U.S. Ladies [#17]: Heading to Helsinki in a Handbasket

[LilJen]

OY. I've broken both my ankles. I don't have flat feet but I do pronate. I decided custom was the way to go. And that's worked for me. But weird issues can always crop up, with quality control, or losing a long-time technician within a boot company, or suddenly having a supplier go bust or supplying lower-quality materials. It *IS* frustrating, though, that what seems like a simple issue (hey, my boots don't fit) can become so complicated and problematic.

 

[Cleo1782]

I am so depressed about the Worlds situation. If we ever needed Polina or Gracie to be healthy it would be this worlds. Just one of them. I know the Olympics is the ultimate goal, but Ashley Wagner really needs to pull a medal out somehow to make this happen. I think Mirai better keep training. I knew Chen was going to say boot problems again (not that it's not true), but if she can't perform then she needs to withdraw. And Mariah needs to pull it together and skate like she can.

 

[Braulio]

Karen Chen needs to withdraw and give her spot to Mirai

I still think nationals was a fluke for her, sorry

 

[Skateparent]

I am so depressed about the Worlds situation. If we ever needed Polina or Gracie to be healthy it would be this worlds. Just one of them. I know the Olympics is the ultimate goal, but Ashley Wagner really needs to pull a medal out somehow to make this happen. I think Mirai better keep training. I knew Chen was going to say boot problems again (not that it's not true), but if she can't perform then she needs to withdraw. And Mariah needs to pull it together and skate like she can.

Totally agree. Injuries could happen (boot issues or not) between now and the Worlds, and Mirai is the first alternate. Must be hard for her to continue training though...mentally it feels like her season has ended.

 

[alexikeguchi]

I would have to look back at the announcement, but I seem to recall that Polina cited bone reaction to ill-fitting boots when she withdrew from 4CC and then Worlds last year. Given that she is still unable to compete or even train fully, Karen shouldn't expect to be 100% in the next month. If her problems are boot fit due to how her ankle healed, which makes perfect sense, she should really take the time to deal with the underlying problem ASAP to allow a hope of effectively competing in the Olympic season. She skated beautifully at Nationals and kept her nerve, so I think she would stay in the conversation for an Olympic spot provided she is healthy... much more than if she competes in this state and finishes dismally.

 

[Marco]

3 Russians, 2 Canadians, 3 Japanese, Carolina, Ashley, Zijun, the Korean lady (hopefully they are rethinking Dabin) - I think Mariah and Karen will be lucky to make top ten EVEN IF CLEAN. And yes, given Ashley's UR issues this season (or that she has always had them but they are being called out more often), her own top 5 is also in jeopardy.

 

[vesperholly]

3 Russians, 2 Canadians, 3 Japanese, Carolina, Ashley, Zijun, the Korean lady (hopefully they are rethinking Dabin) - I think Mariah and Karen will be lucky to make top ten EVEN IF CLEAN. And yes, given Ashley's UR issues this season (or that she has always had them but they are being called out more often), her own top 5 is also in jeopardy.

I don't think all of those skaters are necessarily above Mariah and Karen on any given day. Bell beat both Li and Higuchi at 4CC. Higuchi did pretty badly at 4CC and Miyahara is injured with unknown status. Daleman and Osmond are accomplished headcases who could be 3rd or 13th. Li can get hammered for UR. The only skaters I'm willing to bet on are the Russians.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Kostner!

 

[Spareoom]

It is bizarre that the US ladies have three spots when they don't really "need" them and the US men have two when they're leaving some supremely talented people at home.

Wishing all of the women the best of luck at Worlds and I hope no one blames the girls if/when the third spot is gone; the focus should be on quality over quantity.

 

[mag]

I would have to look back at the announcement, but I seem to recall that Polina cited bone reaction to ill-fitting boots when she withdrew from 4CC and then Worlds last year. Given that she is still unable to compete or even train fully, Karen shouldn't expect to be 100% in the next month. If her problems are boot fit due to how her ankle healed, which makes perfect sense, she should really take the time to deal with the underlying problem ASAP to allow a hope of effectively competing in the Olympic season. She skated beautifully at Nationals and kept her nerve, so I think she would stay in the conversation for an Olympic spot provided she is healthy... much more than if she competes in this state and finishes dismally.

