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The Mao cheer thread #3 - "For the love of skating"

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by rosewood, Aug 16, 2016.

  1. kittyjake5

    kittyjake5 Well-Known Member

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  2. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Well-Known Member

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    If you really believe your last sentence, why in the world did you post this? Have you followed her season? Have you paid any attention to her interviews this week?
     
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  3. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    @Vash01, she's been skating all season with an injured knee which has made it impossible for her to train at normal levels. It only got better recently when she took a week off the ice. IMO it is not fair to write her off based in her (perhaps unwise) efforts to skate through pain and injury. It is a good thing she didnt make the Worlds team IMO. She needs to rest that knee a lot more or have surgery. Then perhaps she can come back strong and give the kind of performances she believes she is still capable of.
     
  4. rosewood

    rosewood Well-Known Member

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    @Vash01 , you should read this article from ISU technical specialist Makoto Okazaki. :)

    http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20161226-00000069-spnannex-spo
    (my rough translation)

    Mao Asada: Still can make it in time to PyeonChang Olys. It was not age-related decline.
    .....
    While on the 3A in SP Asada over-focused on jumping up high and it caused her rotation speed slower, today in FS she over-focused on rotation movements this time and it caused the lack of power to stretch herself up on the take off of the 3A. As a result she lost her balance of left/right and she couldn't have enough air time.

    Although her performance was probably affected by the injury, what worrisome was the lack of overall sharpness in her movements. It seemed to me that rotations of her spins and jumps were slow because the reaction speed of muscles and nerves was slow. However, I think it is not age-related decline. Because she showed sharp movements in step sequences. I can also say the same about the 6 min warm-up but it may be that she didn't have enough practices of speedy movements during daily training. Maybe it was the worst case to Asada considering both placements and scores, but there is plenty of opportunity to make it in time to PyeonChang Olympics. Because she received the second highest five components marks after Miyahara and she still showed her big presence as a top skater.
    .....
     
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  5. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Yuzuru, Medvedeva, T&M, Shibs, P&C

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    I am rooting for her to make the Olympic podium in 2018. I am glad this was a nom-Olympic year.
     
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  6. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    @rosewood, doesnt it seem likely that any "overall lack of sharpness in her movements" is caused by her inability to train all-out, and maybe even that recent week off the ice, which still comes down to the injury? Until that knee issue is fixed, we will keep seeing these problems IMHO.
     
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  7. gotoschool

    gotoschool Well-Known Member

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    Overall in the LP, I think Mao had excellent sharpness in movement and great depth of expression. In terms of skating skills and attack, I think this was Mao's most impressive performance of the season and the step sequence just seemed to be an extension of that. I liked her components the best despite the jumping miscues. Again, I was surprised with the improvement since Trophee de France. I noticed that Mao's rotational speed on jumps has been a little slower, but it also seemed slightly slower last season than before the break, but it seemed that it had improved since the Trophee de France, where Mao did look like she lacked some overall sharpness. I did notice a lack of sharpness in the triple flip / double loop / double loop, which Mao has been dealing with off and on since she started icing her knee in the Cup of China LP, and favoring her left knee and jumping at an angle when trying to land the triple salchow, which again most certainly is injury related. Mao was able to land the triple salchow at Finlandia Trophy though. I think nerves could have played a role in missing the triple axel, which could also be due to not integrating it more thoroughly in run throughs beyond the fact that it is such an incredibly hard jump that very few women have ever hit it. Just to see Mao do it in practice with her hallmark elegance and power is a rare treasure I feel fortunate to have the pleasure to see.

    I didn't notice a reduced speed in spins this season, though they do seem a bit slower than before the break. To me, it has always been the outstanding fluidity, positions and expression that Mao brings to her spins that impresses me, not so much the speed, though Mao's spin speed in the Sochi LP and Worlds LP were impressive. In addition to returning to intensive training and gaining more rotational speed, I think increasing the pre-rotation on Mao's jumps may be one way to get her jumps to fit the current system better and possibly bending more on landing to conceal potential hooks, though I prefer less pre-rotation and erect posture and think that Mao is scrutinized more closely on jumps than most other skaters and short changed on PCS.

    Honestly, I just want to see Mao skate, wherever it be in competition or exhibition. For me, the beauty and expressive and athletic power of Mao's skating will always transcend any system, which is why she is my favorite. But I also want her to he healthy. So, I hope she takes this time to treat her knee so she can achieve her goal of going to the Olympics again. I am also still dreaming of her doing exhibition tours some day.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
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  8. gotoschool

    gotoschool Well-Known Member

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    Here is a link speculating about the options Mao has to go to the Olympics and Nationals next season. I am posting it here but don't want to venture a translation. Hopefully, someone more familiar with Japanese will translate it if they feel it is legitimate and accurate. http://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/1757255.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
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  9. bartek

    bartek Active Member

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    I'm wondering if Mao will take part in any more competitions this season. It would be such a pity not to have her glorious programs performed ever again, especially now that her injury is no longer bothering her and she can train more intensively. At Nationals she showed that her condition had clearly been on the mend and that she just hadn't had enough practice to return to her best form. Are there any ISU Senior B competitions that she could participate in?
     
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  10. cohkaix

    cohkaix Active Member

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    I also hope for the chance to go to another Senior B for Mao before the season ended. Yes, Mao's condition is actually going upwards from TdF to Nationals, and she managed her training quite well to be presented in Nationals, in such condition. She should take some rest for a while for sure, but if her condition allows, another Senior B would definitely do her good (and boosting her WS a little bit so she won't fall out of top 24)

    I was doing some checking, the following competitions are some spring competitions that JSF usually assigns skaters (both senior/junior/advance A) to as well:

    2017/02/14(火)-2017/02/19(日) Bavarian Open
    2017/02/23(木)-2017/02/26(日) Challenge Cup 2017
    2017/03/10(金)-2017/03/12(日) Coupe du Printemps
    2017/04/05(水)-2017/04/09(日) Triglav Trophy & Narcisa Cup
    2017/04/06(木)-2017/04/09(日) Egna Spring Trophy (this one I'm less sure: there used to be a Gardena Spring Trophy but I'm not sure if they change the name or something else)

    When asking upon her competition plans for the rest of the season during some interviews, Mao only said she doesn't know. So it will be up to JSF as well to assign her to one of these competitions.
     
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  11. rosewood

    rosewood Well-Known Member

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    (my rough translation of the Q&A)

    Q by an announcer: You talked about your thoughts that you wished to repay a favor to your fans. Now you just finished FS, what comes to your mind?
    Mao: As for the opening 3A, since I popped it into 1A yesterday, when I faced FS, I was very much determined to rotate the 3A today.

    Q by A: When your name was called, lots of voices came from the stands shouting "Mao-chan ganbatte! (=do your best!)" What was in your mind?
    Mao: Well, voices from lots of people gave me power. I was frustrated I could not meet up to people's supports.
    Announcer: Your step sequences captured our hearts. Daisuke-san, what words do you have for her?

    Q by Daisuke: I felt your fighting spirit all through from the morning practice to the FS today. Probably it was a really tough time to you. What did you feel in yourself?
    Mao: Well, now I finished my skating, since there was a fall as well as mistakes here and there, I cannot deny frustrations remain in my mind.

    Q by D: Talking about the opening 3A, if it was done in a daily practice, it's very likely you lost your balance during the rotations. I thought you had very strong will to rotate. I felt "Oh you go and try to rotate such [unsuccessful] jump!?" I felt you had very strong determination to complete rotations of that jump. Tell us what was your thoughts for this competition?
    Mao: (awwww Daisuke's comment about the 3A made her tearing up) Japan National is a special competition. I have special emotions for Nationals as well. I wished to show good performances at this competition.

    Q by D: What kind of competition was this year's Nationals to Asada-senshu?
    Mao: Well, it's a difficult question. Ummmm, it was undescribable Nationals. hehe Undescribable.

    Q by D: I understand your feelings very well. I believe Asada-senshu's thoughts reached to your fans through your skating. I was greatly moved.
    Mao: Well there were mistakes. However, I kept trying to deliver my own skating or my own expressions all through both in SP and LP. So I'm not regretful in the meaning.
    _______

    Awwww A top athlete knows what a top athlete does.
     
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  12. rosewood

    rosewood Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I think so too. But there would be something other than just taking a rest, i.e. strengthening her muscles around knees so that the muscles support her knee joints. Maybe she's been building up her muscles as the first step and then she'll reduce a bit of fat in her body. It's the usual procedure in growing muscles. We saw the same kind of process from the Swan Lake season to the Sochi Olys season. She built up her body in the Swan Lake season and they in Sochi Olys season she got slimmer a bit. I thought her upper body got slimmer and lower body was more built up at this National than at TdF actually.

    Maybe anther point will be mental side. She looks she's gradually getting along with her injury.

    Finally she can change order of her jumps in LP. I've been concerning about the order of her LP, that is 3A 3F-3Lo 3Lz. This order is so much tough. So I wonder if she'll consider about changing the orders of elements in LP so that she can do LP run-through more easily.
     
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  13. rosewood

    rosewood Well-Known Member

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    This article doesn't tell anything special. We already learned how to win a post for Nationals in Mao's comeback season last year. Let's review it.

    1 Top 3 skaters at Nationals are "seeded" skaters and they are given bye to Regionals.
    2 If a skater is scheduled to international competitions (such as GP events) within two weeks from Sectionals, the skater is given a bye to Sectionals.

    Mao placed 12th at Nationals, she needs to win through to Nationals from Regionals next season.

    She's most likely not to be assigned to any GP event if she does not earn more ISU points since she's in the 21st in WS at this point and is very likely to be surpassed by other skaters who skate in Worlds/4CC/Euros.

    If she wins Nationals next season, she'll be guaranteed a spot for Olys. If not, she needs to do well in GP events. However, she's not guaranteed any spot for GP event at this point.
    ______

    I wish CoC or TdF will invite her next season again. I'm very much wishing ISF will lobby in her favor for asking other feds to invite her to their GP events.... or, her injury allow her to skate at any CS competition in spring like @bartek and @cohkaix indicated so that the point will push her up high enough in WS to be guaranteed one spot for GP event at least.
     
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  14. rosewood

    rosewood Well-Known Member

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    Of course what people wanted to watch at Nationals was Mao's skating. :encore::cheer:

    (my rough translation)
    TV audience rating of All Japan figure skating championships: Mao recorded the highest moment rating up to 20.3% - She attracted high attention.

    On the 26th Video Research Co. revealed TV audience rating (in Kanto area =metropolitan area) of All Japan figure skating championships aired by Fuji TV from 23rd to 25th this month. The average rating was as high as 14.3% on the 24th (19:31-21:20) and 14.1% on the 25th (19:25-21:30).

    The highest moment audience rating was 20.3% at 9:14pm on the 24th and 16.8% at 8:02pm on the 25th. At the both of the moments it was Mao's scenes which were being aired. On the 24th it was the moment when she just finished her performance. On the 25th it was the moment when she was performing. Although her preparations delayed in the first half of this season due to the anxiety from her left knee injury she's been dealing with from last season, she challenged 3A at Nationals. It drew high attention.

    On the 23rd men's SP, on the 24th ladies' SP and men's FS and on the 25th ladies' FS were aired.
    .....
     
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  15. chapis

    chapis Well-Known Member

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    it is great she is still so loved, but I a feel a little sad about Satoko, do you know how is percivied Satoko in Japan? I know, it is off topic but I think she is a little neglected.
     
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  16. gotoschool

    gotoschool Well-Known Member

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    Mao's SP and LP view count is also the largest for the competition by far.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2tcM0xiP-U

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it0xzny6nsw

    How often does the JSF assign skaters to events outside the national team like the events mentioned in the challenger series? Shouldn't they have already made announcements since the other events have already been assigned? Does Mao have any power at all in choosing to go to a challenger series event? If Mao is not assigned and she falls out of the top 24, does that mean she can only skate in sectionals and regional to get to Nationals or can she skate in other competitions like Finlandia Trophy for instance?

