1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi all! No longer will threads be closed after 1000 (ish) messages. We may close if one gets so long to cause an issue and if you would like a thread closed to start a new one after a 1000 posts then just use the "Report Post" function. Enjoy!

Tonya Harding's skating

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by lulu, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. manleywoman

    manleywoman podcast mistress

    I don't know if any of my contacts have her info. I think she's a bit out of the skating circles now. But I can give it a shot.
  2. bardtoob

    bardtoob Former Choreographer for Anna Maria Tragikova

    Having been know to have very strong and passionate opinions myself, I suggest all those involved in this spirited thread keep in mind that FSU is supposed to be fun ... Fun by sharing a common interest.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  3. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    ^^ Fun? Yeah sometimes it can be a laugh riot, and a place to share a love of skating and skaters, or shoot the breeze on all manner of topics. Posters can be polite and thoughtful, helpful and sharing, funny and generous, or petty, snarky and argumentative. There are threads dealing with very serious topics, and lots of silly polls and fun threads and entertaining threads, you name it. Often there are heated arguments over things great and small. Figure skating is definitely a crazy sport. I have found myself saying on more than one occasion: Figure skating, I wish I could quit you! Same goes for FSU. :lol: I learn a lot, and sometimes not. Yep, I plead guilty to being opinionated and long-winded. :p

    Probably most figure skating fans are "passionate," or they simply aren't avid followers of the sport. ;)

    I mean seriously, it can get pretty serious and spirited even in ridiculous poll threads, especially any having anything to do with S/P vs B/S, and the list goes on. :rollin:

    Right, the ISU doesn't "train" skaters, but obviously the rules they set affect how skaters are trained, in addition to myriad other impacts. I'm sure ISU officials have at least some interest and concern regarding how young athletes are trained. If they don't, I believe they should.

    IMO, there is no question that the ISU rule eliminating figures from competition adversely affected proper edge technique for a generation of skaters. It may have been necessary to eliminate figures from competition due to the demands of television and the high cost of ice time for figures practice. However, I still feel that figures should have been maintained as a separate discipline, and that young skaters should still be required to learn figures as a basic foundation of their training.

    Good luck manleywoman, and thanks! Perhaps if Tonya has mellowed and reached a point where she's let go of bitterness, maybe she would be willing to talk about her skating in a fun and relaxed way, without dwelling on the negative drama. She tried to come back into the fold one year with the assistance of others who were interested in helping her or who were interested in promoting a professional skating event. It didn't work out for her in any lasting way. I suppose shortly afterward she began to train as a boxer (and then a wrestler?) in order to make a living.
  4. Mafke

    Mafke Well-Known Member

    Harding's tragedy was that the problems in her attitude were most likely coping mechanisms that she developed to deal with a dysfunctional home situation and not character flaws as such.

    But the coping mechanisms that allow a person to not give up and remain partly sane (despite the insanity around them) can't simply be given up when somebody else decides they're not needed.

    Without the stubbornness and disregard for decorum and other people's opinions she never would have gotten as far as she did. But they also kept her from being able to fulfill her full potential. I'm not sure what could have helped her balance that and let the dysfunction go. It's just a shame that (from everything I can tell) people around her thought she could control aspects of her personality that she couldn't.

    USFSA's attitude toward her seemed to alternate between pretending she was from a normal background to annoyance at her apparent ingratitude at their indulgence.

    (to paraphrase from Pink):

    "You'll be a big star,
    All you have to change
    is everything you are."

    It ain't that easy.
  5. Kwantumleap

    Kwantumleap Well-Known Member

    Yulia Lavrenchuk? Mira Leung? I'm no teknik, but I sometimes found Slutskaya's stroking to be labored. Similar to Lavrenchuk, it could have been because of the hunching back position.

