U.S. Ladies [#18]: These Boots Are Made for Skating

[vesperholly]

I totally thought Starr Andrews was just skating for fun (not with an Olympic goal) when I saw the Whip My Hair video, but girl is killing it! I still don't agree that she should've gone Senior - she has a very good chance to be the future of USFS, but she certainly isn't their present. (Unless she's trying for a shot a Jr worlds by competing at Senior nationals like some skaters do?)

Starr went to Junior Worlds this past season after Amber Glenn withdrew and placed 12th. She already medaled as a Junior and she'll certainly be on the JGP circuit this season. The move to Senior isn't premature, IMO.

 

[olympic]

USFS implemented bonus points to jumps in lower-level competitions a couple of seasons ago, which is probably responsible for the increased jump content and difficulty we are seeing now.

This is one of the most encouraging things I've read in relation to the future of US skating

 

[maureenfarone]

So I recently had the chance to interview U.S. Junior Ladies pewter medalist Emmy Ma. I'm sure many of you will remember Emmy from Nationals this year! I really admire her skating.

Here is the interview link. Do check it out, if you enjoy Emmy's skating. She talks about her success last season, her plans for the upcoming season, her favorite skaters, the progress of her technical elements, what kind of music she likes to skate to, etc.

Thanks Claire. I really enjoyed Emmy's SP and then was very concerned that she might be injured when she had a rough FS. Good to know there wasn't an injury. I hope to see her in San Jose!

 

[ZilphaK]

@Sylvia, do you know what Starr's jump content was for that competition? (I may have missed it mentioned.)

 

[personwhoishere]

@Sylvia, do you know what Starr's jump content was for that competition? (I may have missed it mentioned.)

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/wjc2017/wjc2017_JuniorLadies_FS_Scores.pdf

Several URs but a 3-3 and a 3z were attempted.

 

[Marco]

USFS implemented bonus points to jumps in lower-level competitions a couple of seasons ago, which is probably responsible for the increased jump content and difficulty we are seeing now.

I believe RUS did that many years ago and look where they are now.

 

[Bellanca]

Well, it is either emphasize jump content for the U.S. or be left behind.

As much as I appreciate and prefer beautiful, artistic skating, the increasing difficulty, and the importance of the jumps in a program are the viable content the judges and tech panel are looking for.

Two U.S. skaters that are experimenting with increasing their technical content are Mirai and Karen. We'll see if they ultimately decide to consistently incorporate these jumps, from their training environment, into actual competition this Olympic season

 

[olympic]

^Are you referring to the 3A for both? I think Mirai wants to go for a 3Z as a solo jump this year in the SP

 

[aftershocks]

Has this been posted before? Interesting from Polina Edmunds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5-8SXEEY3A RISE (Katy Perry)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foTZUIxWHtQ Same video as above with different music

 

[Bellanca]

^Are you referring to the 3A for both? I think Mirai wants to go for a 3Z as a solo jump this year in the SP

Yes, that is my understanding regarding both Mirai and Karen, but more realistically, the goal is to up the technical ante somehow for both of these skaters. This would be something to watch out for.

Mirai's 3Z, if successful, would put her a step ahead, obviously. The 3A, as we know, can either sink or swim a skater's program, unless you have goodwill established (aka reputation and credibility) w/ that jump, like Mao Asada enjoyed.

I think the 3A is very risky for Karen to do, to even attempt, and it makes me nervous for her. However, as someone else has already mentioned, Karen gets good height and has good form, etc. So, if any U.S lady can pull it off, she has a decent shot.

Back to Mirai, for a moment, and as I always say concerning her, concentrate on fully rotating ALL jumps. That's the demon! Well, nerves, too. Do this, and the scores she will need to be successful are there for her. Mirai knows this. My understanding, is that her team feels those extra points can be achieved through technical elements, as she already pushes the limit w/ PCS, except when she gets nervous and then she skates tight. If Mirai could learn to relax more, her PCS will go up. You know this, Mirai knows this -- heck, we all know this!

As for Karen, her team feels that a stronger TES will be helpful to her cause by separating herself from a generously scored PCS skater.

My apologies for being a tad long-winded and for the post sounding a bit convoluted, but I am posting from an iPhone, and yikes! What a pain in the ... that is! But, this is what I know, for now. Nothing earth shattering, nothing exciting, nothing new, really. Just two skaters looking to up the (technical) ante and (hopefully) get ahead in the crucial Olympic year.

 

[clairecloutier]

Hmmmm, interesting strategies from Mirai/Karen's teams, if that is the case, not sure I fully agree. I think Mirai's PCS needs more work than her team seems to believe. And I think Karen would benefit more from further developing herself as an all-around skater ( that's her strength anyway) as opposed to focusing a lot on 3A. As we know from Mao, Tukt, etc., 3A can be a big deal but also a slippery slope for ladies. Karen is injury-prone, with her foot problems, so I would worry about her and 3A. Just my 2 cents. If Karen could just start skating consistently, I think her PCS would get a big boost--not to Med levels yet, but better. Then again, if it's Karen herself who really wants to try 3A, I admire her ambition.