There is no reason to assume that Chen's issues are in anyway similar to Polina's. Your post reads, IMHO, like someone who just wants to see Mirai at worlds. Karen earned her spot fair and square and I truly believe Mirai would be appalled at people suggesting that Karen withdraw this early in the game. The complete and total lack of sportsmanship in your post is flabbergasting.

 

[giselle23]

I would have to look back at the announcement, but I seem to recall that Polina cited bone reaction to ill-fitting boots when she withdrew from 4CC and then Worlds last year. Given that she is still unable to compete or even train fully, Karen shouldn't expect to be 100% in the next month. If her problems are boot fit due to how her ankle healed, which makes perfect sense, she should really take the time to deal with the underlying problem ASAP to allow a hope of effectively competing in the Olympic season. She skated beautifully at Nationals and kept her nerve, so I think she would stay in the conversation for an Olympic spot provided she is healthy... much more than if she competes in this state and finishes dismally.

Polina had more than boot problems or a boot injury. She had a bone bruise. Karen had solved her boot problems, as we saw at Nationals.
ETA-I see from prior posts, Karen is still having boot problems. That is a concern.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

Great,now everyone will be hyper-ventilating about boot issues the next month.

It pains me to say it,but I never hear excuses from the Japanese or Russian girls.

-BB

 

[worldsnice12]

I think the American ladies will do just fine at Worlds. 4CC was a good experience for Bell and she has high scoring potrntial. The key for her is that SP and I wish her team would reconsider the combo..Does anybody know ih she has ever tried 3F/3T or 3T/3T before?
Same with Karen, she would score well if she hits her elements and I hope the boot problems will be sorted out shortly. Of course I am one of those Mirai sentimentals but it would not be right to kick somebody off the team once the selections are done. Based on the "new" selection criterias I really thought it was a close call for selecting Mirai to the Worlds team but it did not turn out that way. I do not understand why USFA does not wait to after 4CC but that is another discussion..

 

[StitchMonkey]

I think the American ladies will do just fine at Worlds. 4CC was a good experience for Bell and she has high scoring potrntial. The key for her is that SP and I wish her team would reconsider the combo..Does anybody know ih she has ever tried 3F/3T or 3T/3T before?
Same with Karen, she would score well if she hits her elements and I hope the boot problems will be sorted out shortly. Of course I am one of those Mirai sentimentals but it would not be right to kick somebody off the team once the selections are done. Based on the "new" selection criterias I really thought it was a close call for selecting Mirai to the Worlds team but it did not turn out that way. I do not understand why USFA does not wait to after 4CC but that is another discussion..

She used to do the 3F/3T... even landed a couple with positive GOE. Not sure why she switched things around. I recall it was rather sudden around 2016 US Nationals.

 

[wickedwitch]

She used to do the 3F/3T... even landed a couple with positive GOE. Not sure why she switched things around. I recall it was rather sudden around 2016 US Nationals.

My guess was because Mariah sometimes got ! calls on the lutz. By doing the lutz-toe, if she fell on the toe, she wouldn't lose additional points by having an unclear edge.

 

[becca]

Great,now everyone will be hyper-ventilating about boot issues the next month.

It pains me to say it,but I never hear excuses from the Japanese or Russian girls.

-BB

Right. I would think a good gut check of whether one is in good enough shape to skate- is I am in good enough shape where I feel comfortable taking responsibility for what I put out there?

 

[Coco]

It pains me to say it,but I never hear excuses from the Japanese or Russian girls.

-BB

Very true...And this is different from the turn of the century, when I seem to recall Slutskaya making excuses frequently. This is before she got ill. Sorry I don't have examples ready, but it was so excessive I remember posting about her that as long as you make excuses, you will continue to need to make excuses.

 

[Sylvia]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BQy2F6NjxxN/?taken-by=johnwilsonblades

Tomorrow at 3pm Pacific Time, @ashwagner2010 is right here, live on the official #johnwilsonblades Instagram to answer your questions and hand out some swag. #swagner #revolution

This is taking place on Wednesday 2/22 at 6 pm Eastern time.

 

[berthesghost]

Great,now everyone will be hyper-ventilating about boot issues the next month.

It pains me to say it,but I never hear excuses from the Japanese or Russian girls.

-BB

Wow Brenda, good for you reading Russian and Japanese newspapers and blogs regularly!

But as you know, Japanese ladies don't give excuses, they only give official apologies to their nation. And Russian ladies only have two excuses: it's always either the mob is after me or the Americans cheated. North Americans have that Yankee ingenuity: if it's not boot trouble, a ghost in the hotel room or a changed bus schedule, it's the old my rival and her ex tried to have my legs broken excuse.

 

[leigh466]

Great,now everyone will be hyper-ventilating about boot issues the next month.

It pains me to say it,but I never hear excuses from the Japanese or Russian girls.

-BB

Well, to be fair, there is a language barrier, and I doubt every newspaper article, let alone every blog, facebook post, or tweet is being translated for our consumption.

 

[Willin]

I think the lack of excuses (that we've heard) is also a cultural thing. (The anthropology major in me says)

In Japan, they have a very collectivist culture that values hard work. If you don't succeed, you're expected to say it's because you didn't work hard enough or do your best, so next time, you'll just try harder or do better. Of course, if there is something wrong (like an injury), you can announce it, but it's not an excuse to stop working hard (even if working hard means working to recover quickly).

In Russia, skating has a culture of competition. If you fail, you fail. It doesn't matter why. When you fail, you have to fight your way to the top - no excuses necessary. When (if) you get back up there, it doesn't matter why you failed in the past, just that you keep fighting for and getting that good placement. If you never get back to the top, oh well.

I don't really have an explanation for America, but if I were to theorize it, I think it would be our tendency towards optimism. We want to see our skaters do well, and most Americans like a scrappy underdog or a comeback. It's good to see a rising star come up (hope for the future), but we also value seeing our favorites do well - we don't like to see them fail. If we hear that the skater didn't work hard enough, we take it as a sign of bad character, not as a promise from the athlete to work harder towards success. Instead, we like to hear excuses. They give us a cushion - not a "well, maybe she'll never win," but rather a "well, she might win once she overcomes that injury." Or, in Karen's situation, instead of "she's can't put it together in international competition," we get "she has boot problems" or "she's just getting used to the Senior level."
Excuses can be good for the narrative some fans want (particularly those every-4-years fans and the NBC-Olympics commentary that feeds them who want hope the US can get a medal). Excuses can be bad for the narrative other fans want (X skater sucks!). Similarly, some skaters can use excuses to their advantage (as a coping tool for a bad result) and others find themselves weighted down by excuses (believing the excuse and not understanding why fixing it doesn't fix their problems).


Honestly, I don't think excuses are a great thing - I hate them - but it's much harder to change culture, so I live with them.

 

[rosewood]

Wow Brenda, good for you reading Russian and Japanese newspapers and blogs regularly!

But as you know, Japanese ladies don't give excuses, they only give official apologies to their nation. And Russian ladies only have two excuses: it's always either the mob is after me or the Americans cheated. North Americans have that Yankee ingenuity: if it's not boot trouble, a ghost in the hotel room or a changed bus schedule, it's the old my rival and her ex tried to have my legs broken excuse.

I can't speak for Russian ladies, but I've heard various excuses from lots of Japanese ladies ... from athlete's foot to coach-less.

 

[clairecloutier]

I've definitely heard Russian skaters at least mention boot problems before. Like this year, Stolbova has had really major issues caused by her boots. It may not be as common as here, but it is mentioned.

I think @Willin's ideas about American optimism could be a factor here. We like to think that problems are solvable. Who doesnt I guess.

 

[Joubabe]

Can someone explain how a skater can go through 14 or more pairs of boots, then announce that her boot problems are solved, skate great, only to have the boot problems resurface three weeks later? Is that plausible?

 

[kwanfan1818]

Perhaps that optimism leads to unrealistic expectations, so that "She's getting used to seniors" sounds like an excuse rather than what we should expect in the trajectory of a skater who isn't a prodigy like Plushenko or, as it appears so far, Medvedeva, who has never been off the podium in any international competition, and who didn't win gold in only three of them: 2013-14 JGPF and Jr. Worlds and 2015 Rostelecom Cup.

 

[kwanatic]

We have two newbies heading to Worlds for the first time. Normally this would be an immensely pressure-filled situation but as this is the pre-Olympic year, the pressure is tenfold b/c how the team performs this year will have major repercussions next year. It's a stinky situation to be in and someone is going to get the blame if we lose that spot. Right now it's looking like that person might be Karen.

That's the double-edge sword of success. It comes with the glory and recognition but it also comes with pressure and expectation and I'm not too sure Karen is ready for it. She's never been a great competitor, all the way back to her junior days. She'd have flashes of brilliance here or there but in most cases she was a gorgeous skater who couldn't keep it together.

