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U.S. Men 2012-13 pre-season news & updates

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 13, 2012.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia Still recovering from Worlds...

    Summary of the 2012 Broadmoor Open Senior Jumps event in the Kiss and Cry forum: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3603328&postcount=119
  2. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Thanks Sylvia. Great article and very eye-opening re the reasons why mastering a quad is so difficult. I especially love Carriere's explanations re the necessity to be in perfect position, as well as relaxed, which he said is contrary to mastering triples which can be "attacked" unlike the quad. This article very much supports the fact that the quad takes so much mental energy, not to mention physical energy, athleticism and technical precision. It's just an extra revolution but it requires Zen-like concentration apparently, not to mention belief and hours of training. Yet, the skaters obviously must not train it too hard either.

    Strikes me that the quad in skating is still very much in its infancy, even after all these years. Too bad fs powers did not realize they needed to get ahead of the game by studying and understanding more about the physics and demanding physical and mental requirements of the quad. As a result of no one realizing from the beginning how different the demands are, the injury quotient was ratcheted up for skaters performing this jump. Elvis and Plush and Joubert and Yagudin, and even Dai have already paid the price. Not to mention how Sasha Abt's career was impacted by injuries. Ilia was lucky perhaps to have won gold when he did and then retire from eligible skating.

    Also intriguing are the explanations in the article re why it is hard to master quad salchow vs quad toe. Looks like the levels of difficulty for each jump variation hold true for that extra revolution too. For example: quad toe was the first landed; then quad salchow; then lutz -- although are lutz and flip considered equal in terms of difficulty or is the lutz supposed to be more difficult? -- In any case the quad lutz was landed in the same season that a quad flip was attempted. A quad loop has never been landed in competition, perhaps because the entry on this edge jump is so difficult and likely doesn't lend itself to attaining great height.

    I will never be sold on quads, but I'm glad to see that the U.S. men are tackling them now in training more strategically and with positive determination and better insights.
  3. pinky166

    pinky166 #teamtrainwreck #teamdiva

    Well there's Farris as well who apparently has been landing quad toes for around 2 years or so, or at least as early as Nationals 2011 because IIRC, that's how he initially got injured there, he landed a quad toe in warmup, then tried another and fell hard which hurt his hip. Where he's staying on the JGP again I wouldn't be surprised to see him try it in competition this season just where the atmosphere and pressure won't be as intense as it would be at senior GP events. Also, Brown is at least trying the 3a in competition now, though it appears he's still struggling to land it cleanly, but I mean, he could potentially be training a quad now, or start doing so in the near future and sometimes the good quad jumpers are not always though who have the easiest time with or best 3a (Chan, Lambiel, anyone?) so who knows.

    Armin has tried the 4t in a lot of competitions and it seems like it's usually under-rotated. Ricky's quad is actually pretty stable, he landed it in both his GP events and got credit for full rotation, and those were the first two competitions he'd tried it in, so that was pretty impressive. If he can get his consistency on his other jumps back, having that quad will be a big benefit going into nationals.
  4. Theatregirl1122

    Theatregirl1122 Enjoying Vicarious Voids!

    I'm confused by what you mean by this. Mroz certainly wasn't consistent with the quad lutz last year but he did stick it in the program and landed it more than once in competition.
  5. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec Member

    Yeh just not when it would have counted most to him....
  6. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec Member

    Damn and I had a bet going that Brown would end up with a Quad before he got the 3A :p
  7. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

    Armin has a really nice 4T when he lands it clean.
  8. misskarne

    misskarne #AustraliaForTheTeamEvent

    Not a smart bet since Jason has said in interviews before that they won't start the quad until after he lands the 3A...;)
  9. pinky166

    pinky166 #teamtrainwreck #teamdiva

    If the 3a continues to be an issue though, they could abort that plan...
  10. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member


    Hmmm... Timmy had the most relaxed and casual quads I can remember -- but I certainly don't remember perfect positioning, and Elvis seemed to muscle them a lot more. Yagudin seemed more in the middle. Sandhu's were some of the most gorgeous when he landed the. These were all guys I saw in person landing quads multiple times, though they were all pre or early COP skaters who were raised in an era when landing the jump without falling was the priority. (I wonder what Elvis and Yagudin think about "fully rotated falls"?)

    I think Stephen may be psyching himself out by investing in this notion of everything needing to be perfect to land a quad.
  11. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    ^^ Cool :cool: I don't read Carriere's comments the same way. Certainly though, the quad in and of itself probably psychs out quite a few skaters -- those men who have them, and those who are trying to get them consistently into their arsenal. As to the topic of "perfect positioning," everyone likely experiences the process differently. I doubt just by looking that any of us fans can determine what it feels like and what or what is not required to master a quad -- unless of course some of us are out there on the ice training quads. ;)

    In any case, it's fascinating to hear these guys dishing on the quad conundrum. Not quite as fascinating to watch so many struggling with that extra revolution in competition. Fernandez and Hanyu have some gorgeous quads, but I'm more interested in seeing balanced, beautiful and clean programs, with or without quads.
  12. ryanbfan

    ryanbfan Active Member

  13. maureenfarone

    maureenfarone Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the link. I'm disappointed Keegan isn't doing Skate Detroit this year. Would like to see the 4T/3T in person!
  14. pinky166

    pinky166 #teamtrainwreck #teamdiva

    Well that was fabulous! Keegan is such a great talent, it's really a shame he has the tendency to tank in competitions, if he could consistently deliver what he's capable of he'd certainly be in the mix to make World and Olympic teams...
  15. ryanbfan

    ryanbfan Active Member

    You're not the only one! A lot of people have been asking about it, I would've liked for him to do it for experience but I trust Keegan's coaches and mom. He's also planning on having his costumes for the season by Liberty, so it's a shame he won't get to parade them around a lot in the off season because they are SO awesome this season (I got to see the drawings)!

    He is still young though, he turns 20 in January. I think he'll figure it out :)
    Mayra and (deleted member) like this.
  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Keegan is a really strong jumper. :)

    I've always found something really irresistible about his skating.

    It's strange because he's an athletic skater, doesn't have very complex choreography or subtle musicality (which is what I usually prefer) but there's something very powerful and free about his skating. A Stojko kind of vibe. :cool:

    And his jumps rock.

    HOBBIT FOR PRESIDENT! :mitchell:
  17. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    ^Dear All,

    It bears my repeating, and I hate to be a killjoy, but don't get excited about US men doing Quads until you see them consistently in competition. Otherwise, you're in for a world of disappointment ;)
  18. ryanbfan

    ryanbfan Active Member

    Last edited: Jul 2, 2012
  19. Mayra

    Mayra Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the video!

    Here's hoping for a great 2012-2013 season for Keegan. :cheer:
  20. carriemarie

    carriemarie Active Member

    SOOOO TRUE! With an almost clocklike regularity I look forward to the flourish of announcements in Icenetwork that "so and so" is trying quads at US "CHAMPS CAMP" and how they are in the program for the season. Well one can hope I suppose...:shuffle:
  21. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

  22. Sylvia

    Sylvia Still recovering from Worlds...

    The Senior Men's event at the Glacier Falls Summer Classic (Aug. 3-5 in Anaheim, Calif.) will include the 4th-15th place finishers in Senior men at 2012 US Nationals -- Mahbanoozadeh, Razzano, Carriere, Messing, Aaron, Brown, Dyer, Cassar, Hochstein, Dornbush, Mroz, Alex Johnson -- plus Philip Warren (Jr. bronze medalist), Emmanuel Savary, Sean Rabbitt, Andrew Gonzales, Canadians Jeremy Ten and junior champ Mitchell Gordon, and Chris Caluza (PHI).

    Junior Men at Glacier Falls include the following International Selection Pool (ISP) skaters -- Nathan Chen, Lukas Kaugars, Jay Yostanto, Spencer Howe, Shotaro Omori -- plus Vincent Zhou and Jordan Moeller.

    Dornbush, Hochstein, Warren, and Rabbitt are scheduled to start their season at Los Angeles Open in mid-July.
  23. icellist

    icellist Active Member

    Just wondering, Sylvia, how do you find out the entries for club competitions? I've trying to find out for liberty and glacier for a couple of weeks now. Do you know which lady entries are at glaciers?
  24. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

    That's an incredible senior men's field. It's like a mini Nationals. I would love a live webcast ;)
  25. pinky166

    pinky166 #teamtrainwreck #teamdiva

    Does anyone know is Josh Farris is injured? He's not on the list for any summer competitions AFAIK, and where he's not competing on the GP, this seems worrisome/odd as the JGP season starts in August and summer competition performance usually plays a significant role in those assignments..

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

    Sylvia, Dornbush is still listed as having filed entry papers at Glacier Falls? Of course, many a registered skater has failed to show up in the past.

    If you have lots of time, and a knowledge of the coaches names of skaters you are interested in, you can go to the website, click on the coaches button, and check coach by coach, for what skaters they have who have filed paperwork.

    Courtney Hicks will be at Glacier Falls.

    Gracie Gold will not.
  27. feraina

    feraina Well-Known Member

    Indeed, that is an amazing lineup! Too bad I will have to miss it this year. :(
  28. Sylvia

    Sylvia Still recovering from Worlds...

    I've started competition threads for both Liberty and Glacier Falls in the 2012-13 Kiss and Cry forum, but if you don't have access (an FSU paid subscription or season pass is required now), I've posted some of the notable Glacier Falls Senior and Junior ladies entries in the U.S. Ladies thread in the Trash Can: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3613272#post3613272

    I think you're worrying needlessly. AFAIK, neither Farris nor Jason Brown need to compete in a summer competition in order to be assigned to a JGP -- they just have to let USFS know where they will fulfil their "competition readiness" requirements and it doesn't have to be at one of the major summer competitions.

    Currently Tammy Gambill is listed as coaching or co-coaching 6(!) men at Glacier Falls -- Dornbush, Philip Warren (also still working with John Nicks), Sean Rabbitt, Emmanuel Savary (I'm told he is still working with Frank Carroll), Shotaro Omori, and Vincent Zhou.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2012
  29. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    Adam Rippon tweeted:

    Starting my short program this week. Time to get to work!​
  30. Visaliakid

    Visaliakid Well-Known Member

    In accordance with the 2012 - 2013 ISU Grand Prix Announcement, Evan Lysacek has until August 1st to agree to terms with U.S. Figure Skating for his return to compete on the Grand Prix @ 2012 Skate America.

    Come on USFS - get our Olympic Champ back in the mix for Sochi. Plushenko is back, time to resolve whatever overcooked differences you have with Evan. GET IT DONE!