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US Ladies [#3]: 2011-12 news, musings & everything else

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Sylvia, Jan 11, 2012.

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  1. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka The Stolbova/Klimov and James/Cipres Uber

    Asada was 4th in 2009... she won in 2010.

    Ando was 4th in 2010... she won in 2011.

    Leonova was 4th in 2011... she won (the silver/SP) in 2012.

    Wagner was 4th in 2012...
  2. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

  3. Stephanie

    Stephanie Well-Known Member

    I believe she'll get a small medal for being third in the FS?

    I was never much of an Ashley fan before but became a big one this season because of her attitude. She's mature, takes full responsibility for herself and her actions, and isn't afraid to attack. I also like her honesty.

    Phillip Mills has quite the job ahead to top or even come close to equalling this year's long program!
  4. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

    MK was 4th at her second worlds too
  5. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

    ^ Good point. And she won it the year after.
  6. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

    I really like this pattern.

    No matter what people think of the US ladies, no one can deny that this was a breakthrough season for Ashley, who won a GP medal, was second alternate to the GPF (IMO, she should have won two GP medals, but whatever), won Nats AND 4CCs and placed 4th at Worlds. We may be in a "slump," but those are pretty nice results.
  7. NMURA

    NMURA Active Member

    I've noticed Wagner's records are very similar to Meissner in the 2006-2007 season.

    GPS - 2nd and 3rd, 2nd alternate for GPF
    US nationals - 1st
    4CC at Colorado - 1st
    Worlds - 4th

    Don't be too optimistic. What happened for Meissner in the next season? For American ladies, the 4CC title (at Colorado) could be a jinx. Do you remember Katy Taylor?
  8. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

    I thought about that, but isn't it also somewhat self-fulfilling if we treat it that way?
  9. DimaToe

    DimaToe El Chen-te Fernández

    Kimmie was 17 and still growing if im correct, her jumps were leaving her, and had been the World champion the year before, so she was going in a downward spiral if anything.

    Ashley on the other hand is already 20, her jumps and artistry has greatly improved, and will surely keep on getting better under John Nicks, and she keeps on delivering solid results, medal or not.

    To compare these two is ridiculous, Kimmie and Katy have no effect on what level of success Wagner will achieve, Ashley has the hunger that has been absent from U.S ladies in a while, so i doubt that we've seen the last of her, she means business!! :kickass:
  10. martyross

    martyross Well-Known Member

    yea both Worlds and 4cc statistics don't predict the future of a skater, unless we believe in the tarots or something. :confused: if someone places 4th and then wins the year after, it only means that he/she's improved. luckily, the world is not governed by jinxs and such :D
  11. nyskater09

    nyskater09 New Member

    I just finished watching Ashley's FS performance, and wow! I thought she did wonderfully. I was extremely impressed. Her jumps were high and powerful, and from what I saw the only two foot landing she had was the triple toe at the end of the double axel combo. She said after nationals she wanted to fix the double-footing, and she did. She is gutsy, athletic, and means what she says. I am not sure if she knew of Alissa's poor placement in the FS, but if she knew, good for her for bringing it when it counts. That's a lot of pressure. I have very high hopes for her for these next few years! Congrats Ashley!
  12. NMURA

    NMURA Active Member

    I'm not directly comparing Wagner to Meissner(Taylor). Just pointing out past patterns. After Meissner, 4CC winners won worlds 4 years in a row, but Wagner coudn't continue the trend. There could be different patters for American ladies.
  13. Theatregirl1122

    Theatregirl1122 Enjoying Vicarious Voids!

    Yeah, I think Ashley's probably through puberty, actually.
  14. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

    Can't say enough how proud I am of Ashley. She has grown so much this season, both technically and artistically. Can't wait to see what she comes up with next season. :)
  15. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    I bawled after her program was done.
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2012
  16. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Did anyone notice that Ashley's non-element moves were so refined, crisp and musical ? I'm not used to that from her - the head and hand movements, the expressions on her face, the way she stretched her legs and used her feet.

