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The Mom Gene--do you have it?

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by IceAlisa, Sep 28, 2012.

  1. susan6

    susan6 Well-Known Member

    The GROWTH rate is declining, but the population will still increase until the rate drops to zero (basically one child born for every one person that dies, which would maintain the population at the level it is at when that happens). What will the global population level off at? Nine billion? 12 billion?

    The only way we're sustaining the population we currently have (7 billion and growing) is by supercharging the soil with chemicals so it can grow more crops than it would naturally. Unfortunately, chemical fertilizers are not absorbed as well as natural fertilizers, so there's a lot of run off when it rains. When the rain washes the excess fertilizer into rivers and then into oceans, it causes algae blooms which use up the oxygen in the water which kills the fish. There are significant and growing "dead zones" in oceans around the world. Which is nature's way of saying there's already too many people.
  2. numbers123

    numbers123 Well-Known Member

    I think that it is important to listen to your heart. I know a lot of people who are human childless, but are wonderful parents to their animal children. Nurturing gene doesn't necessarily mean infants/children, the world needs all of us.
    cholla and (deleted member) like this.
  3. suep1963

    suep1963 Well-Known Member

    You are just starting a new chapter--and still figuring out who you are and what you want. So questions like this are normal. Take your time, enjoy (and revel in) your "me time" without guilt. (you have my permission! :))
  4. Southpaw

    Southpaw Saint Smugpawski

    And m_m, you have my permission not to have kidlets if you don't want 'em. ;)
  5. Prancer

    Prancer Slave to none, master to all Staff Member

    Current prediction is somewhere around 10.

    Yes, we discuss this at length as well. But we also talk about how there is much more food than is necessary to sustain everyone on the planet and and how people in the US waste on average 40% of the food they buy.

    So again, it's not really population--it's distribution. Not that I expect distribution to change a whole lot, although the prediction is that as our population grays, we will start importing people from developing countries to work in significant numbers, which will shift things some.

    I've heard that stat for a couple of states in New England, but never for the US overall. I think the last accurate measure there was around 42% for first marriages for woen, but it's hard to say since the government stopped keeping track and most data now comes from surveys, which are not as accurate and so tend to vary widely. The 42% figure applied only for women up to age 44, and divorce rates go up quite a bit when women hit their 50s, for example, so that's not a good lifetime rate.
  6. numbers123

    numbers123 Well-Known Member

  7. Bunny Hop

    Bunny Hop Perpetually learning Dutch Waltz

    A good friend of mine used to regularly come into work and offer the rest of us her son because he was "being Satan" that day. :lol: She is the most honest mother I know. She shares the good and the bad of parenthood in equal measure, which is quite a refreshing change from the 'it's all wonderful' message that a large number (not all!) parents seem to try and give.
    This is something I had trouble communicating to a former colleague of mine. She just didn't get that I really felt neutral about babies and small children. Didn't think they were cute or ugly, they were just babies, and I didn't feel anything in particular about them. On the other hand, show me a picture of a kitten and I'll be all "Oooh! What a cute kitty!"
    I do know what you mean, but even in my childfree state, I am prepared to say that mother nature does tend to take care of that sort of thing. My mother always says "it's different when it's your own" and I believe her because she's not particularly maternal (don't get me wrong, she was a good mother, but I take after her in terms of lack of maternal instinct).
    Angela-Fan and (deleted member) like this.
  8. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

    Yeah, this describes me perfectly. My mother and sister both cannot understand this to save their lives. My cousin has two small girls, one is a baby, and all summer she kept trying to get me to hold the baby and I kept insisting I had no desire to do so and it actually upset her. Show me a cat, though, and I will happily play with and hold the kitty. That makes me happy.

    I understand that she wants grandchildren, but my sister is absolutely going to give her many of those. Why I apparently need to do so as well is totally beyond me.
  9. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

    The 50s was actually one of the worst times for mothers in North American. Many women who enjoying working for income during the war found themselves housewives afterwards - their jobs were gone and there was an expectation that women would stay home. Plus, one of the consequences of industrial advancement was that the women of that time actually did more housework than the previous generation. Television advertising intensified the pressure to keep a perfect house and was oriented to housewives who were constantly in and out of the living or rec room. Suburban life was in, extended families were out, and women were to a certain extent isolated at home in their biological family. And there were all sorts of new appliances and cleaning products to help women keep homes that met middle-class standards.

