasha Bedingfield
    65. Liz Phair
    64. Eve
    63. Jill Scott
    62. Leann Rimes
    61. Shirley Manson (Garbage)
    60. Florence + The Machine
    59. Destiny’s Child
    58. Miranda Lambert
    57. Ke$ha
    56. Gloria Estefan
    55. Fiona Apple
    54. Tori Amos
    53. Sarah McLachlan
    52. En Vogue
    51. Nelly Furtado
    50. Lauryn Hill
    49. Amy Lee (Evanescence)
    48. Aaliyah
    47. Kylie Minogue
    46. Toni Braxton
    45. Lil’ Kim
    44. Erykah Badu
    43. Taylor Swift
    42. Melissa Etheridge
    41. Jewel
    40. Nicki Minaj
    39. Dixie Chicks
    38. Salt N Pepa
    37. Faith Hill
    36. Shakira
    35. Shania Twain
    34. Queen Latifah
    33. Norah Jones
    32. Fantasia
    31. Cher
    30. Sade
    29. Bjork
    28. k.d. Lang
    27. Fergie
    26. Amy Winehouse
    25. Sheryl Crow
    24. Jennifer Hudson
    23. Carrie Underwood
    22. Annie Lennox
    21. Celine Dion
    20. Rihanna
    19. Kelly Clarkson
    18. Missy Elliott
    17. Katy Perry
    16. Jennifer Lopez
    15. Alanis Morissette
    14. Alicia Keys
    13. Gwen Stefani
    12. TLC
    11. Britney Spears
    10. P!nk
    09. Mary J. Blige
    08. Christina Aguilera
    07. Janet Jackson
    06. Whitney Houston
    05. Adele
    04. Lady Gaga
    03. Beyoncé
    02. Mariah Carey
    01. Madonna


    What in the fcuk are the likes of

    - Pussycat "Talented Only For Slutty Dancing/Lyrics" Dolls
    - Miley "Autotune is My BFF" Cyrus,
    - Demi "I Was One of the Twerps on 'Barney and Friends'" Lovato,
    - Nikki "I Exorcised What Little Talent I Had On The Grammys" Minaj,
    - Fantasia "American Idol Mistake Winnter #1" Barrino,
    - Jordin "American Idol Mistake Winner #2" Sparks, and
    - Mandy "How The Fcuk Did I Make It Onto This List?" Moore

    being on this list at all?


    Also, the following women,

    - #79 - P.J. Harvey
    - #75 - Kim Deal (Bassist and Lead Singer, The Pixies and Rhythm Guitarist and Lead Singer, The Breeders)
    - #68 - Indigo Girls
    - #61 - Shirley Manson (Lead Singer, Garbage(
    - #56 - Gloria Estafan (Lead Singer, Miami Sound Machine, Solo Artist)
    - #54 - Tori Amos
    - #53 - Sarah McLachlan (in addition to her Solo Career, the founder of a "little" festival called Lilith Fair
    - #42 - Melissa Etheridge
    - #37 - Faith Hill
    - #35 - Shania Twain
    - #34 - Queen Latifah
    - #31 - Cher (She's mothercukin' CHER?!, FFS, only one of the greatest icons of Women in Music?!)
    - #22 - Annie Lennox
    - #21 - Celine Dion

    should all be much higher up in the list. I'm absolutely gobsmacked that the likes of Sarah McLachlan., Faith Hill, Shania Twain, Motherfcukin CHER, and Celine Dion aren't in the Top 20 at the very least, and I don't even much like their music :lol: .

    Even more :confused: are these singers/artists placements:

    - #76 - Leona Lewis (debut album in 2007)
    - #67 - M.I.A. (debut album in 2007)
    - #58 - Miranda Lambert (debut album 2005)
    - #57 - Ke$ha (debut album, Animal, in 2010)
    - #43 - Taylor Swift (debut album in 2006))
    - #20 - Rihanna (shouldn't be anywhere near the Top 20, much less in it; debut album in 2005)
    - #19 - Kelly Clarkson (I could see her in the 20-30 range, but Top 20? Not yet.)
    - #17 - Katy Perry (all flash and no substance; Auto-Tune Queen; debut album 2008)
    - #11 - Britney Spears (Tween Pop Pwinces; some may argue in favor of her placement, but I think her singing sucks :p)
    - #05 - Adele (she's awesome, but #5 when she's only been around for 3 years?)