    Thanks for posting the definition. I think the reason people get confused by the terminology is because a skater can glide across the ice very quickly and still not be considered to have good flow. It might be easier to call it edging or stroking rather than flow since impressive ice coverage and speed can be achieved without demonstrating proper stroking technique.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  6. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

  7. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

    Mafke, you spoke for me.
    Tonya's is one of the most tragic "what might have been" stories I've ever known.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  8. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

    AZE? :shuffle:
    bardtoob and (deleted member) like this.
  9. BreakfastClub

    BreakfastClub Active Member

    Agree. It's blasphemy to say Kostner but it was easy to be so blinded by her speed that you didn't notice her flow issues when she was younger, and even back then I was the first to say her glide was the best I'd seen since Gordeeva. Her strokes were sometime really short (both forward and backward) and she took a more strokes than she really should have needed (for her talent with run of the blade) and with sometimes awkward posture. Loved her spiral, but hated the running, choppy forward crossovers that she'd use to gather up the speed into it. She'd mostly cleaned these issues by 2006-2007 or so but her older programs make me cringe at some of the choppy stroking. (Like for example: http://youtu.be/TPBK-FkhOCg?t=1m55s or http://youtu.be/PT7LH6WYdQw?t=36s and here http://youtu.be/PT7LH6WYdQw?t=1m10s)

    I think you could post parts of many Tara Lipinski programs through 1996 as a poster child for poor flow. She featured a lot of toe pushing, forward strokes with horrible posture, and moments where she just pushed side to side like a hockey player. :scream: (http://youtu.be/gI028GwtNds?t=2m53s) Callaghan & team fixed most of this by the time she won in 1998 but she still had somewhat labored forward stroking.

    Elena Sokolova had terrible stroking, probably the worst I've seen of any female World medalist in the last two decades. Among current skaters near are recently near the top, Marakova and Flatt have issues at points in their programs. I definitely saw more of it with Flatt last year as she was less prepared and fit than in the past. :slinkaway
    bardtoob and (deleted member) like this.
  10. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

    I would probably name Yuka Sato as the female skater with the best "flow" and edge quality from the 1988-94 period but then again, the judges weren't necessarily rewarding that vs. a triple lutz (unless that judge was Vanessa Riley).

    Most of the top lady skaters from that era couldn't combine speed + long edges + good carriage/posture (they usually had 2 of the 3 qualities, but not all 3).
    bardtoob and (deleted member) like this.
  11. lulu

    lulu New Member

    I greatly prefer Tonya's skating to Nancy, but I feel that the "perfect pretty princess" image was one that was forced on her by the media, etc. rather than one she actively sought herself. I remember reading on another forum that Nancy wanted to be a hockey player, but her mother wanted her to try a more "graceful" sport.
  12. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    ^^ Interesting, lulu. I recall also that being the sole girl in her family with older brothers that Nancy was more of an athletic tomboy with toothsome grin and gapped front teeth than a pretty princess. In her tomboyish bent Nancy indeed was kinda like Katherine Hepburn in more than just looks. That Vera Wang dress at 1992 Olympics was classic and iconic. The judges would have given Nancy the World in 1993, but she flubbed it and the jump technique-challenged orphan survivor Baiul, with to-die-for grace and long limbs captured the judges' hearts edging out Bonaly of amazing jumps, bare legs and such terribly awful "poor" skating skills, and a rockin' backflip, landed on one leg! :p

    Thanks Mafke for your comments. Exactly! As I mentioned earlier, Tonya indeed "coped the way she unfortunately learned how to cope." Interesting lyrics from Pink.

    Here are a few from Tracy Chapman:

    I had a feeling I could be someone, be someone --Fast Car

    If you knew that you would die today
    If you saw the face of God and love
    Would you change? Would you change?

    If you knew that love can't break your heart
    When you're down so low you cannot fall
    Would you change would you change?
    How bad how good does it need to get?
    How many losses how much regret?

    What chain reaction
    What cause and effect
    Makes you turn around
    Makes you try to explain
    Makes you forgive and forget
    Makes you change Makes you change

    If you knew that you could be alone
    Knowing right being wrong
    Would you change? Would you change?
    If you knew that you would find a truth
    That brings a pain that can't be soothed
    Would you change would you change?

