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U.S. Pairs 2014 - News and Updates, Part III

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Jan 18, 2014.

  1. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    I would think USFS is freaking out (assuming they care enough about their pairs program to bother)... Both pairs of their Olympic team have split, their most recent bronze medalists are side lined due to injury. 3 more of last year's top 10 (if I'm counting right) have split.

    I'm not seeing bright future. I am seeing major need for rebuilding.
    The future is bright for S/K, D/F, K/O though- they are on the top of that rebuilding; but I'm not sure they are quite the bright future USFS wishes they had.
  2. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    ^^ Ha ha, figure of speech, Skittles. Yet there is a lot of potential brightness and depth still on the horizon for U.S. pairs. For all we know, USFS has been nudging and making suggestions re some of these splits/ new pairings. I don't think we really know what USFS "wishes they had." In any case, USFS is not a singular entity. :lol:

    Who knows what's going to happen next globally let alone domestically, aside from the prescient crystal-ballers among us. ;)
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2014
  3. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    icenetwork retweeted two tweets about Castelli/Tran and Tran from Amy Rosewater:

    If @skate_moivo does not compete int'lly for Canada in one-year period he can apply to be released​

    Update from @SkateCanada re: @skate_moivo & @MarissaCastelli. They can compete domestically for #TeamUSA this yr.​

    It's not clear whether if Tran asks for a release after not competing for Canada for a year -- one year from 2014 4C's Pairs FS -- it will be granted.
  4. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

    Fans will always have their soapboxes, but in this particular case their lack of coverage and speed was an actual issue, not a "D/W haven't improved in the past 4 years" hyperbole statement. It's part of the reason why their SS and PCS in general weren't that great internationally. Maybe they felt skating with different partners would allow them to improve on that? Either way, best of luck to both in the future. They seemed like nice, hard working people and it was nice to se them attack their FS the way they did at Nationals.
    Sylvia and (deleted member) like this.
  5. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Well-Known Member

    Zhang/Bartholomay have not been my favorite U.S. pair, so I'm probably not as upset about this as some people. At the same time, however, it's kind of hard to imagine either of them being MORE successful with another partner, because they seemed well matched, just somewhat limited in their ultimate potential. So in that sense, it's a bummer. I like Nate and all, but I just don't see him with Gretchen, and is Daniel Raad really a potential world team member??
  6. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    I don't think any pair is so mentally fragile as to quit just because a group of fans critique their skating.

    ETA - happy to know my 2 favorite pairs right now, S/K and K/O are fine.
  7. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

    Lol, I'm sorry but I have to laugh. :lol: Seriously, I honestly didn't think there were any more pairs left to split, particularly here in the States. It's become ridiculous. :p

    On a serious note, as with the rest of the splits these past few months, I am sorry to see another good team part. :( Truly a shame. They had momentum on their side. Only together a year or two and already Olympians, that's remarkable, despite the naysayers saying Denney/Coughlin & Scimeca/Knierim were shoo-ins. Yet it truly is anybody's game.

    On that note, I hope Madeline Aaron/Max Settlage and Britney Simpson/Matthew Penasse take this opportunity and run with it! :cool:
  8. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

    Was it known that C&T would compete for the US? This is the first I'm hearing it.

    Wow, that would be huge for American pairs skating.
  9. Sylvia

    Sylvia Still recovering from Worlds...

    Yes - see article here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?92491-Castelli-and-Tran-official

    Quoting Skate Canada's Michael Slipchuk from the Beverley Smith article excerpted at: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...liushechkina&p=4289321&viewfull=1#post4289321
  10. BittyBug

    BittyBug Living in a Kleptocracy

    Marissa has been quoted in several places saying something along the lines of being 100% American. Not an official announcement, but a declaration that makes this reveal rather unsurprising.
  11. rfisher

    rfisher Will you rise like a phoenix or be a burnt chicken

    Which reveals a real Catch-22 situation for Slpchuk. :lol: That comment is made in reference to the release of Iliushenchkina by Russia to Canada which he wants vs. the release of Tran by Canada to the US which he likely does not.
  12. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Hmmm, yeah ioana, but I prefer to focus on what Z/B did extremely well: their attack, consistency, and "verve" as respectfully expressed by BittyBug. :)

    Okay, surely if you say so then. ;) Goodie for your favorites being fine. Surely they will be fired up to do well, and I hope it shapes up to be an exciting new season. In general right now, I favorite all the new and continuing pairs and wish them well.
  13. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

    How anyone chooses to remember skaters is entirely up to them and everyone likes different aspects of skating. Doesn't change potential reasons for a split or prevent speculation on it. 'Mean fan comments' is yet to be a factor for retirements or splits -from any skater I know. That said if you do think a Z/B appreciation thread is in order, however, feel free to start one.
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  14. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

    So who is Davidovich skating with?
  15. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

    I'm sure they don't quit because fans said something critical.

    If the criticisms are accurate, the skaters themselves, their coaches, and officials who offer them advice may say the same thing, and those skating limitations might be the primary reason for a breakup.

    But it would be the actual limitations, not the fact that fans (or anyone else) pointed them out, that would be the reason.
  16. 2sk8

    2sk8 Active Member

  17. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

    Seriously, who would be left?

    I like S/K and K/O as well. Also, hoping that Max and Maddie can take a step forward...
  18. lauren329

    lauren329 Active Member

    USFS sent them to Sochi primarily because they finished top 2 in Boston, not because of some future investment. Sure it would have been great if they had built on that over the next 2 or 4 years but I don't think that takes away that what they did in Boston at the Olympic season Nationals earned them a spot on the Olympic team.

    I really hope that if something good can come from this latest split, Kayne & O'Shea benefit from being Jim Peterson's primary priority. There's something exciting about them and she has an almost regal sassiness on the ice. Plus, their personalities on Twitter make me root for them even more.

    Also hoping that Max and Maddie will get that TBA spot (which I think is almost a given) and maybe another spot too now.
  19. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

    Z/B WERE sent to the Olympics because they finished second in Boston...USFS wasn't about to upset the apple cart a second time after selecting Ashley over Mirai.

    Pairs are the red-headed step child of USFS...
  20. Carolla5501

    Carolla5501 Well-Known Member

    I always remember one of the reasons Naomi Lang quit the first time was that she was depressed by the constant fan critics saying she wasn't as good as her partner deserved... :( Sometimes I don't think we realize our bad our thoughtless and mostly ill-informed statements hurt
  21. mtnskater

    mtnskater Well-Known Member

    I would think another one of the reasons USFS decided to let the placements at Nationals stand for pairs Olympic team selection, despite D&C winning the free skate and being within a tiny overall margin of placement (201.72 v. 201.43 total points) and better international track record was the promise Z&B held as an up and coming developing team. Now that they have split and D&C are still together I still find myself wishing they had gotten the Olympic opportunity that is all I am saying. As usual, loads of posters may disagree...that's fine.
  22. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

    I really think the USFS would have gone with D/C had it not been for Ashley finishing 4th. They weren't going to deal with media scrutiny of going against two results.

    I will fall over if D/C return to competition together. I think this "year off" is a nice way of keeping their options open to appear together in (paid) shows. There were many rumors out of Colorado this spring that Caydee was looking for a new partner and only decided to stick with John and do shows after she didn't find someone. John is almost 30.
  23. peibeck

    peibeck Simply looking

    Well maybe Caydee will go back to Florida if things don't work out with Gretchen and Nathan's tryout.
  24. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

    I always felt the same. The USFSA was willing to make one controversial decision, but that was it. Wagner got priority, but I think Aaron would have been the next in line over D&C. D&C probably needed both the mens and ladies events go according to plan (Gold,Wagner,Aaron making the team) for them to get bumped ahead of Z&B.
  25. yfbg722

    yfbg722 Active Member

    As the parent of a former pair girl, I can tell you that it isn't always easy to read the criticism - and believe me the skaters and their parents ARE reading - but if the post came from a poster we respected the feedback was considered and acted upon. I think most skaters know they're not perfect, and that skating is subjective. The smart ones use the feedback to make themselves better.
    gkelly and (deleted member) like this.
  26. kittyjake5

    kittyjake5 Well-Known Member

    Darn another pair split. I was just warming up to this young couple.

    Best wishes to them both!
  27. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Interesting points of view from various posters. Thanks for your thoughts yfbg722, as the parent of a former pair skater.

    IMO, our individual likes and dislikes obviously color our opinions about skaters. We all have our favorites. Being critical and often blunt is something a lot of people do especially in regard to sports. Certainly all fans have the right to voice their opinions, but I think sometimes the tendency to be petty and dismissive is unnecessary and unkind. Or, to constantly harp on what you see as a skater's weakness, or to claim they will never be able to succeed (as someone recently did in this thread in reference to a current skater U.S. skater who is now seeking a partner).

    I'm not sure we know what specifically led to Z/B splitting, but surely some of the dismissive comments that have been bandied about here showed a distinct lack of support for their pairing among some fans. Obviously, they each may have felt they had achieved a great goal together making the Olympics and that with the current state of so many splits happening, they might well try to see if they could improve their competitiveness with new partners in the changed U.S. pairs landscape. And who knows whether or not the suggestion to part ways came from U.S. fed. It's all speculation in any case, in the absence of any official statements.

    Okay ioana, you can continue with your dismissive tone toward Z/B. As I already indicated in a previous post, Z/B were never a favorite pair of mine but over the last couple of seasons I began to appreciate their engaging qualities together as a team, and I have enjoyed watching them. And I think it is a shame to throw darts at what they were able to accomplish together. FYI-- I don't think my feelings for Z/B and fondness for their wonderful skate at U.S. Nationals deserves a separate appreciation thread (as I've already given tribute to them in this thread), but you can start a dismissive dis-appreciation thread for them or any other skaters if you like.

    There are some skaters whose skating I am not fond of, and I will point out why and/or critique the judging more often. But I also try to give credit to skaters for what they do well, even if I don't root for them all the time.

    USFS strictly sticking to the placement results all those years and then suddenly deciding to change in an Olympic year has definitely opened up a can of worms. Before, the judging (sometimes controversial) always decided who they actually wanted to make the World and Olympic teams.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
  28. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

    I totally agree with you. Maybe I didn't phrase myself clearly. And, trust me, I wanted John Coughlin to make that Olympic team. He is one of my favorite people in the sport.
  29. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

    I agree, but if I were the USFS I would have sent the team who have skated to the higher spot and D/C certainly would have done better than 12th. I would have kept Z/B home until they did prove themselves on the world stage and they just hadn't done it yet. I guess they'll always have Nationals.

    I don't understand why D/C are not skating, not sure if buy the injury. I can see skipping the Grand Prix this season but being off competitive ice for over a year and a half is strange.
  30. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Well, kwanette and mtnskater, I also have enjoyed watching Denney/ Coughlin, and seeing their notable international success. I especially appreciate their strong technical consistency. Unfortunately, I don't think they have been able to yet find a way to reach another level as a team. I'd hoped to see them develop their own unique power and personality on the ice, but they hadn't yet found that (having been steered in a stylistic direction that to me doesn't necessarily suit them or enhance their strengths). Also unfortunately, injuries have been a direct cause of their inability to do as well as expected recently (especially since their opportunities to compete have been curtailed because of recovering from injuries). As we all know, D/C have also been negatively critiqued by some fans, often in a petty fashion. There are areas in which they could improve, but I appreciate their strengths. I wish the best for Caydee and John, and I was sorry events led to them missing out on making the Olympic team. Their future plans seem indecisive at the moment. ITA that John Coughlin is an outstanding person. I'm sure he will continue to contribute a great deal to the sport of figure skating.

    I agree and have already indicated that it seems USFS hedged their bets by sending Z/B to the Olympics because they finished second at Nationals, while sending D/C to Worlds because of their stronger competitive credentials internationally. I already stated I also feel that because of the drama of the ladies' Olympic team selection at Nationals, USFS probably did not wish to override the on-ice pairs results. As far as the men's results, Jason Brown earned his spot and as a bonafide talented star and crowd pleaser, USFS had no choice there. Still, they had options for Worlds selection and thus rewarded Max Aaron. If D/C had been at full strength at Nationals, it is entirely possible they could have won and unseated C/S, or at the very least come in second and made the Olympic team as anticipated. Z/B made their case by being perfect in both programs.

    What I disagreed with in your earlier comments, mtnskater, is the idea that Z/B were being rewarded for being an up-and-coming team and that USFS was thus "investing" in them for the future, and thus since they subsequently split, USFS' decision didn't "pay-off" and that D/C should have been "invested" in instead for the Olympics. To me that doesn't compute for many reasons. If that was the case, you could say the same about Castelli/ Shnapir who have also split. Apparently and according to many posters, Z/B skills as a team are lightly regarded. Sure they had areas where they needed much improvement in order to be a strong competitive factor internationally, but obviously their spark, hard work and consistency paid off and if nothing else, they should be respected for what they accomplished together. Sometimes teams with greater talent never achieve their potential.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014