    Plus, those were the days of Dr. Spock telling women how to be good mothers - women's wisdom on the matter came second as parenting standards became stringent.

    I saw a Good Housekeeping column from the late 50s or early 60s some time ago. It was scary - advised women to 'do a once over of the house before he comes home to make sure it is perfect' and to 'remember, his problems are more important than yours'.

    Yes, the well-to-do had nannies, but there was a huge population of middle class housewives at the time. They were first and foremost housewives and everything else came second. My mom and many of my friends' moms were quite frustrated with their lots in life. Especially since their husbands didn't contribute to childcare and housework. Those women were on their feet for at least 12 hours a day.

    Betty Friedan eventually coined the term 'the problem with no name' to describe what a lot of women at the time were going the depression. And doctors were liberally prescribing valium to women with the 'problem'.
  10. snoopy

    snoopy Team St. Petersburg

    I wonder if it is more the isolation effect of modern society, rather than the cost, that deters women from having children. It seems that women part of reliable communities - religious or otherwise - are more comfortable having multiple children. My dad laments the impact of the modern job market - people have to move away for jobs - which makes having an extended family (and the related support) nearly impossible. e. g. there are four of us kids total in my family and we all live in different states.

    This isn't a motherly issue reallly, but I am terrble at remembering birthdays and doing thank you cards. I always knew this from when I was little and thought I really shouldn't ever be a mom, because that seemed to be job one for mothers. Keeping organized and thoughtful at the same time. If it wasn't for the dotted i's and crossed t's, I think I'd really like being a mom.
  11. Aceon6

    Aceon6 Hit ball, find ball, hit it again.

    ^^^ This Japanfan. I grew up in a post WWII development. My mother was the oddball in the neighborhood who worked, yet she was expected to have floors clean enough to eat off of and to completely eliminate the grime from my father's work clothes. Remember the "ring around the collar" commercials? It was the woman's job to get rid of the problem, not the man's to shower!
  12. TygerTyger

    TygerTyger Well-Known Member

    Update: The next woman to tell me I'm so lucky that I "get" to stay home with my kids, is going to die a horrible death of a most gruesome variety.

    Prancer: you are not accounting for the role of religious fundamentalism on population, both domestically and internationally. Also, Monsanto is doing its best to feed us all round up, and aren't we overdue for a good plague?
  13. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member


    Well, TygerTyger, you ARE indeed lucky if you don't have to juggle the way so many woman to do survive and support their families by not only working, but also being the sole provider and caretaker for their children. The grass is always greener.

    I'm certainly not saying you should feel happy and satisfied as a stay-at-home mom. I know I wouldn't! And it probably doesn't help to point out that things could always be worse, but that's the reason why folks may tell you you're lucky -- because, in truth, lots of folks may envy your position over their own.

    Habs and (deleted member) like this.
  14. TygerTyger

    TygerTyger Well-Known Member

    And you are lucky not to be in my living room right now.

    Being unable to leave the house EVER, because you cannot afford care does not make me "lucky."

    Is "it could always be worse" ever a helpful thing to say to someone isolated and overwhelmed?
    Hedwig, LynnW, Angela-Fan and 5 others like this.
  15. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

    Eh, look at the number of parents who abuse, abandon or neglect their kids. It wasn't different when it was their own.
  16. TygerTyger

    TygerTyger Well-Known Member

    In our small city, there is a large Hispanic population.
    It is a wonderful thing to watch extended families working together, and friends helping friends. I know that a lot of toys and clothing get passed around as well.
    I do, at times, feel a bit sad for the teenage girls saddled with the care for younger brothers and sisters - but I would imagine that such siblings generally enjoy close lifelong relationships?
    LOL though - last month I was at the park with my guys, and I got to talking to several such teens who were babysitting younger siblings. Those girls were pretty darn clear that they wanted 1-3 kids, and not the 5-7 of their parent's generation!
    numbers123 and (deleted member) like this.
  17. vesperholly

    vesperholly Well-Known Member

    Do you have a lot of small ones? Or no car? I'm asking honestly. I see babies and small children out and about all the time, though I'm sure it's a hassle.
  18. TygerTyger