    Honestly, I just want to see Mao skate wherever it is, but I also hope she finds some effective and lasting treatment or medical intervention to heal her knee. If she doesn't compete, I hope she goes somewhere like Ice Legends again so we can see her programs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
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  17. rosewood

    rosewood Well-Known Member

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    Kind of you don't need to feel sad for Satoko. On the 24th both ladies' SP and men's FS were aired in the same TV program. If you feel sad for Satoko, you also need to feel sad for everyone in men's field. ;)

    I think it's just Mao is nation's darling and people are following her journey just like they watch over their daughter, grand-daughter, sister, or niece etc. They love Mao as a person. They love Mao's skating. Mao is involved in their lives.

    I think Satoko is well appreciated by skating fans. They know if a skater repeats good skates, the skater's scores go inflated. However, it's how the skater is perceived by casual viewers or general people when it comes down to TV audience rating. They don't get "welcome to figure skating world" kind of stuffs. People out of FS fandom know her presence. Her good results and glimpses of her skating are aired during news shows these years. However, it's important how she draws those casual viewers or general people's interests and let them keep watching the competition even Mao finished skating in the earlier group.

    Generally speaking I wonder if people tend to think/wish Mao's popularity/sponsor companies/love from the nation slide to younger skaters naturally/automatically. I kind of think it's getting clear that it's wrong. Mao as well as other star skaters like Hanyu, Daisuke or Miki etc EARENED their popularity by themselves. So, I dare to say younger generations need to do something unique/special to draw people's attention/love by their own skating. This is a word from someone who's been looking for a skater to root for as enthusiastically as I do for Mao after she retired. :)
     
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  18. chapis

    chapis Well-Known Member

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    yes, it is true. And indeed Mao earned her popularity. It is just I am a little paranoid about us like people being so shallow sometimes, because Satoko is beautiful but being so tiny and shy she seems like a little girl, while I feel Miki got more attention because she is very pretty/curvy and not shy. But I am glad Satoko is well appreciated by her country. She reminds me of Mao, she works very hard, she does not complain about the scoring, she is trying to be the total package, not just jumps.

    And changing the topic, I was rewatching the SP of Mao at nationals and wow, she is sublime, I swear I hated the music since the first time I heard but Mao´s performance is too much impressive to be ignored, I always thought that Mao was mainly a lyrical skater but truly she sells the drama soooooooo well, how someone so sweet can to get so intense?:drama:. I really hope she get another competition this season.
     
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  19. rosewood

    rosewood Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, not only her LP but also her SP of this season is so much gorgeous. And it makes me so sad her knee is overused during the past decade and it doesn't allow her to show her great emotions put into the programs when it's the supposedly peak of her artistry. :(
     
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  20. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    :( :( :( (((((Mao))))) (((((rosewood)))))
     
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  21. ioanna

    ioanna Member

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    Sorry but I don't think it's their job to earn popularity. Their job is to be good competitors and win medals, which is what they're doing. Mao got multiple commercials and sponsor offers which exposed her to the general audience. And as long as she's around she's obviously going to get the attention over the younger ones who are new to the scene. Except probably Marin Honda who is already considered Mao's successor just by having the "x factor".

    Just like chapis I also feel sad for Satoko but not because of how popular or unpopular she is, but because it's getting harder and harder to read Mao's cheer threads on forums without noticing passive-aggressive insinuations or comments such as "maybe Mao should learn how to prerotate and bend her knee to hide the hook" or "they know Satoko's scores are inflated because she repeats good skates". I understand everyone's frustrations but it's not Satoko's fault and some people need to remember that. Just my impressions, I don't mean to offend anyone. That's all I have to say.
     
  22. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    @ioanna, IMO you are reading intentions into rosewood's comments that are not there. English is her second (at least) language and although she is perfectly fluent sometimes nuances may need to be met with understanding. All she meant about Satoko et al is that popularity is not automatic but comes when fans decide there is something special about a skater. From many other posts it is clear that she has every respect and good wish for Satoko. Her comment about consistency being rewarded by the judges would apply to any skater.
     
