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Tara May be Returning to the Ice

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Iceman, Jul 30, 2010.

  1. Muffin

    Muffin New Member

    Lyra Angelica was difficult, subtle music that could really only be appreciated after listening to it many times and getting to know it very well. That's fine for hard-core Kwan fans who re-watched the program a hundred times and fell in love with it, but it was a big gamble to take with the judges, especially in an Olympic year when all the other skaters aimed to choose dramatic music that would grab the judges right away. The fact that Michelle only liked the music after listening to it many times should have been a warning sign.

    Without dramatic music to help her along, the burden was all on Michelle to sell the program. When she did it, like at Nationals, it was like a great souffle that everybody loved. When she tightened up and performed stiffly at the Olympics, it was like a souffle that had gone flat.

    Her SP music was *perfect*. It was dramatic, it was catchy, it was moving, it crescendoed at the right moments, and it wasn't music that had been used much by other skaters. That's rare in skating. The program had also had a youthfulness and joy to it.

    She did not do justice to the program when she re-did it in 2002. The perception of Michelle at the time was that she had stalled artistically and that her skating was stale, and redoing an old program only confirmed that. She got good marks for it because it was still a solid program, but the magic was gone.
  2. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    I actually preferred her Rach in 2002.
  3. Simone411

    Simone411 FSU Uber fan

    It is correct on Wiki about her hurting her hip again (the torn muscle) when she fell at the SOI show in 2002. In November of 2002, Tara had a flare-up with her hip 2 weeks before she competed at Ice Wars.

    They mentioned it shortly after the beginning when Tara was performing to Paint It Black:


    I couldn't find Tara's 2nd performance, "To Where You Are", on YouTube but she started having trouble with her hip and nearly fell while doing a triple. When Tara finished the program, she sat down beside Nicole in the K&C. If I remember correctly, Nicole then asked Tara if she was okay.
  4. diskates

    diskates New Member

    I was there too! Michelle was definitely better and the crowd let her know that. That is the only live competition I have ever been to.

    I remember they gave her a fancy car, some award for getting the most 6.0s and the announcer made the comment "yes, Michelle is actualy old enough to drive it".
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  5. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

    IMO Lyra Angelica didn't have anything to do with it. V&M skated to a death march for crying out loud and still won, probably the most boring program to ever win an Olympics. If you have to have excitement to win then why didn't D&W win?
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  6. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    I think maybe D&W went too far in the excitement direction! LOL. I know some people have said they are just too fast.
  7. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

    Too fast? Isn't the point of skating to be fast (and do it well)? Which they did. I've never heard anyone complain about a skater being too fast if their technique is good. Evan winning gold was the death knell for another American team winning a second title. We can't have Americans winning everything, especially dance. It just wouldn't have been "fair" and would have appeared biased. V&M went second, so there was no reason to "hold back" on scoring, with a screaming home crowd adding a facade of excitement to what would have been a very boring program in any other location. By the time Worlds rolled around, they had the reputation of OGM and there's no reason to mark them second if they don't trip; anything to keep the Americans at bay from at least one more year of dance titles, now that the Russian cat is out of the bag. So fast/slow wasn't really the issue here, and I doubt it was with Lyra, either. The issue with Tara and Michelle wasn't country related, but once again, Tara went second benefitting from holding back of scores, the judges got caught up in the cutesiness, and had the satisfaction of helping Tara become "the youngest."
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  8. Enero

    Enero Member

    I think putting Michelle's loss in 98' on the music is unwarranted. She'd won with the program at Skate America (where she beat Tara) and Skate Canada earlier in the season. Both competitions had international judges.

    I think at the Olympics she was just outskated. It was the Olympics afterall, and the judges always seem to be looking for someone to rise to the occasion. Though Michelle skated beautifully, she didn't have the speed, the passion or the perfection she had at Nationals. Tara had the speed, the passion and a technically superior program. Michelle was good. Tara was great, and great won the OGM as it should.
  9. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

    Thanks! I thought I remembered a big injury in 2002. I wonder why Tara would say that she didn't quit skating because of injury when it really seems like that's what happened?
  10. Prancer

    Prancer Slave to none, master to all Staff Member

    Or maybe they just thought Tara skated better.

