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The Dance Hall part 3: Ice Dance Fans 2016-2017

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Dobre, Nov 23, 2016.

  1. Dobre

    Dobre Well-Known Member

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    Continue . . .
     
  2. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

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    I can't wait until this weekend seeing P&C and V&M competing with each other. What an embarrassment of riches! It will be an awesome competition and I wish them both well.
     
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  3. levineismine

    levineismine Well-Known Member

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    A bit late, but thanks @kittysk8ts and @clairecloutier for your comments on the changes in W/P's skating. Curious to see how their program/skating will develop, 2 months to Nationals is quite some time. I think they'll keep safely the #2 status in Canada, although that certainly was not their goal, and they'll be back in the podium conversation by Worlds. A lot will depend now on Nationals/4CC to see where US and canadian top 3 teams stand within their country.
    Ice dance field was really brutal on the GP, two of last year's GPF medalists won't make the final! and 24 points in other disciplines (singles) are enough for a GPF berth it seems.
     
  4. MarieM

    MarieM Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover

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    No it wasn't brutal, it was completly very not balanced for three events who were clearly inferior (Skate America, Trophée de France and Cup of China).
    And the others were bloodbaths.
     
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  5. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    You would include Rostelecom Cup as superior? It was won by the bronze medalists at Skate America. Of course, we can all make theories as to why that happened. I think NHK and Skate Canada were unusually and seriously incredibly strong while the others were more-or-less equal. Well, I will say Cup of China, as a whole, had the least depth.
     
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  6. Dobre

    Dobre Well-Known Member

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    There were no inferior events in GP dance this season.

    There were some performances that were not up to specific teams' potential. (In fact, I would argue that every top team had one, with the exception of P&C, who have not competed their second event yet). But that is what happens at the beginning of the season, with new material & requirements, and "under pressure."

    Skate America--Had 5 teams that have finished top 10 at Worlds, 4 that have qualified for the GPF, and 2 World medalists.

    Skate Canada--Had 6 teams that have finished top 10 at Worlds, 4 that have qualified for the GPF, 3 World medalists, and 2 World champions.

    Rostelecom--Had 4 teams that have finished top 10 at Worlds, 3 that have qualified for the GPF, and 2 World medalists.

    Trophee de France--Had 4 teams that have finished top 10 at Worlds, 4 that have qualified for the GPF, 1 World medalist, and 1 World champion.

    Cup of China--Had 4 teams that have finished top 10 at Worlds, 2 that have qualified for the GPF, and 2 World medalists.

    NHK--Is set to have 4 teams that have finished top 10 at Worlds, 3 that have qualified for the GPF, 3 World medalists, and 3 World champions.


    Question: Have there ever been 3 former/current world champions competing in the same event in dance? Even at Worlds or the Olympics?
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
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  7. supergirl573

    supergirl573 Active Member

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    Honestly, I wouldn't dismiss B/S as being bronze medalist at Skate America because I genuinely believe that they were held down for H/D.
     
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  8. Dobre

    Dobre Well-Known Member

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    Not dismissing Bobrova & Soloviev for placing below Hubbell & Donahue at Skate America.
    Not dismissing Cappellini & Lanotte for placing below Gilles & Poirier in Canada.
    Not dismissing Chock & Bates for placing below Virtue & Moir in Canada.
    Not dismissing Weaver & Poje for placing below Bobrova & Soloviev in Russia.
    Also not dismissing any teams which had glaring errors that notably dropped them several points during a GP competition. (Virtue & Moir, Chock & Bates, Gilles & Poirier)

    Which leaves us with the first neutral GP competition of the season at Cup of China, where the top two teams--the Shibutanis and Weaver & Poje--split placements.

    On to the second at NHK.


    FYI, I am dismissing the scores at Tallinn Trophy.
     
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  9. supergirl573

    supergirl573 Active Member

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    Okay, I see you. And Talinn Trophy? More like Mordovian Ornament! (Weren't Ruslena and Tobias & Tkachenko at both?)
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
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  10. Dobre

    Dobre Well-Known Member

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    The following teams were at both 2016 Tallinn Trophy and 2015 Mordovian Ornament:
    Ilinykh & Zhiganshin (RUS)
    Tobias & Tkachenko (ISR)
    Agafanova & Ucar (TUR)
    Kavaliova & Bieliaiev (BLR)
    Jakushina & Nevskiy (LAT)
    Sosnitskaia & Golovishnokov (RUS)
    Aurelia Ipolito and 2 different partners (LAT)

    (Judges from each of the above countries were on both panels as well. Mostly different people, however. The tech panels were also different people).
     
  11. supergirl573

    supergirl573 Active Member

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    Conspiracy!
     
  12. bwayrose7

    bwayrose7 Well-Known Member

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    I don't hate the random-draw thing as much as some folks (CBC commentators, ahem) do, but the draw for the SD at NHK is just ridiculous: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/gpjpn2016/SEG007.HTM

    P/C skating third in the first warmup group, followed by S/K and H/B, V/M kicking off the second group, and the Dirty Dancing Polish team skates last. Cheers, folks.
     