    -- Change
  13. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    She is one of the best ever. Her knee action is so amazing. :)
  14. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    ^^ So maybe they should have contrasted Yuka Sato's amazing "flow" against the choppy strides of the young Carolina Kostner, before she learned how to improve her strides. :)
  15. Shyjosie

    Shyjosie Well-Known Member

    Thank you, Mafke, this is so true and I so absolutely agree.
    This is certainly true for Tonya, and not only for her.
    People don't choose to be difficult. They are labelled difficult due to what is normal and commonly accepted in the community they live in.
    Pink's song lyrics are so telling.
  16. escaflowne9282

    escaflowne9282 Reformed Manspreader

    Nah! :p ;)
  17. falling_dance

    falling_dance Coaching Patrick

    You don't love this performance, escaflowne9282?
  18. escaflowne9282

    escaflowne9282 Reformed Manspreader

    The sad part is, if it meant skating were regularly going to be shown on TV again, I'd actually watch it again .

    Although, I'd hope she would wear a hat this time . ::hat1:
  19. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    What is the problem with that program, LOL ?
    I'm not fond of it, but I have the feeling this program is hated here, and I don't see why !
    Can someone explain to me ? :drama:
  20. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

    That would be awesome.

    Much as I love the question as an icebreaker, don't ask Harding what her most embarrassing skating moment was, or she may do a Lindsay Lohan and end the interview then and there.
  21. Clay

    Clay Well-Known Member

    you rock so hard for somehow bringing in a reference to "hat full of stars":rockstar:

    briancoogaert- It was performed back when skating was on TV virtually every week (maybe less so than 1995, but still). It felt like we saw it every day though. The song is so cheesy. I believe one FSUr hated it more than everyone else (TASO?) and I'm pretty sure the term "Generic Female Ballad" originated from this number.
  22. Clay

    Clay Well-Known Member

    ...or do a Tonya Harding. She ended an interview with Connie Chung (what happened to her) once in 1994.
  23. escaflowne9282

    escaflowne9282 Reformed Manspreader

    It was just incredibly overused.Back in the days when skating was shown in the US very regularly, it was on literally every week. She kept it for at least two professional cycles, too. It didn't help that it was the most generic combination of all that is bland. While I've never been fond of her skating, Yuka has done much better programs than that as both a professional and an amateur .
  24. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

    Someone posted a link to the program. Now watch it 100 times in a row. Then you'll understand why.

    Many skaters during the boom accepted every invite and skated to the same program over and over. But it seemed Yuka used this program for much longer. Like Kadavy and "It's All Coming Back to Me Now".
  25. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    OK, I see now !
    But in France, we never saw this program ! That's why I didn't understand. Of course, I've watched it since (thanks to soulseek, rinkside, ...). But I didn't watch it 100 times because it's really not my favorite ! lol
  26. escaflowne9282

    escaflowne9282 Reformed Manspreader

  27. Taso

    Taso Well-Known Member

    Oh I TOTALLY HATED THAT PROGRAM!!!! Possibly the most boring program I have ever seen! EVER! IN 18 YEARS OF WATCHING THIS SPORT THAT ISN'T ALWAYS THAT INTERESTING :fragile:

    And Esca, she kept it for THREE seasons :fragile: :fragile: :fragile:

    And NEVER was there even a hat. Heck, there was never even a star
  28. escaflowne9282

    escaflowne9282 Reformed Manspreader

    There was a semi- star :scream:. She had this totally unbecoming pageboy/pixie cut hairstyle ,too. :scream:(all the more reason she needed a hat)

    Three seasons? I remember seeing it in 98-99 and 99-00. She used it after that?

    I have to agree it was the most boring program ever. It was also probably the most generic song I had ever heard.
    I remember discussing our mutual hatred of this program back in the day.

    Oh memories...
  29. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    The song is awful on first hearing and especially on repeat hearings, but the skating is divine. :)
  30. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    Yes ! :swoon:
    I guess that's why I probably never really pay attention to her musics !