 

[olympic]

I also agree that U.S. ladies really need to just focus on executing the full arsenal of jumps cleanly and skating w/ freedom that will come from secure elements, which would boost PCS. Their marks will go up just by achieving those 2 items on the bucket list. The 3A could be a distraction. Look at Karen: More often than not, she messes up a program w/ a botched easier jump. It seems Team Karen has more to focus on before even considering a 3A!

 

[Sylvia]

@Sylvia, do you know what Starr's jump content was for that competition? (I may have missed it mentioned.)

My hearsay info is that Andrews' new combo in her SP this year is 3F+3T and that she landed it in the SoCal Interclub competition last weekend. 2 or 3Lz out of steps is required in the SP for international junior singles skaters so that will likely be a main focus for her as well.

Here's a new Q&A with Starr Andrews (in conjunction with her new official website that launched today - link is posted at the end of the Q&A): http://figureskatersonline.com/news...andrews-sets-her-sights-high-for-next-season/

 

[Sylvia]

Has this been posted before? Interesting from Polina Edmunds:

Both links were posted in the Polina Edmunds comeback news thread in GSD: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/in...ompetitive-skating.101246/page-2#post-5073243

ETA:

Bradie Tennell looked really sharp in winning the Senior Ladies SP at Broadmoor Open yesterday. This is the second time this month she has landed her jumps cleanly in the SP (3Lz+3T, 3Lo, 2A) and she scored 69.53 [40.87 TES 1st/28.66 PCS 1st] this time. Her SP music is from the Taegukgi film soundtrack (composed by Dong-jun Lee), choreographed by Scott Brown.

 

[mag]

Hmmmm, interesting strategies from Mirai/Karen's teams, if that is the case, not sure I fully agree. I think Mirai's PCS needs more work than her team seems to believe. And I think Karen would benefit more from further developing herself as an all-around skater ( that's her strength anyway) as opposed to focusing a lot on 3A. As we know from Mao, Tukt, etc., 3A can be a big deal but also a slippery slope for ladies. Karen is injury-prone, with her foot problems, so I would worry about her and 3A. Just my 2 cents. If Karen could just start skating consistently, I think her PCS would get a big boost--not to Med levels yet, but better. Then again, if it's Karen herself who really wants to try 3A, I admire her ambition.

This. Mirai needs a lot of work on the PCS side. IMHO she is sometimes overscored for what she actually does. The choreography may be lovely, but it usually looks to me like she is doing what she has been told to do. Taking it to the next level and really owning the movement and having the music really flowing through her will take consistent work.

 

[AxelAnnie]

And, it may be admirable to develop a the 3A - but not in an Oly year.

 

[Willin]

I remember there was a TSL interview with Kimmie Meisner where she talked about the 3A being both a distraction and taking a huge toll on her body. I wonder if it's the same for all female skaters, considering the trouble Tuk had after landing it in competition (though weather it's the 3A or the strategy for her winning season is debatable).

I think the difference between focusing on learning quads in the men's event and learning 3A's in the ladies event is this: the men need a quad to get on that world podium - there's no choice but to try quads. For the ladies, no current podium contender has a 3A, and ladies that win are those that are consistent and have 3-3s. Therefore, while in men's skating it makes sense to focus on upping the ante in jump revolutions, in ladies skaters should focus on quality and consistency on 3-3's - because that's what's winning. Mirai is plagued by URs, so she should focus on that issue if she wants to win; Karen is plagued by inconsistency, so she should work on that. Neither should care about the 3A so long as it's not anywhere near needed for the podium. They just need to be consistently landing the jumps they have cleanly.

 

[Spun Silver]

I think Mirai IS working on her PCS by choosing Jeff Buttle as her choreographer - as we have already seen in her SP last year.

 

[mag]

I think Mirai IS working on her PCS by choosing Jeff Buttle as her choreographer - as we have already seen in her SP last year.

I agree that is start, but only a start. IMHO Mirai's problem is with the interpretation and presentation of the choreography. I just don't get the impression, from the way she skates in competition, that there is enough, or even any, emphasis on training the interpretation and presentation. Just like technical skills, those two thing do not just happen and are not "natural." Skaters who are "naturals" generally spend many hours over many years learning to do it "naturally." Not all have the same success, but in Mirai's case, she would have more success if she put in the training.