    (Apologies for the long-winded rant above; it should be obvious that this BS pisses me off :rofl: )


    My question is, why the hell isn't Johnette Napolitano (bassist and lead singer of Concrete Blonde) on this list? :mitchell:

    Who would you include/exclude from this list to make it better?
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2012
  2. Tesla

    Tesla Whippet Good

    Where the hell is Aimee Mann? I agree. That whole list is a WTF.
  3. Cyn

    Cyn Well-Known Member

    Good question.

    Another one is Chrissie Hyndes.
  4. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

    Just looking at the country singers, because you truly don't want to get me started on the rest, I'd move Miranda Lambert up the list. And I'd move Faith Hill down. Way down. Like, off. Sorry, Cyn. :) I do agree with you about putting Shania higher, though.

    As for all the overrated youngsters, you know they just put those on there to attract the key demographic to the TV special.
  5. Smiley0884

    Smiley0884 Well-Known Member

    Wow, that list is an absolute joke!!! UGH!

    ETA: Right on that it's all tweens!!! I do think Miley/Demi are talented, but they haven't done enough to be considered "Greatest of all time" By any means. And neither have the Pussy cat dolls, Niki Minaj, Ke$ha, ect.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2012
  6. jamesy

    jamesy shut in

    Ke$ha :rofl:

    One of the hotels in Vegas has Dealertainers, which as blackjack dealers dressed like celebrities. Every so often they get on a little stage and "perform" a song. I could not figure out who the random blonde girl was until she was announced as Ke$ha. I thought that was particularly fitting.
  7. falling_dance

    falling_dance Coaching Patrick

    I wish Sinead O'Connor and St. Vincent had made the list.
  8. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

    Why is Wilson Phillips on that list? And how did you not bold them? Or the Spice Girls?

    And Carrie Underwood?? She should be off just for that ridiculous "Jesus Take the Wheel" song. And don't even get me started on the "vandalize a pick-up truck" song--don't even know what it's called.
  9. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

    It's called "Before He Cheats." :)
  10. FiveRinger

    FiveRinger Well-Known Member

    I don't agree with most of the list. But, Wilson Phillips and Spice Girls did make an impact on music. Now, I don't like the impact, but they made one, none the less.

    There's just no reason for Carrie Underwood to be on the list.

    They should have made an age requirement or longevity requirement or something.
  11. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

    That whole list is a joke :rofl:
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  12. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

    I think this list was all or partly voted on? That probably explains a huge amount of the :eek: It also HEAVILY favors more recent artists. I love love love Adele but should she honestly be in the top 5? A year ago most people I know didn't even know who she was. I realize both albums have been stellar and 21 is a masterpiece but I think it takes a bit longer than 2 albums to assert yourself in the top 20, much less the top 5. Nicki Minaj is another joke, she has had exactly 1 hit and makes the list at all, much less in the top 40. She benefits from being so current. I don't have a problem with Kelly Clarkson being top 20 since she has been around for 10 years now and has one of the best voices in pop music, plus Breakaway was one of the best pop albums of the 2000's, IMO. I am completely biased when it comes to Kelly, though. :p
  13. overedge

    overedge Janny uber

    Any list of "greatest women in music" that includes the Pussycat Dolls is automatically invalid. That's like having a list of "greatest men in music" that includes Milli Vanilli.
  14. Beefcake

    Beefcake Guest

    Simmer down, now. :p First off, it's VH1 ... not exactly THE last word in music. Second, in VH1's defense, it's not like there were a lot of great women to choose from ... as the list is from "1992 ... present." :saint:

    The prior 20 years -- 1972-1992 -- OTOH, would've been worth discussing! :kickass: (Psst:O'Connor, Hynde, Mann, and what-not would be in that era ... left off here due to the referenced window.)

    If Lil' Kim and Katy Perry are on this list, then Miley also deserves to be on this list, and in fact salvia girl wuzrobbed by being listed below Paula Abdul. In fact, II, any famous singer from that era (but Jessica Simpson) listed below Paula or not listed at all wuzrobbed. :lol:

    Why all the hating on Carrie Underwood? I must be out of touch as to what is good. Oh, wait, is it because she had the nerve to sing about Jesus?
    shan and (deleted member) like this.
  15. allezfred

    allezfred Master/Mistress of Sneer Staff Member

    Meh, it's just a list. Put together another list and I'm sure a whole bunch of other people will pick holes in that one too. It's a bit of fun and not meant to be taken too seriously.