    Also, the only 2-ft. I saw was the 3t on the back end of the 2x-3t, and I initially thought the 2d 3loop was, but she got positive GOE on that jump combo, so I guess on replay it wasn't ... ?

    She also did a 3f-2t-2l instead of 3f-2t-2t, so she upped the ante there, too.
  17. centerstage01

    centerstage01 Well-Known Member

    Sometimes a good brawl is necessary to burn off that stress. I hope the other guy wasn't beat up too badly. :p:lol:
  18. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

    Yes, I think that was her only 2ft. Great improvement from her on that part of her skating!

    I think if she skated in the last group (even first in the last group), her PCS would have been a good 2-3 points higher. Ahh well. She still did the U.S. proud by fighting back and showing some true competitive spirit!
  19. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

    Similar results; totally different situations. Meissner was an Olympian and defending World champion that season. The 4th at Worlds was underwhelming, but probably the best she could do considering the entire podium had more talent + the jumps.

    For Wagner, she's trying to shake off the stigma of "almost girl". She's suffered for years at the hands of the National short program and finally overcame that this season to break through. The 4th is seen by many to be a triumph for her, but there is definitely room for further improvement. It will depend on whether she can stay healthy. It will also be interesting to see how she handles the pressure of defending National champ next year. Every new US champ since Kwan/Cohen era has suffered from the "next year curse".
  20. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

    Besides Meissner, Wagner's progress this season was similar to Czisny's from last season too: changed coaches, greatly improved jumps, wonderful long program, National Champion, one huge international win (GPF for Czisny and 4CC for Wagner) and then just missed the podium at Worlds.

    Hope I didn't jinx her further :p

    BTW I have been a Wagner fan since her Spartacus days and am glad for what she has accomplished this season. She looked like a stubborn kid and those problematic jumps were getting her nowhere. Nicks cleaned her up real nice and brought her results. If she had not moved to Nicks she might just have another decent season with top 5 finishes at the GPs and Nationals. Now she is winning 4CCs and contending for world medals. This is the long waited confidence boost and motivation she needs to further progress as a skater. Can't wait for next season.
  21. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

    Hopefully Wagner can go up from here, but don't think it's going to get any easier for her. Nationally, there will be Gracie Gold, potentially a revived Mirai Nagasu, Agnes Zawadzki among others who can capitalize on any mistakes. And internationally, of course, the young Russians will enter the fray.

    At least on the national level, Wagner is no longer chasing but will be chased. Totally different kind of pressure and we'll see if she can handle it. So far, no one has been able to do it:

    Natl Champs, results next year

    2006: Cohen, did not compete
    2007: Meissner, 7th in 08
    2008: Nagasu, 5th in 09
    2009: Czisny, 10th(?) in 2010
    2010: Flatt, 2nd in 2011
    2011: Czisny, 2nd in 2012
    2012: Wagner, ?? in 2013

    If she is unable to defend her title, at least she'll get to go to Worlds again if she hangs onto 2nd. But again, won't be easy. This will be a big test for her, actually.
  22. jl22aries

    jl22aries Active Member

    This is my first time in this particular thread. Didn't know quite where else to post the following musings so here seems about right!

    Just wanted to say I LOVE Ashley's LP this year. I think it's my favourite Ladies' Program from this season, certainly it's the one I watch the most.

    I also just finished watching Alissa's performance from World's and I was tearing, seeing her in the Kiss n' Cry. She is a lovely skater and I hope for the best for her.