 

[Bellanca]

I also agree that U.S. ladies really need to just focus on executing the full arsenal of jumps cleanly and skating w/ freedom that will come from secure elements, which would boost PCS. Their marks will go up just by achieving those 2 items on the bucket list. The 3A could be a distraction. Look at Karen: More often than not, she messes up a program w/ a botched easier jump. It seems Team Karen has more to focus on before even considering a 3A!

I agree 100% that both Mirai and Karen need, first and foremost, to concentrate and focus on clean, solid skates w/ PCS friendly appeal, etc. Their teams certainly aren’t going to abandon any of that in favor of technical muscle. However, the thinking is when you are trying to make an Olympic team and indeed if you make that team, then you start to plan for and envision cracking into the top tier, which, for now, is Med’s world ... a tall order. Not to mention, Osmond and Daleman, the rest of the current World podium. So how do you do this? You will need to up the ante, and one of the quickest ways to do this is to look at a skater’s jumps or jumping content. For example, Osmond and Daleman, both ladies will have incredible scores and the advantage if they skate a clean SP. Daleman can easily blow the roof off w/ her technical advantage if she skates clean. Osmond, too, will reap enormous benefits of a solid, clean SP and enjoy considerable PCS, TES, SS scores, etc. So, if you are the rest of the field, you adjust. I am using the current World podium as an example, keeping in mind that other skaters, not mentioned, are considered top tier and should factor into this post.

As already suggested, clean, consistent skating is a good, basic start that both Mirai and Karen have struggled with, and again, should solely focus on, IMHO.

If Mirai and Karen can fully rotate their jumps as they currently stand, skate clean, remain free of any nagging boot problems, etc., they’re three-quarters of the way there, and they too will soon enjoy good scores. This is a no-brainer. It takes discipline to stick with it and resist the temptation to put the cart before the horse. However, a lot of skaters are constantly looking to move ahead, even if some shouldn’t.

The challenge then becomes trying to keep up with other competitors who may do the same thing, and probably are. So, skaters and their teams look for an opportunity to advance their skating agenda to get ahead of the field or at least keep up with it. For some skaters, that means upping the TES ante, especially if you feel this to be the quickest and surest way to additional points added to your final score.

Skating skills, etc. that is all good and well, very important, of course, especially with the IJS/CoP. However, if you have a skater who can train and successfully bring to any competition a difficult jump, jumping pass or jump combo, they’re going to go for it, even if they should just concentrate on, and clean up their basic skating. There is also the desire to let the rest of the skating world know that you are training something challenging and that you might bring it to competition and to keep people guessing. Never underestimate the psychology and mind games that go into this sport.

Will either Mirai or Karen break out the 3A consistently enough, in competition, to make a difference? Who knows. In Karen’s case, we may never see it, or maybe she drops it in there someday, soon. If Karen or Mirai decide to add in the 3A this season, they had better land that sucker! Unless you have solid, superior, basic skating skills and great, consistent jumps above and beyond this risky point accumulating 3A, i.e. Mao Asada, (or Tuk, when she was on her game) then I, personally, do not think it is a very good idea. To miss any jump, but particularly the 3A is to dig a big hole especially if done in a SP, which usually translates to game over.

The judges, the tech panel, they love clean and consistent skating with a healthy appreciation for an impressive set of jumping passes. Guess who has both? Janny. Everyone is trying to play catch-up to the front-runner, but also pass some teammates along the way.

It is the Olympic year, people want to participate, so the stakes are high.

 

[Spun Silver]

I agree that is start, but only a start. IMHO Mirai's problem is with the interpretation and presentation of the choreography. I just don't get the impression, from the way she skates in competition, that there is enough, or even any, emphasis on training the interpretation and presentation. Just like technical skills, those two thing do not just happen and are not "natural." Skaters who are "naturals" generally spend many hours over many years learning to do it "naturally." Not all have the same success, but in Mirai's case, she would have more success if she put in the training.

I am sure you are right and I would love to see it happen too. I think all Mirai's fans would. However, from what she said to The Skating Lesson about a year ago, it is very difficult for her to emote while meeting the technical demands of her programs. In other words, it doesnt come naturally but is an added skill to learn when she is already pushing her limit. I think we may just have to be happy that she finally decided to get beautiful, complicated choreography that brings out her body's expressiveness even if she isn't generally "selling it" and skating freely the way we would love to see. Maybe the more she focuses on tech the more she will be able to get in the zone where she is in full command and free to give that extra push of selling it.

 

[aftershocks]

Here's a new Q&A with Starr Andrews (in conjunction with her new official website that launched today - link is posted at the end of the Q&A): http://figureskatersonline.com/news...andrews-sets-her-sights-high-for-next-season/

Lots of fun reading lovely sixteen-year-old Starr's responses! She's got huge ambition and stars in her eyes, and that's a good thing! I absolutely love that her career goal off-ice is becoming a veterinarian. A girl after my own heart.

