1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi all! No longer will threads be closed after 1000 (ish) messages. We may close if one gets so long to cause an issue and if you would like a thread closed to start a new one after a 1000 posts then just use the "Report Post" function. Enjoy!

Update on Rachael Flatt

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by maureenfarone, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. Nomad

    Nomad Celebrity cheese-monger

    I wasn't asuming that at all. I was going strictly by this season's scores in senior comps. My hope that she scores over 150 (be it 155, 160, 165, whatever) allows for the possibility that she can in fact add more difficulty to her programs by Nationals.
  2. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

    Rachel's score at Sectionals was her highest all season. Her score at Regionals was higher than her Coup de Nice score (which was her lowest all season). She did not do "only doubles" at either event and did a 3Z+2T in her long at Sectionals IIRC.

    This idea that she's doing the bare minimum to qualify is nice but isn't really born out by the evidence. On top of that, the gals who are a threat for the podium are posting scores in the 170-195 range and have been all season, not the 130-148 range.

    Personally I think it does skaters we are a fan of a disservice to act like they are going to come to Nationals and suddenly post scores dramatically higher than they have been. It risks a situation where, if they do have the skate of their lives and place respectively, it will be seen as failure because they didn't pull off the impossible their supposed fans were predicting for them instead of the amazing feat that it actually was.

    P.S. to Nomad… it wasn't really criteria. I was just thinking out loud :D Anyway, I had her as high as 15th in the 'everyone skates their worst' list so that's good, right? I mean if you're a Flatt fan. The reason I think she can do better is that she has more experience than a lot of the gals who have been ahead of her all Fall and also she has a history of doing well at Nationals while some of them have a history of not putting their best performance out at that comp.
  3. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

    You recall incorrectly.
  4. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado

    She's got finals at Stanford this month and I don't think she is taking basket weaving classes. Translation: Rachael is pre-med and is supposedly taking science courses with labs which are nothing to sneeze at anywhere, let alone Stanford. Translation: how much time is she going to have for the drastic changes? I am guessing not much.
  5. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

    Why is Rachael rehabbing her back? Did she have a specific injury, or just a nagging soreness. Didn't she have a major back problem at some point?

    I hope she doesn't try to skate injured.
  6. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

    Not to mention that 4th place anywhere is nothing to sneeze it. It's still a great accomplishment, especially at the elite level.
  7. Spiralgraph

    Spiralgraph Well-Known Member

    Yes she did have an injury in her back some years ago. Another poster can give details on what it was, I can't remember. :( When she was a novice, she had a spectacular layback, but since her injury her flexibility is very limited. Her back problems seem to flare up once in a while.
  8. Nomad

    Nomad Celebrity cheese-monger

    It seemed as good a way as any to play with the numbers. Maybe she'll stay in the 130-148 range next month, maybe not. I don't know the extent of her back problems or how much training time she'll have. I'm not really expecting her to post a significantly higher score next month, but it would be nice to see her land five triples in the LP and finish higher than my numbers game predicted.
  9. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

    Rachael has bulging discs in her back. I've had this problem from time to time and it can be quite painful.
  10. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

    Found a photo on Flatt's FB page, composite photo she posted on Nov 13th...lower right hand corner...Flatt's layback from Novice season (2004/2005):

    Her back was parallel to the ice in her layback.

    IIRC, she injured her back at the start of the 06/07 season, and missed her JGP season, but did go thru the qualifying events (reg/sec at the Sr level in the US) and finished 5th at her first year at the US Championship level. And, from some of the interviews over the years, I belive Flatt has 3 discs that are bulging. The daily grind of training....ouch!!!!!

    Hard to see these kids deal with chronic/long term injury issues. :-(
  11. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

    ^^^ thanks for the information. Gorgeous picture of Rachael's layback.
  12. giselle23

    giselle23 Well-Known Member

    I saw her Regionals LP and she did a lot of doubles. Alissa did the same thing at her early competition, as I recall. Rachael won't do that at Nationals unless she makes a mistake. And in my opinion, no one is hurt or done a disservice if a skater does better at Nationals than at Regionals. Few fans even watch the qualifying rounds or know how skaters do in them. A great skate is a great skate, no matter what came before.

  13. RockTheTassel

    RockTheTassel Well-Known Member

    I think MacMadame was talking about fans expecting a skater to bring all of these dramatic improvements to nationals and then being disappointed when they don't. And on the flip side, no one should completely dismiss a skater based on a past performance or slow start to the season. It's all about having realistic (but not negative) expectations.
  14. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Wagner and Gold will probably be 1-2 at Nationals

    The fight for that last spot to Sochi will be between Nagasu, Gao and Hicks. Zawadzki will be in contention after the SP but fold in the LP.
  15. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado

    So I kind of have a crazy hope that Mirai gets the 3rd spot. Since no one else seems to want it...
  16. giselle23

    giselle23 Well-Known Member

    That's not how I read it, but I'll admit I had trouble understanding the point.
  17. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

    You are right. It was Regionals that Flatt did the 3Z+2T. And also Coupe de Nice. As Sylvia says:

    Which begs the question: if she was doing the minimum at Regionals and Sectionals to get by, why do 3z+2T at Regionals? It was completely unnecessary there. The fact that she did it at Regionals and then soon after at Coupe de Nice suggests the opposite -- that she is going for all her content every time and landing it as often as she can.

