Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Dobre, Nov 23, 2016.
Continue . . .
I can't wait until this weekend seeing P&C and V&M competing with each other. What an embarrassment of riches! It will be an awesome competition and I wish them both well.
A bit late, but thanks @kittysk8ts and @clairecloutier for your comments on the changes in W/P's skating. Curious to see how their program/skating will develop, 2 months to Nationals is quite some time. I think they'll keep safely the #2 status in Canada, although that certainly was not their goal, and they'll be back in the podium conversation by Worlds. A lot will depend now on Nationals/4CC to see where US and canadian top 3 teams stand within their country.
Ice dance field was really brutal on the GP, two of last year's GPF medalists won't make the final! and 24 points in other disciplines (singles) are enough for a GPF berth it seems.
No it wasn't brutal, it was completly very not balanced for three events who were clearly inferior (Skate America, Trophée de France and Cup of China).
And the others were bloodbaths.
You would include Rostelecom Cup as superior? It was won by the bronze medalists at Skate America. Of course, we can all make theories as to why that happened. I think NHK and Skate Canada were unusually and seriously incredibly strong while the others were more-or-less equal. Well, I will say Cup of China, as a whole, had the least depth.
There were no inferior events in GP dance this season.
There were some performances that were not up to specific teams' potential. (In fact, I would argue that every top team had one, with the exception of P&C, who have not competed their second event yet). But that is what happens at the beginning of the season, with new material & requirements, and "under pressure."
Skate America--Had 5 teams that have finished top 10 at Worlds, 4 that have qualified for the GPF, and 2 World medalists.
Skate Canada--Had 6 teams that have finished top 10 at Worlds, 4 that have qualified for the GPF, 3 World medalists, and 2 World champions.
Rostelecom--Had 4 teams that have finished top 10 at Worlds, 3 that have qualified for the GPF, and 2 World medalists.
Trophee de France--Had 4 teams that have finished top 10 at Worlds, 4 that have qualified for the GPF, 1 World medalist, and 1 World champion.
Cup of China--Had 4 teams that have finished top 10 at Worlds, 2 that have qualified for the GPF, and 2 World medalists.
NHK--Is set to have 4 teams that have finished top 10 at Worlds, 3 that have qualified for the GPF, 3 World medalists, and 3 World champions.
Question: Have there ever been 3 former/current world champions competing in the same event in dance? Even at Worlds or the Olympics?
Honestly, I wouldn't dismiss B/S as being bronze medalist at Skate America because I genuinely believe that they were held down for H/D.
Not dismissing Bobrova & Soloviev for placing below Hubbell & Donahue at Skate America.
Not dismissing Cappellini & Lanotte for placing below Gilles & Poirier in Canada.
Not dismissing Chock & Bates for placing below Virtue & Moir in Canada.
Not dismissing Weaver & Poje for placing below Bobrova & Soloviev in Russia.
Also not dismissing any teams which had glaring errors that notably dropped them several points during a GP competition. (Virtue & Moir, Chock & Bates, Gilles & Poirier)
Which leaves us with the first neutral GP competition of the season at Cup of China, where the top two teams--the Shibutanis and Weaver & Poje--split placements.
On to the second at NHK.
FYI, I am dismissing the scores at Tallinn Trophy.
Okay, I see you. And Talinn Trophy? More like Mordovian Ornament! (Weren't Ruslena and Tobias & Tkachenko at both?)
The following teams were at both 2016 Tallinn Trophy and 2015 Mordovian Ornament:
Ilinykh & Zhiganshin (RUS)
Tobias & Tkachenko (ISR)
Agafanova & Ucar (TUR)
Kavaliova & Bieliaiev (BLR)
Jakushina & Nevskiy (LAT)
Sosnitskaia & Golovishnokov (RUS)
Aurelia Ipolito and 2 different partners (LAT)
(Judges from each of the above countries were on both panels as well. Mostly different people, however. The tech panels were also different people).
I don't hate the random-draw thing as much as some folks (CBC commentators, ahem) do, but the draw for the SD at NHK is just ridiculous: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/gpjpn2016/SEG007.HTM
P/C skating third in the first warmup group, followed by S/K and H/B, V/M kicking off the second group, and the Dirty Dancing Polish team skates last. Cheers, folks.