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  23. chapis

    chapis Well-Known Member

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    I think one of the main reasons because Mao is so present is because Mao is there, when she was very young she got much attention because the 3a, but after that Mao always was competing except the year off, and of course the medals, but like rosewood said , she is like a sister, daughter to Japan.
    And I don´t think rosewood tried put down to Satoko with that comment. Though I do read other comments in this thread, but not comparable to those in other threads and especially in golden skate. I mean, is not because is a Mao thread, it is because unfortunately Satoko got those comments everywhere, but I am noting she is getting more love and credit now (not enough IMO), so, yes, she is gaining the respect of fans with her work.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
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  24. gotoschool

    gotoschool Well-Known Member

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  25. ioanna

    ioanna Member

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    I'm not singling rosewood out, my comment was about general impression. However I still disagree with the idea that skaters have to earn popularity as I believe it's not entirely in their hands or their skating style. The fact that Satoko is nowhere near Mao's level has more to do with the fans and less to do with her skating and accomplishments.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
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  26. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    Seriously? Mao was doing the 3A at 14, was considered a probable Olympic medalist or even a possible champion in 2006 if she had been age-eligible, and is a 3-time World champion, an Olympic silver medalist, and a hero to many for her fabulous comeback Olympic FS in 2014. Those achievements are the same as a one-time World medalist's? Please explain.
     
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  27. gotoschool

    gotoschool Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  28. Sylvia

    Sylvia Prepping for club comp. season!

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    Mao has no WS points to lose from the 2014-15 season, so when those points are removed after this season, her WS ranking should remain inside the top 24 even if she doesn't compete again this season. (ETA: And even if she is not in the top 24 WS or SB lists) I really think she will have the opportunity again to compete at two Grand Prix events next fall as long as she's healthy. :)

    BTW, Egna Spring Trophy used to be Gardena Spring Trophy. Last year, Gardena was moved to Egna for the first time, leading to the name change this year.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  29. ioanna

    ioanna Member

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    Looks like my post was misunderstood. My point is that popularity does not always come with the medals a skater earns. Yes, Mao was doing the 3A at 14 and could have been Olympic Champion in 2006, but Shizuka Arakawa ended up winning the gold. Was Shizuka Arakawa as popular as the 14 year old Mao? I don't think she was. The general audience was more excited about the 14 year old who won the GPF rather than the Olympic Champion, just like they're more excited about 15 year old Marin Honda than Satoko Miyahara who is a 3-time National Champion and yes, a "one-time World medalist". If I gave the impression that I am underestimating Mao's achievements it's my fault for not expressing myself clearer. English isn't my first language either.
     
  30. rosewood

    rosewood Well-Known Member

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    I thought I talked about younger generation related to popularity in general. @ioanna, it's sad to see how you're behaving on this thread. If you want to continue talking about Satoko Satoko Satoko and Marin, you have Satoko's own thread and Japanese news thread. When you start your discussion on those threads, I'll post my opinion there. Tag me if you want. I'm regretting I mentioned about Satoko here. Ugh Kind of Satoko is establishing herself as a "queen" who has a uber enthusiastic fan like you. haha

    It's my impression but both Satoko and Marin as well as other young skaters are decently appreciated and loved by skating fans. Kind of Marin's management company who mainly deal with show biz people have more power of PR on media than Satoko's IMG who also work with Mao. Other young skaters even don't have their management company to begin with. Marin has potential to draw people out of skating fandom near future. On the other hand there is a possibility that her show biz management company throw a shadow over her popularity within skating fans if they push push push and push her as a star just like they do when they PR their up-coming singer/actor.

    That said, I don't think Satoko's SKATING (or performance) is appealing enough to EARN outstanding popularity/people's love out of figure skating fandom at this point. Also I don't think you can state "they're (=Japanese people) more excited about 15 year old Marin Honda than Satoko Miyahara." Do you have any source for it? It's just my impression but there aren't big difference between them at this point or even someone other than you can say they're more excited about Satoko than Marin. NHK reported Satoko's victory and Mao's disappointing results at Nationals in their news shows and they didn't mention Marin. My non FS fan husband knows more about Satoko than Marin.

    I think I talked enough about Satoko or Marin and I'll never mention about them on this thread. GS ( I think GS was mentioned related to Satoko earlier?) sounds like still the place where I should keep away from. Why on the earth I have to be drawn into a kind of a fan war on the final day of the year?! :scream:

    Wishing a happy new year's day for everyone on this thread including @ioanna, tho. :)