Tech is obviously mucho importante, but I truly wish the sport would advocate more for improving blade skills/skating skills as well as interpretive abilities. Starr is a talented athlete and she's a budding star interpretively too. She's got some great lines also. Every skater can always use work though on stroking and on figures practice. Young skaters need to have a deeper and a broader understanding of how important those basics are to the development of figure skating. That definitely needs to be taught. Jumps are important, but the blade on ice is truly what fs is all about. You can get into the air with greater ease and land with better finesse if you understand the blade/ice dynamics and exactly how to apply with skill and efficiency!

I'm certainly not a fs coach, but I wonder whether there isn't something missing in training skaters about the very important fundamentals of blade control. In a 2010 manleywoman podcast, I will never forget Tom Dickson's explication of the connection between jump technique and figures experience.
http://www.manleywoman.com/episode-36-tom-dickson/ The important highlights of this interview are transcribed and it's definitely worth a read (or a listen to the audio). Especially scroll to the transcribed sections entitled:

On Whether Skaters' Skills Have Changed After the End of Compulsory Figures ***
("If you’ve learned [figures] loops you know how to pull a tight edge, whereas now, I train people daily who need to know how to do that... I think the calming, balancing influence of figures ... is an element that skaters' don't have in their repertoire these days... We have a figures session at our rink once a week ... that's because everything you're doing in a jump is based on compulsory figures. Every position you take, the way you rotate with a curve or against a curve, all those are the foundation for shifting your weight off the ice and jumping. I call [compulsory] figures 'yoga on ice.' It's how to get into difficult positions and relax and sustain...")
But moreover, the most interesting and instructive thing Dickson points out is how this connection has been 'forgotten.' And also ironically how when compulsory figures were required, "we never understood how integral they were to everything. We look back now and we're like, wow, we could use [compulsory figures] now for [the more difficult footwork and jumps skaters] are required to do.")

On Choreographing for Different Personality Types
On Working With the New Judging System Requirements
On Getting Skaters to Express Themselves Through His Choreography
On Being Coached by Carlo Fassi ("... he was the kind of coach where if ... you were good at something, he knew how to perfect it...")
On Touring with Torvill and Dean
On Choreographing for Different Personality Types
On How Choreography Has Changed From Decade to Decade

 

[olympic]

Both links were posted in the Polina Edmunds comeback news thread in GSD: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/in...ompetitive-skating.101246/page-2#post-5073243

ETA:

Bradie Tennell looked really sharp in winning the Senior Ladies SP at Broadmoor Open yesterday. This is the second time this month she has landed her jumps cleanly in the SP (3Lz+3T, 3Lo, 2A) and she scored 69.53 [40.87 TES 1st/28.66 PCS 1st] this time. Her SP music is from the Taegukgi film soundtrack (composed by Dong-jun Lee), choreographed by Scott Brown.

Thank you, Sylvia. Per your page, Bradie rocked the LP and finished w/ a combined score above 190. Great start! Looks like she was fairly consistent w/ the 3-3.

 

[Bill Trenary]

Perhaps this is mentioned elsewhere, but Ashley Wagner is one of the subjects in ESPN's upcoming body issue. She quickly appears in their promo video (around the 1:48 mark). As does Julian Edelman. Which leaves zero doubt I will be purchasing it

http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id...23-athletes-featured-espn-magazine-body-issue

 

[toddlj]

Perhaps this is mentioned elsewhere, but Ashley Wagner is one of the subjects in ESPN's upcoming body issue. She quickly appears in their promo video (around the 1:48 mark). As does Julian Edelman. Which leaves zero doubt I will be purchasing it

http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id...23-athletes-featured-espn-magazine-body-issue

She is also seen very briefly at the 7-second mark.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Just because we can doesn't mean we should. That is a lot of naked and tattooed people

 

[toddlj]

Just because we can doesn't mean we should. That is a lot of naked and tattooed people

I'm personally a big fan of naked and tattooed people. But to each his own.

 

[Coco]

It just bothers me that this will be the most attention she ever gets from ESPN, despite all her athletic achievements.

 

[jenny12]

I'm personally a big fan of naked and tattooed people. But to each his own.

Yeah and it's not as if she's posing for Playboy (though if she wanted to, have at it). Both male and female athletes (Serena Williams, Dwayne Wade, etc.) do the ESPN body issue and the poses are always very tasteful and celebrate athleticism.

 

[DimaToe]

So is she the first female skater to pose for the body issue?

If so I'd say that's big. It's like another crack to the pretty princess mold she's been breaking for a while. So congrats to her. Ashley like all elite level athletes work HARD to stay in top form. If they want to show that off congrats to them, idk why nudity still remains so taboo, why must someone be aware of when to show their body because others can't get over seeing some skin? Let's not forget that in the ancient Olympics they competed naked...covered in olive oil...