Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by modern_muslimah, Jan 29, 2012.
And it's obvious that Sasha was more inconsistent than Mirai...okey dokey.
In the sense that she never put together 2 clean programs and Mirai did.
But in terms of performing overall and getting high placements Sasha was more consistent.
^^What is the argument about? Neither one is consistent, so its a moot point
I actually think Sasha was very consistent. Consistency just means putting in the same type of program all the time. Which Sasha did.
Sasha normally did a good short and had problems in the long; but always did enough in the long to medal. That's why Sasha's results weren't all over the place.
Mirai is the one who is inconsistent because one day Mirai will put in a program that is half hearted; with a blank face, and all kinds of mistakes. And then lets say two weeks later she will put on a wonderful performance with lovely jumps etc.
04 she skates a strong sp and a good lp where she botches a 3s in the final minutes.
05 she skates a strong sp and a good lp where she flubs the 2nd 3f and then botches a 3s in the final minutes.
06 she skates a strong sp and a good (enough) lp where she flubs the 2nd 3f, messy landing on 3t and 2a and then botches a 3s in the final minutes.
And people are all "omg she's so volatile and unpredictable, you never know how Sasha is going to skate, so inconsistent!"
Here's a hint to any newbies: enjoy the sp, then during the lp and wait for the inevitable mistake on the final 3s.
I believe the comparison is because neither have been able to meet the expectations of their fans who feel neither are meeting their potential. Both are plagued with "why? Why? Why?" and posters will always disagree on the answer.
Skating 2 clean(ish) programs one day and bombing the next isn't "consistent" IMHO.
Skating strong sp and good lp with almost always 2 mistakes in the 2nd half isn't "inconsistent" IMHO.
"consistent" to me means usually the same, not "was able to skate clean once".
This is not an argument clinic about Sasha Cohen! "Try Mr. Barnard, room 12."
Perhaps you should start another thread about Sasha.
I wonder if Mirai might do well to take next year off from skating and start college. That would give her a chance to see if she misses skating or not, and also give full attention to her freshman year.
This is all speculation and some of us if we actually talked with Mirai would probably feel silly after the encounter. With that being said, and of course going off of the short time that i ever see her at a competition on TV, she still acts and internalizes things like a young girl vs a woman. Sandra made a comment during the pair performance of Evora and Ladwig that Amanda is just too nice to really thrive in a competitive environment. I think that Mirai is along those lines as well.
The observation of Mirai breaking her concentration and looking at the audience member... eh that didnt bother me as much as Mirai not being able to bounce back from it. The ultimate distraction was the streaker who hopped on the ice before Kwan at worlds the year she skated to Tosca. Either you can handle it or you cant.
I cant say that Nagasu's issues are training related. I do think that she's gotta learn how to compete and truly feel music. Is changing coaches a necessity? perhaps. I tend to think though that she would have done foolish things like put a double loop on the end of a double toe in a 3 jump combo with zero speed no matter who her coach was.
The blank face thing kills me as well. Plus, she does not always time her movements to the music. Her spirals, though a nice position are achieved so random looking... plop... there's a leg just sticking up there. no creschendo etc. eh...
I think the two go hand in hand. In one of the articles frank basically says she has to work harder, and she loses the big picture because she obsesses over trivial matters. This is followed up by a quote from mirai that basically says Her mom tells her to work harder and improve on some things and then she goes and obsesses over the little criticism and loses the bigger picture. Then she goes to nats and practices well but tanks the comp because she's thinking too much and not relying on the muscle memory she'd have if she trained harder. She misses jumps and then says it was because she was thinking too much about her facial expressions. It's a vicious cycle.
It only seems like Sasha was inconsistent because she was skating against people like MK and Irina who could lay down 6-7 triple programs with no errors.But really...fans could always count on her to skate a beautiful short program and a 5-6 triple long program with 1 mistake and a podium finish. You could always count on Sasha from that.
If you compare her to other world/national champions, her "inconsistency" is consistent with most of them. If that makes sense.
True Sasha was born in the wrong era. She probably would have won major titles in this era and the one before Kwan. There was also Shizuka who was inconsistent as heck but could out of the blue produce a brilliant and clean competition (with or without great difficulty, depending on what was needed) at the most opportune times, denying Sasha with her fateful 1 or 2 error programs a couple times as well.
Well, yes, but- this thread is about Nagasu though, not Cohen.
I haven't seen any quotes from her since the Nationals though. As only the 3rd alternate for worlds, her season is virtually over. Does she still qualify for 2 GP events next year, though? (I recall her doing ok on the GP this year)
As of today, Nagasu is ranked #8 in the ISU World Standings and #8 on the 2011-12 Season Best total scores list, so she should remain eligible for selection to next season's Grand Prix.
Indeed, Mirai's season is most likely over. Hopefully she'll have a chance to get some downtime (and a few trips to the beach) so that she can buckle down and figure out what her next course of action is.
I think she still *might* be chosen for WTT this year, unless Ashley can pull up her World Ranking substantially with 4CCs and Worlds (Skaters for WTT are chosen by their World Standing and not their season's best right?)