    Occam's razor applies even in skating.
  11. Muffin

    Muffin New Member

    I think the "saving marks" excuse is pure BS. The judges knew way back in 1997 that the Olympic title would probably come down to Tara or Michelle, and that it might be a very close contest. Regardless of which one skated first, the judges were damn sure going to plan their marks so that at the end of the night they could give the win to the one they wanted to. They chose Tara as the winner because that's who they wanted to win, not because they were hamstrung by skate order.
  12. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

    Yeah, but I've heard most of the female skaters prefer Nair. ;)
  13. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

    I think the technical superiority of Tara's program was really only in the 3lp-3lp. The bad picking technique on Tara's fluzes and flip were jarring to me, and the final 3sal felt squeeked out. I do agree that Tara had better speed and even better flow to her Rainbow program that Michelle's Lyra, and Tara's joy came across as very genuine.
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  14. IceJunkie

    IceJunkie Well-Known Member

    Eh. All these years, I feel like if Michelle had won that night, it would have been justified. I don't think Michelle was robbed, and I don't think Tara would have been robbed either...it was that close.

    It's been a few years since I've seen both programs back to back - I may have to YouTube and see if I still feel the same.
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  15. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

    I think Tara deserved her win. A 3loop 3loop is incredibly difficult and while her artistry wasn't my style it was still good enough. It's very rare for a 15 y/o to have the artistry she did. To this day I haven't seen a skater like her that could jump like that and had descent artistry at that age.

    I prefer kwan but her flip landing was like the landing of plushenko's shaky 3axel in Vancouver. Tara had basically 0 landing flaws, I think that was the difference as well.
  16. elbeep

    elbeep New Member

    It could have gone either way. Tara was a little bit better that night. She brought more joy and excitement, and she nailed that 3/3 loop. She deserved to win.
    Angela-Fan and (deleted member) like this.
  17. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

    So now that we have covered Nagano, Tara's money, and injuries, I'm still left with questions:
    * Is Tara going to skate again?
    * Has she been on the ice recently (even though she once said she wouldn't skate again)?
    * Where would she skate and would it be televised?
  18. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

    Yes, those are the burning questions!
  19. NeilJLeonard

    NeilJLeonard Well-Known Member

    Actually, they are....:)

    NJL (..everything preceeding that post is so 1990s...:biggrinbo...)
  20. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

    What's boring to you? I thought it was really exciting. Amazing tricks, good speed and exceptional connection to the music. My heart was racing.
  21. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

    I agree on the Lz and F comment...no fluidity in those jumps...and yes, very jerky and jarring.

    the 3S would be forgiven, though, given it was on the back end of a 3/3 sequence. Same type of landing as Joannie's in Vancouver.
  22. taf2002

    taf2002 zexy demon

    Joannie didn't win gold.
    Simone411 and (deleted member) like this.
  23. BmcC102

    BmcC102 Active Member

    Say what you will about her lutz, but her flip had a low, straight, light toe-pick. If she had done the same picking with her lutz (which was nice and straight into the ice, but too high), she may have had more success with the outside edge. Watch her flip at the 1:00 mark:


    Unlike most skaters who flutz with high free legs (S. Hughes, Zhang), Tara's flip was very, very good.
  24. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    Other than the flutz and an unconventional double axel (which wasn't really wrong, in terms of getting the job done), I think all of Tara's other jumps were really good.
    Angela-Fan and (deleted member) like this.
  25. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

    What?! lol

    Her layback and spiral were horrendous and squat looking. Michelle didn't have the greatest flexibility either, but everything she did was stretched out and elegant.

    And I guess it's easier to do jumps when you have a midget center of gravity. Let's go back and judge Tara with IJS - I think we will come to a different conclusion about her jump quality.
  26. Enero

    Enero Member

    I agree. And almost everyone flutzed back then so that wasn't a dealbreaker IMO. All of her jumps were spot on. She had nice flow going in and out of all them.
  27. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    Oooooo... that's cold. Really cold. And not necessarily true.
  28. Octoberopals

    Octoberopals Well-Known Member

  29. JerseySlore

    JerseySlore Active Member

    That's patently untrue, especially when the silver and bronze medalists had lutz with outside edge.
  30. IceJunkie

    IceJunkie Well-Known Member

    I love your user name. :hat1: :rofl: