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U.S. Ladies [#10]: Always Believe in Gold

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

    I think part of that is also a difference in culture. Russians are known to speak their minds, and they don't hold anything back, even in interviews. The US media has evolved in such a way that all of these athletes have to pretty much say the same thing.
  2. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Just a quiet Sunday morning stream of consciousness:

    This feeds into the whole dynamic of many (not all) U.S. skaters appearing less 'real'. But, we get overly concerned in the U.S. by the things people say or at least the U.S. media perpetuates that by seizing on every drama. The idea being that, if a skater speaks their mind, it might 'hurt' the skater politically. So, probably skaters' teams warn them to watch their mouths /actions in public because it might leave them off the team in a close competition.

    But, that dovetails with the mentality of U.S. skaters and their coaching teams who have a tendency (again, not all U.S. skaters) to try to fit their skaters into a mold on the ice that may not necessarily work, but is perceived to be pleasing (and in some cases inoffensive) to international judges and the U.S. skating public. What this mentality fails to assess is that in an artistic sport like figure skating, forcing skaters to behave a certain way or skate a certain way that is not natural will kill any joy on the ice, influencing PCS and even impede the maximization of their technical talents: If you're not happy, you're not going to try as hard.

    Of course, there are U.S. skaters that do it their way, and skate to programs that showcase their personalities, but unfortunately they are head cases, get injured, etc.

    As stated, Euro / Russian skaters appear more likely to speak their mind(s) and that dovetails with them being themselves on the ice. It may be contributing to good results, at least from Russian ladies.

    Japanese men and women can lapse into a 'cookie-cutter' style, but their saving grace is their huge well of talent in the country that has begat some legends and is perpetuated by the popularity of the sport. Plus, they have men and ladies that for the most part perform well in clutch situations and a federation, while making some questionable decisions, seems to know how to identify stars and groom their skaters. Oh, it also helps that technical firepower seems to be a theme that Japanese skaters embrace.

    Not sure about our Canadian cousins. But, something is working up there at least in Pairs and Ice Dance. Being blessed with Chan helps, too.
  3. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Well-Known Member

    Really agree with this. American skaters get criticized for saying just about anything in the media . . . For example, the fuss over Jeremy's remarks about his critics during the Olympics . . . and the fuss about Ashley's negative reactions in the kiss 'n cry in Sochi. For every person who found Ashley's candor and honesty refreshing, there's a least one person prissily complaining about it . . . "Don't like the attitude!" said one commenter yesterday about Ashley on the TSL site. Yeah, okay.

    It's really difficult to win for the U.S. skaters. If they don't say anything, people complain they have no personality. Then if they do say something, everyone comes down on them for being bad sports or having an "attitude" or being too full of themselves or basically, not acting like a good little girl or boy.
  4. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    Actually, I think that's exactly the difference. Julia was mad at herself and very open to media that she is disappointed with herself that she didn't perform. Jeremy on the other hand was angry with his critics during the Olympics; instead of expressing how disappointed and angry he was at himself, he was angry at others who told him that he didn't do a good job. And Ashley, she just could not accept that she did not perform well enough; she made it clear that it was the judges who did not do proper job of giving her the marks she deserved and the politics and not her skating. It is not that US skaters 'can't win' with the media. Maybe if they were willing to blaming themselves instead of blaming others, the media and fans would not be so harsh.
  5. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

    Touche, hanca. Touche. Very fair point.
  6. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    It's true, though! You may not like it, but did Ashley say even once that she is disappointed with herself because she feels that she could have skated without the underrotations and double footing but that it was not her day? no! she said that she skated clean and does not understand why she was marked that low. I think she should rewatch the program before she speaks, if she suffers from memory problems and doesn't remember that she kept putting her foot down.
  7. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    Actually I think Ashley competed as well as she could regardless of what she said. She is not as naturally gifted as some others, nor is she a born skater skater like Yuka Sato. So given that, I think her competing ability is as good as anyone. In fact I'd say the same for maybe Flatt too (who of course shifted her priorities the last few years).
    I am not sure if we can tell how strong a competitor a person is based on "soundbites". I mean I don't remember Kwan going on and on about being mad at herself when something was wrong and yet she's a 5-time world champ.
    Having said that, yes, a skater like Plushenko does do angry very effectively and it works.
  8. becca

    becca Well-Known Member

    I actually think the US Media would appreciate Yulia's attitude. I enjoyed seeing her upset with her performance at Cup of Russia. Well I did not enjoy it. But I appreciated the fact that she cared as much about the skate as her results. It is refreshing to see someone take responsibility for their poor performance. She did not go on about it. But you could tell she was not happy with the skate even though "she won." It will serve her well. I think one could contrast with excuses that can be made.

    Michelle may not have openly said I am mad at myself but she would take responsibility. I recall her saying yes she skated safe in Nagano.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2014
    Messalina and Maximillian like this.
  9. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    And she also said she didnt lose gold; she won silver.

    One can always make sth out of these soundbites, depending on which piece you hear

  10. alexikeguchi

    alexikeguchi Well-Known Member

    I just got through watching Mirai's Japan Open performance and was really impressed with the emotion she showed. I didn't pay attention to the summer competitions and hadn't realized that she was skating to Madama Butterfly, but what a genius choice! She seems to really connect with the character of a woman chucked over for a newer, shinier version. If she can just keep this intensity while eking out another 1/4 rotation on her jumps, this could be worlds medal-worthy. The speed, skating skills, and amplitude are excellent, and the packaging is much better than anything the other US ladies are showing. Loved it!
  11. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

    Putting this here because I don't know where else to put it: Sasha Cohen's name showed up on the logic exam she was taking!


    For those who can't see it, she wrote, "And somehow I showed up on my logic exam today.... Extra credit?" and then posted a photo of a question about where she, Sarah, Michelle, and Irina finished in the 2002 Olympics, and how this violates something called "Arrow's conditions."
    cbd1235 and RockTheTassel like this.
  12. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

    What is the answer and what does it mean?
  13. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

  14. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

    I'm liking her professor :)
  15. Sylvia

    Sylvia Still recovering from Worlds...

    International Scores after the first 4 Senior B Challengers and 6 of 7 JGPs:

    5) 182.31 Gracie GOLD Nebelhorn Trophy 2014, bronze
    7) 176.35 Polina EDMUNDS U.S. International FS Classic 2014, gold
    9) 174.14 Courtney HICKS U.S. International FS Classic 2014, silver
    10) 170.26 Hannah MILLER CS Lombardia Trophy 2014, silver
    15) 160.95 Karen CHEN ISU JGP Czech Skate 2014, bronze
    17) 160.25 Angela WANG CS Lombardia Trophy 2014, bronze
    19) 159.49 Mirai NAGASU U.S. International FS Classic 2014, 5th
    28) 149.24 Leah KEISER ISU JGP Ljubljana Cup 2014, bronze
    32) 148.48 Mariah BELL Nebelhorn Trophy 2014, 5th
    34) 148.08 Amber GLENN ISU JGP Courchevel 2014, bronze
    38) 144.89 Bradie TENNELL ISU JGP Nagoya TV Cup 2014, 8th
    40) 142.95 Ashley CAIN O. Nepela Trophy 2014, bronze
    67) 125.42 Ashley SHIN U.S. International FS Classic 2014, 7th

    SP scores over 50 so far:
    63.27 Edmunds (USIC) 35.31 TES / 27.96 PCS
    61.82 Gold (Nebelhorn) 31.68 / 31.14 -1
    60.68 Chen (JGP CZE) 34.31 / 26.37
    58.90 Hicks (USIC) 31.70 / 27.20
    55.46 Nagasu (USIC) 27.90 / 27.56
    54.92 Tennell (JGP JPN) 31.61 / 23.31
    54.88 Wang (Lombardia) 30.80 / 24.08
    54.71 Glenn (JGP FRA) 30.79 / 24.92 -1
    54.05 Cain (Nepela) 29.29 / 25.76 -1
    51.43 Miller (Lombardia) 26.75 / 25.68 -1
    50.72 Bell (Nebelhorn) 26.27 / 24.45

    FS scores over 100 points:
    120.49 Gold (Nebelhorn) 56.00 TES / 64.49 PCS
    118.83 Miller (Lombardia) 64.59 / 54.24
    115.24 Hicks (USIC) 60.44 / 54.80
    113.08 Edmunds (USIC) 54.64 / 59.44 -1
    106.85 Nagasu (Japan Open) 51.96 / 55.89 -1
    105.37 Wang (Lombardia) 52.21 / 54.16 -1
    101.58 Keiser (JGP SLO) 55.70 / 45.88
    100.99 Wagner (Japan Open) 41.82 / 60.17 -1
    100.27 Chen (JGP CZE) 49.96 / 51.31 -1

    Competing this week: Samantha Cesario ( Finlandia Trophy) and Karen Chen (JGP Croatia).
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2014
    AliasJohnDoe likes this.
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia Still recovering from Worlds...