Right, but Ashley's not the third ranked American behind Mirai right now either. As of today, the U.S. ladies are ranked:
#6 Alissa CZISNY (3,087 points)
#8 Mirai NAGASU (2,817)
#13 Rachael FLATT (2,347)
#23 Agnes ZAWADZKI (1,652)
#25 Caroline ZHANG (1,513)
#26 Christina GAO (1,443)
#29 Ashley WAGNER (1,348)
Even if Ashley wins Worlds, she'd receive 1,200 points which would still put her behind Mirai. Now, when the ISU wipes the 2009/10 points out, things will probably change, but that won't happen until after the WTT.
So, it looks like Mirai still has a good shot at competing in Japan at the WTT this spring. Actually, the only person on that list who can statistically overtake her is Rachael, who won't be competing at 4CC unless Ashley, Agnes or Caroline w/d.
WTF how is Caroline ahead of Ashley? World standings always confuse me.....
Anywho is it cumulative World standings that are used or this season's world standings that are used in determining who is inivted to WTT?
I just bumped up the 2012 World Team Trophy thread in GSD - maybe we can discuss this question over there: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3467228#post3467228
^ Well how did they choose in the past?
Anyways, have there been any post-Nationals interviews with Mirai and Frank?
The last time Ashley had ISU Championship points (Worlds, Jr. Worlds, 4CC, or Olympics) was 2008/09, and those were wiped out after last season. She is the only skater currently in the top 40 to have no ISU Championship points from 2009-now, although that will soon change.
Caroline has 476 ISU Championship points from her 2010 4CC bronze medal. After this season, however, they will go away.
The "Season World Ranking" did not exist at the time of the last WTT.
Oh yeah, it didn't...
Even the non-skating Asian friends I have eventually learn to shut off the part of their brain that listens to their tiger parents by 18.
I had parents who made me tape-record my piano playing and listen to it when I was 10. Eventually they laid off me and I learned to have high standards for myself. I also had to make the choice of practicing deliberately. Not for anyone else. But for myself. Your coach or your mother can't always tell you what you need to work on - YOU have to know what you need to work on, and your coach can take you there. I mean, when you're young and don't know anything about skating, they can do that, but when you're at this level....
It just seems to me that Mirai needs to own her skating career more. Even I was incredulous at the "I was thinking too hard about my facial expressions" excuse after the LP. If she had been practicing deliberately instead of relying on muscle memory, it really shouldn't have been an issue. You can't phone it in in practice and expect to somehow find the emotion in competition.
It's late for me here-what's WTT?
World Team Trophy.
Thanks! I had forgotten about that competition!
Now to bed. Good night all.
This. I remember Frank said last year that in the few weeks leading to Nationals Mirai then would get it together. The cramming may work very well for Nationals practice but not necessarily when the pressure is on. Of course Mirai should be able to do those jumps pretty easily under the low pressure of practice; she's been doing those jumps for years.
The only reason I believe that Mirai has work issues is because Frank and Nagasu have both admitted that Nagasu has work issues. To me if the skater and the coach admit that its the case than I'm not sure why fans feel the need to come up with something different or another excuse.
And as for Mirai's music; whose to say that Mirai had nothing to do with what her music choices. I've actually heard that for at least one of the programs (the short) the exact opposite is the case.
If Mirai's issues were just mental; I don't think Frank or Lori would be looking like they wanted to throttle her after her skate. I don't remember Frank looking like he wanted to throttle Bebe, and she was very inconsistent. He didn't look like he wanted to throttle Denis Ten last year; when Denis was struggling.
The thing is that the discipline and effort it takes to be a major champion is ridiculous. I remember reading about how much practice Yu-na put into becoming an Olympic Champ; Rafael has talked about how hard Mao Asada use to practice. Not everyone has that kind of focus; and I think that's perfectly fine.
But if the skater doesn't have that kind of focus; its on the skater. Not the coaches, not the choreographer etc. I don't think blaming Frank or Lori is really fair. If Mirai is unhappy with her coach; nothing is stopping her from getting another one; and same goes with her choreographer. Lori's stuff is a bit overdone but skaters also tend to change choreography; and she has proven with Kostner that she's more than capable of doing great programs still.
Mirai is a lovely girl and not having Kim/Asada like focus doesn't change that. But it does mean the results are on her.
Exactly. I have never gotten the feeling that Mirai wants it as bad as some of those other skaters like Mao or Kim. But the big thing is she needs to grow up. In just a couple months she will be 19. She should be hitting her peak and setting herself up for Sochi not going backwards. I think all Frank asks of his skaters is to work hard and listen to and do what he says. That's not asking a lot if you ask me.
I don't want Nagasu to retire because I think she is a lovely skater. And its not for me to judge. But a part of me thinks if her family is really struggling financially like people are saying; than she needs to either decide she's "all in" or perhaps do something else. It may be difficult for her to do that though since her family already sacrificed so much; I don't envy her there. All in doesn't necessarily mean staying with Frank though. The current training situation is clearly not working, but somehow I have a feeling that while many coaches may have a different methods. I just have a hard time thinking most coaches disagree on the amount of work ethic it requires to be a champion.