    TygerTyger Well-Known Member

    Two under 18m on completely different schedules.
  19. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

    Ireland has a higher birthrate than France. Every sperm is sacred, and all that.
  20. TygerTyger

    TygerTyger Well-Known Member

    Personally, I feel that half the problem would be solved by shipping the Sears clan to Siberia.
  21. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

    Congrats on all the sex.
  22. TygerTyger

    TygerTyger Well-Known Member

    Second child was a nephew that we adopted ;)
  23. cruisin

    cruisin Banned Member

    I never gushed over babies either. I wasn't sure I wanted children, when I was younger. It wasn't until I was around 30, that I realized that I did want children. Whatever the research says, when my babies were born and placed in my arms, the love I felt was overwhelming and powerful. Something I didn't know I was capable of feeling so intensely. So, I don't think you have to be baby crazy as a child to adore and nurture your own children s an adult.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2012
  24. heckles

    heckles Well-Known Member

    Congrats on the good deed, then!
  25. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Hates both vegemite and peanut butter

    I think my sister is regretting being a mother today. She is taking her daughter to the Tinkerbell movie. Luckily Aunties only have the responsibility for taking nieces and nephews to cool movies.
  26. Hannahclear

    Hannahclear Well-Known Member

    That sucks. I'm sorry.
  27. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

    Perhaps not, but that's what a lot of women are thinking. And that's what I was trying to get across in my post to you. You've been told a number of times that you are lucky (so many times, in fact, that you've joked about wishing such people horrible deaths). Others tell you this because they feel they have it much worse. (Hence my "grass is greener" comment.) I have no idea what your situation is like. I was just trying to give you some insight into the whys behind other folks commenting that you are lucky.

    This is obviously a very sensitive subject for you, and I hit a nerve. I wouldn't have responded if I didn't think your original post was to be taken somewhat "tongue in cheek." I doubt you wish anyone dead, for instance. Sorry you feel your situation is so grim. I hope you and your family are healthy. That's a great place to start. Time will pass and getting the kids out and about will become easier. Then, they'll be off to school and you will hopefully see more freedom and be happier.

  28. TygerTyger

    TygerTyger Well-Known Member

    The thing is, none of the women who say things like this to me are struggling financially. Each of them could afford to take a few years off of work if they so desire.
    But, they don't want to! Which, of course, is perfectly fine - or at least it should be! Unfortunately, enter the "Mommy Wars" and Bill Sears...
    Women are made to feel guilty for wanting to go back to work. So they make excuses for going back, and tell themselves that they would *prefer* to stay home. If only they *could* (sigh).
    My SIL just loves to tell me that she envies me so much. She wishes she could afford to stay home. She even has the option of going part time for a few years, but "can't" do that either - 'cause, well, then their household income might fall below $200k for a few years.
  29. TygerTyger

    TygerTyger Well-Known Member

    Thanks :)
    They are both walking a bit now, and starting to do a lot more. I'm sure that things will vastly improve in a year or so. It is just getting there...
  30. Southpaw

    Southpaw Saint Smugpawski

    I don't have any kids but having been an audience member to more than a few mommy conversations over the years it just cracks me up at how much mommies all HATE each other. Holy crap, they can't STAND each other and yet they sit there and smile and pretend to like each other and pretend to like each others' kids just because nobody wants to be ostracized from the playdate circuit and then they turn around and lecture their kids about being honest about their feelings. The kid needs to be honest but mommy? Nope. Mommy can't be honest, mommy must sit there with clenched jaw and take it. At least when I'm at a mixed gathering and a mommy starts yammering at me about stuff that makes me nutso I can simply walk away from her and go talk to her husband instead without any social fallout. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. Not the mommies, though. If they hightail it away from a mommy the way I do they may as well be booking a one-way ticket to Siberia for their kid.

    And then sometimes the mommies will tell me how lucky I am that I don't have to deal with any of that and I say nope, not lucky at all. This is nothing but a result of strategic decisions and birth control.
    jamesy and (deleted member) like this.