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  13. justtojoke

    justtojoke Well-Known Member

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    To have the World Champs skate 3rd in the first group is just outlandish. It's also an unfortunate draw for the top ranking home team (Chris/Kana) to have to go first and warm up the home crowd while they are still finding their SEATS! This unseeded business is gonna take some time to get used to.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2016
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  14. Dobre

    Dobre Well-Known Member

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    It's better to have the favorites scattered like this than to have one strong contender up early and then all the other top teams up last or late. Having the reigning World Champions up so early may discourage wild, record-breaking scores in the SD. (It may not; but if it does, I am fine with that. I hate when the judges go nuts over a favorite in the short and then the free is a mess but the gap seems insurmountable). The judges aren't going to forget about the top teams here. There's plenty of evidence thus far this season that the judges will respect and reward those teams if they skate strong. Plus, with this lineup, neither will the judges overlook another credible team just because that team goes early.

    Wasn't the start order previously based on World ranking?

    If that were the case, we would have the following order:
    1. Virtue & Moir
    2. Hirai & De La Asuncion
    3. Muramoto & Reed
    4. Lauriault & Le Gac
    5. Kaliszek & Spodyriev
    6. Cannuscio & McManus
    7. Sinitsina & Katsalapov
    8. Hawayek & Baker
    9. Papadakis & Cizeron
    10. Cappellini & Lanotte

    Would that really be that much less ridiculous? Or better for the Japanese crowd? At Skate America, the announcer gave the crowd an early heads-up that the Shibs were going to be first, which I thought was a good way of handling the situation.
     
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  15. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

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    This is ISU's evil ploy to get people to show up on time if they want to see their favorite skaters.:EVILLE:
     
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  16. MarieM

    MarieM Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover

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    No it's because in the last two GPF, the order at the end of the day was protocol judging. And now, it's not supposed to be that obvious.
     
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  17. mollymgr

    mollymgr Well-Known Member

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    I think it is more fair now. I think there are numerous studies out there that suggest that skating order does affect scoring. How is an up and coming skater supposed to move up in the ranks when there is a psychological barrier presented with warm-up groups that are based on ranking.
    http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/archive/features/scoring drift.htm
     
  18. supergirl573

    supergirl573 Active Member

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    But it's getting better now. The ShibSibs went first at Skate America and Chock/Bates went first ar Skate Canada and they were 1 and 2 respectively.
     
  19. Miloune

    Miloune Well-Known Member

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    Just saw that the short dance was on Saturday and not tomorrow... :fragile:
     
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  20. barbarafan

    barbarafan Well-Known Member

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    in my neck of the woods....(EST) it is really 10:45pm tomorrow...while the other 3 events go from midnight & a bit to 5:00am tomorrow morning
     
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  21. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    Why are the dance events separate from all the other events?
     
  22. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    Even with lower levels, P/C's PCS is practically the same as V/M. So if P/C improve their levels, would their PCS improve as well? Which team has more room to grow on the PCS side? Are TES and PCS completely disconnected scores?
     
  23. justtojoke

    justtojoke Well-Known Member

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    Very good question...I found it quite annoying
     
  24. caitie

    caitie Well-Known Member

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    NHK was a kick in the butt for P/C. They made a mistake skating to inaccessible music and doing a FD too similar to their past FDs. Now they are in a real pickle because if they continue in their wheelhouse style for the Olympic season, it will be pointed out ad nauseum that this is all they do.

    And obviously they haven't had to compete under this kind of pressure against a competitior of V/M's caliber before, and they didn't step up to the plate at all. They had two huge visible errors tonight and looked frazzled. It will be interesting to see how they respond at GPF.
     
  25. debo

    debo Well-Known Member

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    I don't know either, but if they throw in the gala along with the FD comp, it's the Best Buy in town!
     
  26. debo

    debo Well-Known Member

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    And the GPF should be incredible. I think there are more surprises to be had!
     
  27. princeton123

    princeton123 Well-Known Member

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    People forget how young P/C are. They've never faced competition like V/M before, and I'm not surprised they were a little rattled. Competing under pressure is something you have to learn. V/M have been here a thousand times before and P/C haven't. It's something they'll grow into and learn with time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
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  28. Miloune

    Miloune Well-Known Member

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    I'll say 3 things about nhk:
    -Well done V/M, I thought this FD was beautiful and flowing! I'm not a fan of the music choice but that's the only thing keeping me from going crazy over it. They skated with great confidence, and that last lift was amazing.
    -P/C, well.. I don't think they deserved to be 9 points behind tbh. But that being said, V/M had a deserved win so I think this could be a real kick in the butt! That little wobble at the end of the curved lift showed they were nervous! It's not everyday that you get to compete against your idols. Better failing now than at GPF.
    -And last but not least : Hawayek/Baker!!!! Well done! I love it that they finished right before S/K! That FD is beautiful!!!
     
  29. chapis

    chapis Well-Known Member

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    I am very impressed with V/M´s lifts, they look very well trained. I just want new costumes.
     
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  30. teacakes

    teacakes Member

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    Kaitlyn and Jean-Luc cracking 100 with their exellent free skate was the highlight of NHK for me. I know most of the attention was on three world champs going head to head here, but I just had the tiny hope for H/B to do well and they did! Hopefully they start creeping up on H/D at Nationals.