To be honest, I don't see that any of that has changed. The optimist in me wants to say, "oh she'll pull off a miracle at Worlds and despite boot issues and a weak competition record she's going to skate amazingly and place 8th or better in the most pressure-filled competition of her life." That could happen...but the odds of it happening aren't that great.

At this point I'm crossing my fingers for Mariah more than Karen. Mariah isn't that much better in terms of competitive nerve but, of the two of them, she seems to hold up better. We just need one of them to step up at Worlds.

I'm not on the "dump one of the others and send Mirai to Worlds" train b/c, when it mattered, Mirai didn't step up. She had a clear shot at the team this year and she failed to deliver. I'm not being mean, I'm just being honest. She was 2nd after the SP at nationals. If she'd skated the way she skated at 4CC in the FS she'd have come in 3rd or better. She blew her chance. Having said that, she seems to be slightly more reliable than the two we're sending ahead of her and if there were a way to replace someone on the team with her, I'd be all for it. However, even if that were to happen, by no means is Mirai a guarantee either. She'd need to crack 200+ at least to place in the range we'd need and she's never done that.

If Karen knows she's still having boot problems and is not going to be able to skate well, rather than incur the wrath of the fans that will befall her if she competes and tanks (a la Tibiagate with Rachael Flatt in 2012), it may be in her best interest to relinquish her spot. But it should be a decision that comes from her and her team; she shouldn't be forced to do it. I wonder if the USFS will be monitoring her now? She basically announced that she's not at her best. You'd think they'd keep an eye on her to make sure she's doing well. Then again, that contradicts my whole "it's her decision" statement b/c if they are monitoring her and see that she's not up to par, my guess is they would strip her of her spot.

It's just a big ol' mess...

 

[Frida80]

Can someone explain how a skater can go through 14 or more pairs of boots, then announce that her boot problems are solved, skate great, only to have the boot problems resurface three weeks later? Is that plausible?

Of course. She said in the beginning in the season that she was in less pain, not pain free. As boots age, so does their support. I remember when my boots started to break down in the inner ole. My leather was still stiff, but my feet were in excruciating pain! I has to go through 29 inserts before I found on that fixed the problem. She may have solved the problem, but as the boot ages the fit changes. She just got a new pair yesterday. I have my fingers crossed.

 

[Jun Y]

I do wonder whether Japanese fans are having nearly as much handwringing as US fans over their ladies. One of my favorite skaters, Wakaba Higuchi, just had a dismal 4CC and I wonder if anyone is calling her removal from the Worlds team.

If we get 2 spots, we get 2 spots. It's (slightly) bad for the TV network but the rest will go on with our lives, including the skaters themselves.

 

[feraina]

The thing about Mariah is somehow she's managed to learn how not to fall apart when something goes wrong at the beginning of her program (as has often happened to her 3-3). That has definitely helped her get decent results/scores all season despite the mistakes. She's been fairly successful with her 3-3 (with the half loop) in the second half, which also allows her to repeat the harder jumps instead of the 3t. And she has gorgeous spin and footwork, and she continues to sell her program no matter what. I think she's just becoming a more experienced competitor. Her problem is she has technical issues with her harder jumps, so they are not consistent even in practice. That's why Rafal said it's like going to Vegas. I hope they find a way to steady her technique on the 3-3 before the Olympic season.

I'm afraid we'll have to hope for good fortune to smile on her in order for her to place 8th or above.

Karen, I'm really not counting on at all. When has Tammy ever produced a reliable skater? Whether it's technical or mental, something is just consistently not quite right for her skaters.

 

[Sylvia]

Before Angela Wang won the gold (183.65) at the Bavarian Open, with her coach there (captioned "RyanSBradley, I just wanted a nice photo with you??? "): https://twitter.com/AngelaWangster/status/832314601266094081/photo/1
And here they are outside, after the comp.: https://www.instagram.com/p/BQwZ95jjlD9/

Fan cam of Wang's 1st place SP (she was the first of 27 to skate): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo2iHvAfTRQ
63.84 35.64 28.20 7.15 6.80 7.20 6.95 7.15 0.00 #1

FS, 1st place (fan cam starts after she had landed her opening 3Lo, 3F+2T & 3Lz): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z56G8DoumOw
119.81 58.85 60.96 7.65 7.40 7.75 7.60 7.70 0.00 #27