    Has Chrissie Hyndes done anything of note in the past 20 years? Cause if she has I'm blanking on it. :shuffle:

    Cher had "Believe" and that's been about it. We do have her to thank for autotuning though. :lol:

    Much as I love Sinead O'Connor and her amazing voice, her worldwide peak was 1990.

    Who is St. Vincent? :slinkaway

    Not completely biased. You were very restrained and didn't put her name forward when we were discussing who should play Whitney Houston in a biopic. :saint:
    BigB08822 and (deleted member) like this.
  16. allezfred

    allezfred Master/Mistress of Sneer Staff Member

    It's because it's crap and unintentionally hilarious. :lol:
  17. Beefcake

    Beefcake Guest

    :mad: Shut up! You'll let the cat out of the bag ... and I won't be able to say "Jesus took the wheel" next time I'm caught speeding.
  18. Smiley0884

    Smiley0884 Well-Known Member


    I love that song :p Given the :scream:people on the list, I don't know why anyone is complaining about Carrie Underwood. She's got a fantastic voice, and managed to find a personality since she won Idol.
  19. duane

    duane Well-Known Member

    I think Britney Spears deserves to be in the top 5.
  20. FiveRinger

    FiveRinger Well-Known Member

    Did they give any requirements to be on the list?

    Where are Tina Turner, Gladys Knight and Diana Ross? And Aretha isn't on the list, either? All of this just came to me as I re-read the list. Unbelievable.
  21. duane

    duane Well-Known Member

    It's from 92 to the present. I remember a while back that they had The Greatest Women of Rock (I think)...Aretha was #1 and Tina was #2. Diana Ross was either in the 20's or 30's (which is baloney), but I think the Supremes were #11.
  22. Dr.Siouxs

    Dr.Siouxs Well-Known Member


    The most insulting thing about these lists is that they actually make the effort to pay sloppy lip service to legitimate artists like Kim Deal and Bjork.

    bleh, it's VH1
  23. Cyn

    Cyn Well-Known Member

    I'm not disagreeing that Miranda Lambert is talented, Wyliefan. Her mainstream success was not until 2008 (her debut album from 2005, which was strictly in the Country music market, didn't go platinum till three years later, after the release of 2008's Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. You do realize that by saying that you'd move her up on the list simply because you like her (and take Faith Hill off the list because you don't) would make it about popularity rather than on talent alone.

    FTR, I cannot stand Shania Twain *or* Faith Hill, but I do recognize that they are talented artists who had an impact on the music industry by having several crossover hits. Male Country singers had done that for years, but women? That was a rarity.

    FiveRinger summed up perfectly why Wilson-Phillips (who I despised with the fire of a thousand nuns) and Spice Girls (whose music is the stuff of my nightmares) are on the list. Besides, without Spice Girls, we wouldn't have Mrs. David Beckham to provide countless opportunities for snarkage :p.

    Carrie Underwood won American Idol in Spring 2005, but she has consistently been at the top of both the Country *and* Top 40 Music Charts since then, won a slew of Grammys (over several years), Billboard Music Awards, is a three-time CMA Vocalist of the Year Award winner, a three-time winner of the ACM (Academy of Country Music) award for Entertainer of the Year (and was the first female to win three years in a row), was inducted into the Grand Ole Opry in 2008.

    Her debut album (2006) went 7X Platinum. Her second album (2007) had four #1s on the Billboard Country Chart, and she had three consecutive #1s off her third album (2009).

    Per Wikipedia (sources included in the footnotes on her page), "With eleven number one hits on Billboard Hot Country Songs, Underwood is listed in the 2012 Guinness Book Of World Records as the Female Country Artist with Most number one Hits on such chart from 1991 to present, tied with Reba McEntire. Her album Some Hearts was named the Best Country Album of the 2000 Decade by Billboard,[11] and she's the only Female Artist to appear on the Top 10 of Billboard's Best Country Artists of the 2000 Decade list, ranked at number ten.[12] She was also ranked number 50 on the Artists of the Decade list by Billboard."

    …And that doesn't include the stats on the success of her singles :lol:.

    Pretty darned successful (and popular), I must say (even if her music gives me hives).

    Kelly Clarkson has been around since Fall of 2002, when she won American Idol (with that god-awful A Moment Like This "coronation" song, and every album she's released has been a commercial success. She also made the decision to get away from the "AI Winner" label, deliberately distancing herself from it, and she has had great success without it.