    Oh and at Sectionals she did 4 triples, 2 in combination, including a 3Lo+2T. Again, doesn't really support the "do the bare minimum to get by" strategy.

    And good for her! IMO, this is her best strategy because of missing 2012 due to injury and not being on the GP this Fall. She needs the practice going for things in a pressure situation before the big show. Doing the bare minimum to get by wouldn't give her that experience. Not to mention, this is not a strategy that skaters regularly employ as it does not help them in the long run. This is a strategy you use in extraordinary circumstances, such as skating through a major injury where qualifying at all is in serious jeopardy.
  18. Jot the Dot Dot

    Jot the Dot Dot Headstrong Buzzard

  19. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado

    Thank you. The headline says: Stanford's Rachael Flatt Ready for an Olympic Repeat

    However, Rachael herself does not mention the Olympics.
  20. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

    I think Rachael has only skated bare bone programs so far, so her low scores are understandable. I think many are underestimating where she is at now. Look forward to seeing her skate and would like to see her do well after all she is putting herself through to do that.
  21. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    I didn't suggest that you insulted anybody. I know you didn't. I said that your posts sounded angry even though MacMadame's posts weren't confrontational or aggressive, they simply expressed a different opinion. In telling her that she's angry, you're projecting your own issues at another poster.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2013
  22. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

    Good God. Are you actually drudging up a post from last month for a second time? What next a debate between Henie and Cooledge at the 1936 Olympics.My quote you referred to was sarcasm, as those there very things MacMadame did to me for the sole sake of my disagreeing with her Rachael Flatt assessment, I was called stupid, condescendingly told what I was thinking, and even called an idiot in a PM. Again - all because I simply disagree with her. Strangely enough I'm no longer bothered by this exchange since it happened nearly a month ago but I'll just call you Archaeologist Ziggy and carry on my way every time you want to dig up a useless fossil that is well-past its expiration date.
  23. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

    I would not be surprised if Rachael went out and did two relatively clean programs at nationals. She has the experience and she has no pressure to perform well. People always underestimated her when she did the Grand Prix series but she would always pull it together by nationals to place top 2.

    The problem is even if she were to skate to clean programs, the American judges HATE her and will never give her the PCS or GOE that she deserves.
  24. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

    I love people with a strong sense of irony. :)
  25. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

    She doesn't deserve high PCS or especially GOE with how she is skating now. She's even slower then before and has never had great skating skills. Only thing i wish is if we could do is take her competitive spirit and install it into some of the other US Ladies who seem to be almost afraid to compete or win.
  26. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

    I think Rachael will skate fine at nationals but I agree with Jammers. I watched her at sectionals and Rachael was very slow and labored looking. She's nothing like she was this time 4 years ago...and that's fine. I honestly doubt Rachael is delusional enough to think she could get one of those spots to Sochi. She's going to nationals to soak up the atmosphere and have a little fun. B/c she'll be able to skate pretty much pressure free, I expect her to skate well but I don't expect her to place top 5...I'd be surprised if she placed top 10.

    Rachael is skating for enjoyment now. I think that's pretty obvious at this point and for that reason, I don't think her placement matters much. She's just there to enjoy the experience. The fans will be very supportive of her and cheer her on no matter what. :)
  27. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    I was trying to follow the jump debate and was not able to see the point, since both theories result in a well-off-the-podium result. To summarize, Rachel did 3 lutzes in her fall events, but is now suffering back problems. She turned in an element list at sectionals that included flip combos and solo lutz but attempted none of them, opting for the 3 easier triples. Some folks see this as her likely Nationals list, others argue she will be adding back the lutz and flips for Nationals. Given that Rachel was never a powerful skater and is even slower now, given that she never fared very well in PCS and is getting worse marks now, I don't see any real difference between 3 loops or 3 flips + one solo lutz in terms of her potential placement at Nationals.

    As bright as Rachel is, I think, like kwanatic, that Rachel knows this. IMO she is going for one last experience at Nationals to say goodbye to her competitive career.
  28. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

    I think Rachael was initially hoping/wishing for much more than a fun experience at U.S. Nationals. But, like so many skaters, she put her heart and soul into doing her best, and her body refused to cooperate. I hope she truly enjoys her experience, skates well, and can feel proud putting her competitive career to rest on a high note.

  29. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

    I have this same crazy hope. :D

    Back OT I think Rachael will try and put forth two good skates at Nationals and be very pleased wherevery she ends up.
  30. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

    Flatt stated in her most recent interviews that she was dealing with reoccurring back issues during regionals and sectionals, but had also spent the last month or so doing PT to rehab her back, and hence, the watered down programs this autumn. She is finished with finals at Stanford and has almost a month before Boston, and is back training in Colorado Springs according
    to skaters who train at the Ice Hall.