    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
    clairecloutier likes this.
  17. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Well-Known Member

    Hanna's report from practice at Finlandia:

    I am really hoping Sammi can do well at Finlandia and on the GP! :)
  18. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Cesario has a lot of charisma and potential for big PCS. She really needs to develop stamina and speed, though
  19. clairecloutier

    clairecloutier Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, that may be quite a challenge this season as she's coming back from mononucleosis. It seems logical that would negatively affect both stamina and speed . . . Still, I'll hope for the best!
  20. Maximillian

    Maximillian Well-Known Member

    Just watched Chen for the first time at Zagreb. Is she competing Senior at Nats? If so, she could take the 3rd spot. And I don't say this as hype, just watching what she did and assume that she won't have a growth spurt over the next 4 months.
    AxelAnnie likes this.
  21. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

    Chen can't compete as a senior until next year, internationally I mean.
  22. burntBREAD

    burntBREAD Active Member

    Karen has a tendency to struggle more in her FS (had a poor skate in her first JGP). Her spins and gigantic lutzes are great though!
    Maximillian likes this.
  23. Meoima

    Meoima Well-Known Member

    Her SP was great, but FS... I wish her best luck.
  24. Maximillian

    Maximillian Well-Known Member

    Good to know about Chen. Like I said, I don't mean to hype her, but she really seems to be a very complete skater for one so young. I much preferred watching her to say Radionova, whose all elbows and knees at this point.
  25. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    It's not uncommon for skaters to have the sp ready and the lp semi ready early fall, so Chen's lp can get better as season progresses.
    I think barring injury she is very likely to go to jr world, along with another lady but it's hard to say who that is, since no one else looked well enough to compete with the Jpn and Russian ladies.

    At the senior levels, any skaters prone to flutzes and urs are at a natural disadvantage (now that fluzes got a bigger deduction), and that group includes Mirai, Cain and Cesario. BUT USFSA could send another lenient caller to US nationals again and completely ignore flutzes and urs like they did before. BUt Right now, I can see Hicks being in the mix just going by tes potential.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
  26. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

    Flutzing has become like kryptonite to superman.

    I'm not unhappy about it, but DAYUM!
  27. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    BTW, Cesario just won the silver at Finlandia, pulling herself up from 5th after the SP. Only Tuk was in front of her. Good job especially after being sidelined w/ Mono
    crankyintheAM likes this.
  28. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

    Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ro_2irtsQE

    Protocol: http://www.figureskatingresults.fi/results/1415/CSFIN2014/CSFIN2014_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
    :40beers: And full credit for the new trick, 3loop1loop3sal! (which is odd because both jumps looked short even in real time to me). Great effort for this time of the season, with 6 rotated triples, 1 UR-ed one and 1 2axel.

    She must pay attention to the spins however. She is missing levels because she isn't holding her positions long enough. That combination spins is clearly problematic for her on the second leg.

    Love the changes that were made to the program. What a beautiful skate. And she seems to be covering more ice. The PCS should have been higher.
    kwanatic likes this.
  29. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

    I am wondering if that is a stamina issue related to having mono earlier this year. Holding those positions, as you know, takes a lot of work. Hopefully as she gets stronger she will get the levels on her spins.
    falling_dance likes this.
  30. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    looking at Cesario's protocols, I wonder if she would consider a 3f - 2x seq. in the 2d half of the LP. She normally did a 3l- 2x seq. and it might squeeze out a couple of more points. I agree though that the issue for her here was the levels were not where they need to be but that is easier to fix than jump problems

    ETA -

    I uncovered this note from Gracie to Frank-

    It says 'Frank, talk to the hand! I'm tired of being a Disney ice princess, Stepford Wife or whatever the hell it is you are turning me into. I'm just letting you know that I'm dyeing my hair, putting on a unitard and changing my music from that played out Phantom of the Opera Sarah Brightman crap to Frankie Goes to Hollywood's 'Two Tribes'. I'm also going to jump so high and skate so fast your old eyes won't even see me. So there! Not only that, but I've been watching those Russian girls and decided to chack the pageant smile and glare at the audience whenever I feel like it . It's called 'emotion' Frank. Oh and be prepared for some straight talk. I never liked that Ashley chick very much, always touching me like we're BFF's in the group Kiss n Cry! Bleh!
    Get ready for some Euro Diva Frank!

    See you at practice Monday. I was going to insert a smiley face here , but no
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014
    Tavi, Maximillian, nlloyd and 5 others like this.