To have the World Champs skate 3rd in the first group is just outlandish. It's also an unfortunate draw for the top ranking home team (Chris/Kana) to have to go first and warm up the home crowd while they are still finding their SEATS! This unseeded business is gonna take some time to get used to.
It's better to have the favorites scattered like this than to have one strong contender up early and then all the other top teams up last or late. Having the reigning World Champions up so early may discourage wild, record-breaking scores in the SD. (It may not; but if it does, I am fine with that. I hate when the judges go nuts over a favorite in the short and then the free is a mess but the gap seems insurmountable). The judges aren't going to forget about the top teams here. There's plenty of evidence thus far this season that the judges will respect and reward those teams if they skate strong. Plus, with this lineup, neither will the judges overlook another credible team just because that team goes early.
Wasn't the start order previously based on World ranking?
If that were the case, we would have the following order:
1. Virtue & Moir
2. Hirai & De La Asuncion
3. Muramoto & Reed
4. Lauriault & Le Gac
5. Kaliszek & Spodyriev
6. Cannuscio & McManus
7. Sinitsina & Katsalapov
8. Hawayek & Baker
9. Papadakis & Cizeron
10. Cappellini & Lanotte
Would that really be that much less ridiculous? Or better for the Japanese crowd? At Skate America, the announcer gave the crowd an early heads-up that the Shibs were going to be first, which I thought was a good way of handling the situation.
This is ISU's evil ploy to get people to show up on time if they want to see their favorite skaters.
No it's because in the last two GPF, the order at the end of the day was protocol judging. And now, it's not supposed to be that obvious.
I think it is more fair now. I think there are numerous studies out there that suggest that skating order does affect scoring. How is an up and coming skater supposed to move up in the ranks when there is a psychological barrier presented with warm-up groups that are based on ranking.
But it's getting better now. The ShibSibs went first at Skate America and Chock/Bates went first ar Skate Canada and they were 1 and 2 respectively.
Just saw that the short dance was on Saturday and not tomorrow...
in my neck of the woods....(EST) it is really 10:45pm tomorrow...while the other 3 events go from midnight & a bit to 5:00am tomorrow morning
Why are the dance events separate from all the other events?
Even with lower levels, P/C's PCS is practically the same as V/M. So if P/C improve their levels, would their PCS improve as well? Which team has more room to grow on the PCS side? Are TES and PCS completely disconnected scores?
Very good question...I found it quite annoying
NHK was a kick in the butt for P/C. They made a mistake skating to inaccessible music and doing a FD too similar to their past FDs. Now they are in a real pickle because if they continue in their wheelhouse style for the Olympic season, it will be pointed out ad nauseum that this is all they do.
And obviously they haven't had to compete under this kind of pressure against a competitior of V/M's caliber before, and they didn't step up to the plate at all. They had two huge visible errors tonight and looked frazzled. It will be interesting to see how they respond at GPF.
I don't know either, but if they throw in the gala along with the FD comp, it's the Best Buy in town!
And the GPF should be incredible. I think there are more surprises to be had!
People forget how young P/C are. They've never faced competition like V/M before, and I'm not surprised they were a little rattled. Competing under pressure is something you have to learn. V/M have been here a thousand times before and P/C haven't. It's something they'll grow into and learn with time.
I'll say 3 things about nhk:
-Well done V/M, I thought this FD was beautiful and flowing! I'm not a fan of the music choice but that's the only thing keeping me from going crazy over it. They skated with great confidence, and that last lift was amazing.
-P/C, well.. I don't think they deserved to be 9 points behind tbh. But that being said, V/M had a deserved win so I think this could be a real kick in the butt! That little wobble at the end of the curved lift showed they were nervous! It's not everyday that you get to compete against your idols. Better failing now than at GPF.
-And last but not least : Hawayek/Baker!!!! Well done! I love it that they finished right before S/K! That FD is beautiful!!!
I am very impressed with V/M´s lifts, they look very well trained. I just want new costumes.
Kaitlyn and Jean-Luc cracking 100 with their exellent free skate was the highlight of NHK for me. I know most of the attention was on three world champs going head to head here, but I just had the tiny hope for H/B to do well and they did! Hopefully they start creeping up on H/D at Nationals.