    I'm a Canadian skating fan, so bear that perspective in mind. There's obviously a lot of traffic focussed on US Ladies' in the FSU forums, which for me indicates a lot of passion from the fans. I've always admired the US for their phenomenal ladies' skaters. Each of them have been unique, inspiring, and amazing in their own way. I think all the impassioned fans of US Ladies' should remember just how lucky you are in the States to have such an eclectic, at times vulnerable, hard working, and talented group of ladies to quibble about.
  23. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

    Eveyone can defend their favorites, but the basic problem right now is that the US does not have a single TRULY CONSISTENT senior ladies skater who can compete for World/Olympic medals at this time. Yes, Wagner had a good year and seems on the upswing, but she did her usual in the SP program at Worlds (namely screwing it up somehow) after she finally managed a clean short at Nationals. Not to criticize her unfairly, she had a amazing year and did very well at Worlds, but a model of consistency she is not. Alissa had a great season last year but completely decompensated this year, worse than her usual errors. Mirai cannot be counted on for good skating, period, anymore. Rachel Flatt is on the downswing if not competely out. Agnes Z does good short programs and then falls apart in the freeskate. And while Caroline Zhang appears to be on the upswing, she still has a way to go to be truly competitive with the best in the world. Similarly Gao, et al, still are inconsistent performers. And don't even start with Gracie Gold. I don't give a damn about her junior scores, her wonderful jumps, she is still a JUNIOR skater at this point; we'll have to see how she does at Senior before annointing her the next big thing. Courtney Hicks was also supposed to shine at senior this year, and let's not even go into what happened there. To quote Danny Kwan, "ice is slippery, anything can happen."

    The US just doesn't have another Michelle Kwan or skater similar to her consistency or flair, such as a Slutskaya or Yu Na Kim. In fact, skating with a full complement of jumps seems to have left the building with Yu Na Kim, period. 10 years ago, I figured we might not have ladies consistently doing triple axels, but I never thought we'd have a Ladies World Champion who could not do a consistent triple lutz (no offense meant to Carolina, she deserved every win and point this season and I have finally become a fan and learned to appreciate the beauty of her skating). It's a very different world out there right now for ladies, and the US just doesn't have the cream of the crop anymore. Maybe it will come with Wagner, or Zhang, or Gold, or maybe a resurrection for Alissa or Mirai, or someone in the backgroung we don't know about yet. But I think it will take a while, and I'm prepared to have only 2 ladies qualify for Sochi and for no World or Olympic medals for a while yet. I hope not, I hope someone steps it up, but I can't predict who would be likely at this point. :( I can't even predict who might be the next World or Olympic champion period, the ladies are all young and untested or very inconsistent. This just isn't a cycle like any we've ever seen. It's a total crapshoot to predict who our next OGM in ladies might be.
  24. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

    Yazmeen--what are you doing? Being rational about it all? You can't do that! Stop it now!! Commence handwringing and moaning and pouting and declaring what a personal affront the lack of consistent U.S. ladies skaters is to you!!!

    Get with the program!!! For if we do not have three ladies skaters in Sochi, we shall all die!
    Yazmeen and (deleted member) like this.
  25. BmcC102

    BmcC102 Active Member

    Thanks for reminding us of this. You made my day! :)
  26. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member


    Thanks for some much needed levity in this whole situation!
  27. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

    Very interesting comments from Mirai. I sounds to me like her training environment with Frank was not really what she needed.

    "I think the past couple of years, I've just put all of myself into skating, and this year I'd like to try to balance everything," she said. "Skating will always be my No. 1 priority, but it's nice for me to have something else to think about. It does upset me that I'm not at worlds, and it does upset me that I didn't do as well as I could have at nationals, but it's something to motivate me for next year."

    She definitely says nothing negative about Frank, but I think the all intensive, totally focused, all the time style that worked well for Evan and Michelle, doesn't work for Mirai. I'm glad she is enjoying her art classes at college. Hopefully she will find what works for her and what makes her happy.

    "I haven't been traveling to Palm Springs because I'm not training my programs," she said, "So I'm skating at my local rink and just enjoying myself. Being in the real world makes me see how much I love the skating world. It's nice to have a balance of school and skating. I can appreciate how much work goes into both."
  28. Lacey

    Lacey Well-Known Member

    Great idea for Mirai, and perhaps Ashley should try something outside of skating, I think she's already done college--but something else, then they will both have some identity outside of skating.

    Wonder if Mirai will hang in there with Frank.
  29. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

    Ashley? Done college? Should do something outside of skating?
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