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This year's SD: Compulsory dance less well integrated?

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by barbk, Oct 8, 2011.

  1. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

    Now that I've seen this year's SD routines from quite a number of top dancers, including V&M, the compulsory segment looks badly pasted in for all of the couples. I don't remember it looking this "fake" last year, and I wonder why it doesn't seem to fit at all well this year?

    I rather liked the new SD format before now. Are there some rhythms that just fit better than others, or is this more of an "early season" issue -- or a figment of my imagination?
  2. Allen

    Allen Glad to be back!

    I personally don't feel that the Rhumba was a good compulsory for a SD. The Golden Waltz had more highlight moves and seemed less, well, compulsory. Every time I see the Rhumba segments, they seem really obvious and not like there was a possibility that they are part of the choreography.

    I also dislike the fact that the segments can be broken up and not done consecutively.
  3. Hedwig

    Hedwig WoolSilk Fanatic

    funny that this should come up - it is exactly what I wrote yesterday in the Junior Grand Prix forum:

    "What bothers me so much about the SD this year is that very few couples (at least on the Junior scene) seem to make a smooth transition from the compulsory part to the free part. It is always this relief - ha, finished and now we can rock - moment after one compulsory part that bugs me a lot.
    It shouldn't be that noticeable and just shows how much more difficult the part is for most couples and that they really slow down in it."

    so, yeah. I agree.

    I also hate that the pattern can be broken up in two parts. Not only is it easier that way but it also disrupts the dance even more.
  4. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

    I blame the "breaking into 2 parts" rules too.. BAD IDEA.
  5. Erica Lee

    Erica Lee New Member

    I honestly had the opposite reaction watching some of this year's SDs. Granted I've only watched 3 or 4 of them, but I found the compulsory sections better integrated and because the 2 patterns could be split, I found it to be much less of "original dance... okay now we have to do this compulsory... wooo now we can do what we want again". I found the choreo a lot less predictable.

    I do agree that the rhumba steps are simple compared to what couples are generally doing in the rest of this SD, so yes, those sections do stand out... but I never really thought of it as a bad thing.

    Overall, really enjoying the SDs this year :shuffle:
  6. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

    This is exactly why I don't like them this season. That and the fact that very few couples display a Latin feel.
  7. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Hates both vegemite and peanut butter

    Honestly I have seen any senior SDs but I have seen some of the Junior. I think the Cha Cha works okay because there are lots of steps in it. The Golden Waltz is also a very steppy dance. And both dances move in and out from the barrier to the midline. Also those dances take time getting around.

    But probably with the Rhumba, you have very few steps which cover a lot of ice in pretty much a straight line, and it really is only a half ice dance (one sequence is half the ice). Plus it probabably only take approximately 10 seconds to do one sequence of the ice. So only 20-25 seconds of your whole dance will be the CD part. The Golden Waltz is much longer (probably a minute to get around the whole dance).

    So without actually having seen it, I can totally understand why it would look weird.
  8. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

    I don't like the SD in general. It's very much a want-your-cake-and-eat-it-too type decisions.

    SLIVER Well-Known Member

    The ISU don't care that it's badly pasted on, it's just an excuse to eventually get rid of the compulsory totally. We will eventually get a communication that says that the compulsory is not working in the OD and they will erase it totally.

    It was the same lame excuse the ISU used to get rid of the compulsory dance segment. They said it was the IOC who wanted a shorter skating schedule, which everyone knew was b.s. So concerened were the IOC by the length of the skating events that they went and accepted a whole team competition lol!

    If there was any serious thought of keeping the compulsory semi alive, it would be 4 sequences of the rumba, not 2, and certainly not split apart. The whole skill of the dance lies in the pattern repetition and having the strength with such few steps to keep the speed, edging and pattern going.

    Finally what are these absurd 'levels' attributed to the patterns?? Why couldn't the dance just have a base value with GOEs, why do we have to invent these silly rules to glue some fabricated levels onto a compulsory dance? The whole thing is ludicrous.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2011
  10. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Hates both vegemite and peanut butter

    ^ I totally agree.
  11. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

  12. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

    I couldn't believe how poorly integrated the first CD sequence is in V&M's OD.

    They're freaking Olympic champions and the best they can do is awkwardly shove a Rhumba sequence into the opening of last year's FD? :rolleyes:

    I have yet to see D&W and P&B, but what I've seen from V&M, S&S, B&S, I&K, R&T, etc is really uninspiring.

    At least last year there was some variety and originality in the approach teams took with the waltz.
  13. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Hates both vegemite and peanut butter

    I just watched V&M's SD and I felt the biggest issue with the Rhumba parts was they absolutely added nothing at all to the dance. At least a dance like the Golden Waltz can really test the skaters but it did work as a part of the SD. But incorporating the Rhumba here makes it look like it was thrown in as an afterthought. And when you have the complexity of all the other elements and choreography, it just slows down the pace and feeling and actually doesn't mean anything.

    Here is V&M's SD.

  14. CoralReef

    CoralReef Member

    I think this was a concern when the senior pattern dance was announced this year. The ice dance version of the Rhumba is so different from the ballroom version, that it just doesn't seem to integrate well into a latin program. It's surprising to see such low level calls as well from some of the top teams.

    I kind of like the junior SD's better with the Cha Cha Congelado.
  15. OrioleBeagle

    OrioleBeagle AARROOOO!!!

    The Rhumba looks awkward in ice dancing.
  16. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Hates both vegemite and peanut butter

    I agree about the Cha Cha. It has a lot more meat to it and the skaters can really attack it and give it something.

    As for calling it with levels, what's to call? The main highlight of the dance is the choctaw (which is what makes it difficult as a compulsory) but there is probably not a lot else. But any senior team should make it look easy through.

    I think regardless of how much I felt it doesn't work, I did think V&M did those sections very well. They are such good ice dancers.
  17. literaryfreak

    literaryfreak Well-Known Member

    I thought the non-touching circular step sequence could include the skaters crossing each other - weaving in and out between each other (as we sometimes see in the non-touching midline) - but I haven't seen any SDs with that just yet. Maybe it's too hard for skaters to do that in a circular pattern?
  18. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

    Ooh that could be amazing!!
  19. Tammi

    Tammi Nana

    Here you go http://www.youtube.com/user/Tatjana2541#p/u/41/MyozuMcwAUc, starts at about 1:13. I imagine it is more difficult for the skaters to judge the spacing between them when it's in a circular pattern. For the higher scores, I think the judges look for the team to maintain a close distance and not drift more than 2 arm lengths away.
  20. literaryfreak

    literaryfreak Well-Known Member

    Thank you! I love how it looks here, with them skating in huge curves through each other's paths, even if they are a bit too far apart at times. Perhaps my favorite circular step sequence I've seen so far. I see why most teams would avoid it. Still, I would love to see a top senior team attempt something like this - I think it would really show off bladework skills.
  21. Morelli

    Morelli New Member

    I really don't like that circular step sequence. Gone is the symmetry that you get in a straight line sequence when in this one of the 2 is on the outside circle and one on the inner. I can't imagine anyone really making this work well.
  22. L'amour

    L'amour New Member

    I have seen some SDs from junior and senior team and all i can think is "what a hell was that??!!" The Rhumba pattern is out there, kind of lost among nonsense latin moves like "oh I'm sexy". I like the idea of the circukar step sequence, but nothing different or ecxiting appear yet.

    The Rhumba SD was a bad idea, I wish they had choose Blues or Polka.
  23. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

    Yeah I feel the same. I give them credit for trying something new, but the sbs steps seemed to have stronger impact going straight across the ice, especially when teams did them very well.

    I also agree that the Cha Cha is a far better CD to have for the SD. I actually enjoyed a few of the junior team's SDs this year becuase of the Cha Cha section and how it was integrated into the rest of the dance.
  24. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    I love the Rhumba (the compulsory dance). But it seems really difficult to integrate it into a whole program. Is it because of the music : skaters use a slow section to put the CD part. But the original music is not slow. :confused:
  25. ItalianFan

    ItalianFan Active Member


    Nothing wrong with the rhumba but you gotta know how to dance it!
  26. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

    I am really hating this year's SD - the only one I've seen that I sort of liked was R/T, which for me was the best of the worst so far.

    All those abrupt changes of music is so jarring - I think the SD would have worked so much better if they had just done a rhumba, and incorporated the CD into that.

    All my favorite SD from last year just used the waltz rhythm and didnt try to mix it with something else. I/K was the only wango I liked. I was really hoping more couples would learn that lesson and stick to one rhythm for this SD. A rhumba can make a really great dance when choreographed well [check the link above for T/D]. I liked other rhumbas from that Olympics too.

    I think incorporating the CD parts into a straight rhumba dance would have made it seem less jarring, and if you look at the CNTSS for R/T - they are the only couple so far that really seem to be dancing with each other as they go through it.

    Another problem with this SD is that so far to me none of them have seemed really latin - a lot of shaking yeah - but no real latin feeling. And no real standout SD for me so far.

    I really wish Jana was competing this year - her rhumba would have been :swoon::swoon:
  27. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

  28. L'amour

    L'amour New Member

  29. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

    Hmm... this would have been a good year to introduce the "Rhumba D'Amour" CD that was being experimented with a few seasons ago.
  30. Judy

    Judy Active Member

    I'm not sure I'll ever be a fan of the SD .. I miss the OD ..