    Here's what she's done since the original Pretenders split up in 1982. Even without a major album release, Hynde did continue touring well into the late '90s, and she was a headliner at Lilith Fair (I saw her perform there in 1999, and she kicked serious ass).

    Cher's album, Love Hurts (released in 1991, but then again, this stupid countdown was done in 2011) went 14X platinum worldwide and had two hit singles -- that craptastic :yikes: "The Shoop Shoop Song (It's In His Kiss)" that was also used in the movie Mermaids, and Love and Understanding, plus a few other minor hits (in Europe, but not in the US). In 1995: The album It's A Man's World, had two hits, again in Europe, with "Walking In Memphis" and "One By One." 1998 was when she released that Auto-Tuned nightmare, Believe (the less said about that one the better, but it was her most successful album ever :scream: ). In 1999, she was part of that whole "vh1 Presents: Divas Live" concert with a whole slew of famous female singers.

    In 2002, she was nominated for two Grammys for her follow-up album to Believe and was in the "vh1: Divas in Las Vegas" televised concert. In June 2002 she announced her "Farewell Tour," one of which was televised. She received another Grammy nomination in 2004 for "Love One Another" in the Dance Music category.She then pulled a Kevin Van Der Perren by doing another concert gig - 200 performances over three years in Las Vegas.

    ….And then, of course, in 2010, there was Burlesque - how could one forget (as much as we'd like to :lol: )?

    I think you're probably right (IIRC, in some of the previous "Greatest _____ of _____" lists, people (sheeple? :p) vote on vh1's website to determine the list that artists and others in the music industry then vote from, but that doesn't explain how twunts like Miley Cyrus (and several others) ended up on the final list.

    Call me cynical, but I also think there's another factor -- the almighty dollar. I'm pretty sure that vh1 receives massive amounts of $$$ from various record labels (not in the form of payola, unless that's become legal); but there are certainly other ways money can find its way into vh1's bank accounts.
  24. Cyn

    Cyn Well-Known Member

    IKR? Why isn't L7 on the list, either?

    Oh well, at least they didn't include Four Non-Blondes (that god-awful song, What's Going On was an instant channel-changer for me when it was popular) or The Donnas (who seem to offer commentary on every freaking pop-culture show vh1 does :blah: )
  25. falling_dance

    falling_dance Coaching Patrick

    True. Perhaps I give her too many bonus points for "Fight the real enemy!" :shuffle:

    Annie Clark, formerly of the Polyphonic Spree. Actor is a wonderful album, though I see from the Wikipedia entry that it probably hasn't enjoyed much success outside of the US and UK (and only so much in the latter, anyway).
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2012
  26. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

    Well, yes and no. It's true I'm pretty much basing it on my own preferences. But I think Miranda and Shania are talented. (Faith has talent, but she picks some of the stupidest, most overrated songs I've ever heard.)

    Besides, I think we all agree that it's a pretty crappy list on the whole, so it's quite possible that basing changes on our own preferences could only improve it. ;)

    You got me started thinking (and Googling) with that one. Actually, it's not that rare. Patsy Cline, Loretta Lynn, Crystal Gayle, Dolly Parton, Reba McEntire, LeAnn Rimes, and the Dixie Chicks have all had crossover success, along with Shania, Faith, Carrie, and Taylor. The women in country music seem to have just as much crossover success as the men, or maybe even more.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2012
  27. Cachoo

    Cachoo Well-Known Member

    I think a best list from all of us would make more sense than this garbage. WHO was voting on this?
  28. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

    Hey...I'm a churchgoing Catholic. I observe Lent. I do the whole thing. I have no problem with Jesus. But let's not cheapen him by singing about letting him drive the car. And, yes, I know it is supposed to be a metaphor. But it is an exceedingly badly done metaphor.

    Also, I do not believe selling records and charting makes one talented or influential as an artist.
  29. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

    Jesus caught and cleaned fish, spat in the dirt and made clay, and cast demons into pigs. I don't think driving a car would faze Him. ;)
    shan and (deleted member) like this.
  30. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

    But his metaphors and parables were well constructed. I think we owe him the respect of keeping ones about him well told.

    That song is just maudlin and tacky. And "Before He Cheats" (thanks for the title) coming after it. Okay...let's just leap from "I want to live like Jesus is in control" to "Let's drink whiskey and vandalize property". That's the kind of message consistency you get when you can't write your own songs.

    One of my least favorite In Style profiles ever was of Carrie Underwood in which she lamented the terrible hardship and stress of having to choose which free designer clothes to wear. :rolleyes: