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U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia Prepping for club comp. season!

    For score buffs...

    ISU Personal Best Total Scores - U.S. Ladies in the current top 50: http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/pbslto.htm
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  2. TwizzlerS

    TwizzlerS Well-Known Member

    No, but her score is the highest for this year.
  3. Sylvia

    Sylvia Prepping for club comp. season!

    Jean-Christophe Berlot spoke with Ashley before her free skate at TEB: Bringing the drama: Wagner in a class of her own
  4. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

    Ashley's spins looked strong to me in France. I do not understand the loss of levels on the FSSp and LSp. To me, they seemed like clear level fours. The combination spin at the end was rushed..she didn't hold the forward camel variation long enough so I can see the loss of the level there, The caller at this competition was pretty tough.
  5. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

    Samson and Delilah is one of my favorite pieces. There is such raw sexuality and exhibitionism in it. Maybe Ashley doesn't capture that, but the final footwork sequence shows she or her choreographer knows what it is all about. For a couple of years Vladimir Kotin ended his programs with S and D. And he skated with D and A. Very very sexy. I guess since Ashley is a Nicks student she wouldn't go all out, but she's doing almost enough, I just wish she had more UUMPH in that final step sequence. The crowd is applauding, give them more.

    My first skate crush was Vladimir Kotin. Please don't tell me he is a vodka drinking lush. He was so sexy back in the 80s. But I guess so was I...
  6. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

    If there's one remaining weakness, though, it's definitely her spins. Not that she has bad spins--at all--but she could have more consistent spins. She should not wind up in a time crunch and miss levels because she misses half a rotation (obviously, a variety of factors were at play).
  7. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD Active Member

    Someone noted that she already used the (8?) revolution feature in her FSSp and it can only be used once, so she lost a level on the LSp. I don't think she has enough features on her FSSp, as a lot of people who are doing FSSp are doing what she does (death drop, two difficult variations) but with a flying change between the change of positions.
  8. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

    No. Sorry. Not gonna happen. I would love to see Alissa there, but you've got to be realistic. How many skaters show up only for nationals, after surgery, and do just awesome? It's hard enough when you are healthy. Evan, Johnny, Sasha, Michelle, ALL had problems with this.

    I predicted months ago that she would not be ready for NHK because recovery from this surgery is hellacious. Lipinski claims to have been doing triples within two weeks. She's either superhuman or full of it. For the mere mortals, it's not possible.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
  9. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

    A lot of it with Alissa is mental, too, moreso than a lot of other skaters. She may have just as hard a time recovering from this surgery physically as she does emotionally. She left the ice on a really disastrous note, and she may be having mental consistency problems as she tries to get back into competition.

    And I don't intend to be a computer psychologist. What I mean is that Alissa isn't known for her mental solidity.
  10. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

    If anything, it isn't just the spins. It's the whole final segment. The music is so tight and she always seems to be in such a rush that her circular steps doesn't come close to the boards, her choreographic sequence doesn't cover enough ice, she often has to skip the forward spiral and split jump that follow her Charlotte at the end, and again the rush on the final spin. It's a lot of points on the table.
  11. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

    Another thing to note, Wagner has convincingly beaten almost all the top Russian ladies in her 2 GPs (Sot and Leonova in USA and Tuk, Lip and Polina K in FRA) whom she is likely to compete against at the GPF and Worlds this season and in Sochi next season, without landing a 3/3 or even 2/3.
  12. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member



    After reading this thread, I just now watched the aforementioned program and was blown away by another perfect program from Ashley. Not surprised though. She's always had it in her, always, from the beginning. She has what cannot be taught - the heart of a champion, passion, *fight*, and consistency. :cool:

    Thanks for the stats, well deserved, and correct imho. Ashley still has a ways to go to match Sasha's performance ability and artistry. However, she's getting there. Imho her "Black Swan" is almost on par with Sasha's "Romeo & Juliet". In fact she's always reminded me of Sasha in terms of fight & passion. However, oddly enough she reminded me of Michelle Kwan in this "Samson & Delilah" program. It's all good. :)
  13. johndockley92

    johndockley92 New Member

    Based on all those great scores, if these ladies keep their heads together and perform their best, Nationals will be a great event that I'm really excited for!
  14. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

    The level three on the flying sit spin makes sense. Since they got rid of the 8 revolution feature for sit spins, she only has 3 features (the death drop, the first position, and the tuck under the spinning leg).
  15. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

    I just dont like Ashleys programs. They are all the same too me. She just reuses the same stiff arm movements and boring choreography. Her jumps are good, her spins are ok but the program is boring
  16. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

  17. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    So, if Wagner gets the levels down pat on her spins, and adds a 3-3 to the SP and 2x-3t to the LP, we could see her close to 200 pts., no?

    As a strategy, she may want to stand firm with her programs as they are now for the GPF since it's just a couple of weeks away. Maybe, she should just work on those spins. Then, with all the time between the GPF and Nationals in January, work on the 3-3 and/or at least the 2x-3t to add those combos to her programs. I think Ashley could risk a fall in her performances at Nationals on such difficult elements but still make the team. She will need the more difficult combos by Worlds against world champ Kostner, a returning Kim, and perhaps head-to-head all at once against Asada, Suzuki and the Russian babies (even if she's beaten those last few skaters, they will probably be bringing it by Worlds).

    BTW, watching Gao, she is becoming more a pleasure to watch each time. Does she have just as much of a legitimate shot as the rest at a Worlds spot?

    ETA - I was looking at the roster for ladies at NHK. The advantage probably goes to the Japanese ladies (Asada, Suzuki) but Nagasu or Zawadzki could sneak in there for a medal
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
  18. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    I think Gao is ready to be US #2, imho. She's been skating senior at nationals for a few years and she's done gp for 2 seasons already, and 4 years of international experience together. Plus her basics is sound. The big question is her Harvard schedule next semester
  19. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

    I think missing the Olympic and world teams in 2009, 2010, and 2011 were the best things that could have happened to Ashley. She has just totally stepped it up and is showing that she is a champion. I know its not the same type of "transformation" we saw from Michelle Kwan from 1995 to 1996 however it is similar in that she has made huge changes to make sure she is a World Champion contender. Although she did not go through the "little girl jumping bean to "artistic genius" in one year-she has gone from a second tier skater to possibly the one to beat at nationals and possibly worlds. She was NOT happy with all those third places at Nationals and it shows. In my mind she has gone from Emily Hughes status to-maybe not Kwan or Cohen yet but somewhere in between Sarah Hughes and Sasha Cohen lol.
  20. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

    If we MUST compare Wagner that way, I'd say she's more of a Hughes than a Cohen. It's really the consistency that's keeping her in the mix...not sure if she could afford mistakes and still finish on the podium (like Cohen could do). But she's not yet on Hughes' level in terms of jump content...
  21. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

    I tend to agree that Nationals is Ashley's to lose. Gracie may not yet have the mental game to successfully wind up in the #2 spot, or for that matter, Sochi. The jury is still out on the degree to which/speed she may or may not progress. Christina appears to have gone through that transition based on her Grand Prix performance, impact of Harvard responsibilities not withstanding.
  22. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

    Well she is getting Asada-level PCS now as well as very solid GOEs and just beat a clean Tuk with 7 triples and 2 2axels by 6 points in the free. I think she can definitely afford a mistake or two.

    Comparing her to Hughes just reminds me of Hughes' jumping technique and it just hurts my soul. :drama: Wagner's jumps were never that ugly no matter how much she flutzed, UR-ed or 2-footed them.
  23. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

    Thanks, was not even aware of this. Okay, so now everything makes sense.
  24. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

    I've said it before Gracie will most likely peak after Sochi. Question is if it will be to soon for her to make the Olympic team in 2014. Just look how long it's took Ashley to get to this level of skating. In 2018 Gracie will be Ashley's age in Sochi.
  25. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

    It's the Renaissance of American Ladies. Good to see! Seems that Wagner, Gold, Gao and Zawadski ( and maybe Nagasu) are ready to compete and win over anybody. So excited for Nationals, Worlds etc.
  26. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

    Hate comparing skaters, but something about the hype on Gracie reminds me of Kimmie.
  27. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    US ladies have been due for a rebound since 2010. They showed some signs of success the last two seasons, but misfortune and other factors ground their momentum to a halt at worlds the last two seasons. It's just a matter of time they are back for an upswing. So glad it happens this season and not after Sochi! :)
  28. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

  29. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

    ^^ Thanks for posting. That was great!
  30. Sylvia

    Sylvia Prepping for club comp. season!

    Tomas Verner (in the black wig) skated in the chorus with Gilles/Poirier.

    It's great seeing this less reserved public side of Christina! ;) I heard she changed her original exhibition program to this one rather last-minute and Zach Donohue helped her out with the choreography. #gaonamstyle is becoming a popular hash tag on Twitter! :cool:
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2012