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Takahashi & Tran split

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Mevrouw, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    True, I didn't realise that they didn't do GP events.
  2. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    They had to pull from everything this season, due to her injury. Their last international event was World Team Trophy in April 2012.

    There's nothing in the documentation so far that says split couples have to compete for the same country as they did with old partners. I don't know if there's an IOC rule that forbids an athlete from competing if s/he's competed internationally for another country; if there is, the rule may not apply equally to all members of a team.
  3. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

    Athletes switch countries all the time. AFAIK, the only rules are (1) citizenship in the country the athlete represents and (2) eligibility under the applicable rules of the pertinent national and international federations. In Tran's case, this prevented him from representing Japan but won't prevent hm from representing Canada. All he needs is a partner, money, and a sufficiently high placement at Canadians in 2014. Of course, that's easier said than done, but it's a lot easier than becoming a Japanese citizen when you have never lived in Japan.
  4. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    Yes, they do switch, but I remember hearing some explanation during Athletics about a wait-out period to prevent "buying" athletes. (The ISU has a provision in Rule 109 about reserving the right to disallow the same, not just for the Olympics.). I'm just not sure what those rules are orif they've changed over the years.

    ETA: The Kindle app is working again, so I could open up the Olympic Charter. The seemingly relevant part is the Chapter 41 bylaw:

    There were some references on the net to a two-year waiting period for the Winter Olympics, but that may have been specific to 1992 to 1994 to alter the Olympics from concurrent to alternating.

    The scenario in the OC is when an athlete holds dual citizenship, but not specifically if the athlete competes for a country for which s/he doesn't have citizenship. However, this may apply, if it refers to the IF championships.

    It doesn't apply to anyone who gets a new citizenship after competing for the country under his or her old one. There's no waiting period there, but that doesn't apply to Tran.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  5. CantALoop

    CantALoop Well-Known Member

    Would this have anything to do with the recent Japanese election in which there was a major shift in the balance of power? I remember that one of Japan's political parties supported the case of expediting Tran's citizenship.
  6. Jenifer

    Jenifer Active Member

    IIRC, it was the LDP that supported citizenship for Tran, and they just won the election.

    I think this breakup will turn out to be a blessing in disguise. I imagine that if Tran had somehow gotten Japanese citizenship, he would have had to renounce his Canadian citizenship which could have caused him all sorts of headaches in his later life after skating. I'm excited for him and his chances with any number of the possible partners mentioned here (my choice would be Purich)
    euterpe and (deleted member) like this.
  7. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    On a slightly lighter note, Mervin Tran tweeted this today:

  8. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

    Wow, he has a 3Z and 3F?? Yikes...
    Daleman and Tran would be wicked.

    I'm so 50-50 on that because I'd want to see her kick some hiney in singles. She and Osmond could start qualifying 3 women for Worlds sometime in the next cycle (yes, I'm getting so ahead of myself...leave me alone...heh)
  9. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

    So since Mervin isn't a fan of the loop, that would rule out Amelie as a partner (not that she's likely interested in pairs anyway, but that would be the nail in the coffin).
  10. jjane45

    jjane45 Active Member

    Work toward the iron lotus, oh boy. Best of luck to both Mervin and Narumi.
  11. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    A nail in the coffin to pointless fan speculation that was completely unrealistic. :p
    Erin and (deleted member) like this.
  12. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    So sorry to hear of the split. I really enjoyed this pairing and hope they both get new partners soon especially Mervin.
  13. kirkbiggestfan

    kirkbiggestfan Well-Known Member

    Amelie Loop Lacoste has the whole set of triples on paper. I don't think she is a good match but we have seen so many unmatched skaters pairing up because of that irrational thing called love.
  14. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

    Love can definitely make you overlook scratchy crossovers or bad jumping technique, but trying to lift an additional 25 lbs overhead would be pretty hard to ignore -and those dancing hearts can turn into stars of pain pretty quickly. Just sayin' :p.
  15. victoriajh

    victoriajh trying to ignore rod and find the eurosport feed

  16. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

  17. 5Ali3

    5Ali3 Active Member

    Absolutely, without question, times a million.

    In a way, you're both correct - but remember, there's a difference between learning pair elements and executing pair elements.

    Think of it this way: the man serves as the foundation for all pair elements. Would you prefer that the foundation of your house was made of jello and the first floor of concrete, or that the foundation of your house was concrete and the first floor was jello? Obviously, you'd prefer to have both a solid foundation and first floor, but if your foundation is shaky, it doesn't matter how solid the first floor is: it will collapse.

    Okay, now say that you have a solid concrete foundation and a solid first floor made with wood framing, drywall, electrical, plumbing, paint, appliances, and that dog filled with jello. Is is "harder" to be a concrete foundation or a complicated first floor? Certainly there is a lot more that can go wrong on the first floor - and if something goes wrong, like the refrigerator explodes with enough force that it shakes the house, the foundation provides the support to keep the house from shifting too much and falling down on the occupants.

    In other words: it's much harder to learn the boy's role in pairs; the girl can't do much of anything unless the boy is serving as the foundation, and the boy needs to understand how to react when any of the 18 trillion things that can go wrong actually go wrong. That learning curve is difficult to rush. Once both skaters understand how to skate pairs, the boy's role is indeed less complex than the girl's: it is easier to throw someone than to be thrown, although when the boy messes up, he looks fine while his partner is sitting on the ice and everyone is saying Jane fell on the throw. (Good pair boys say: we fell on the throw. The best pair boys say: we fell on the throw, but Jane's the one with the bruise. I'm going to get her some ice.) However, if the boy doesn't know how to throw, the girl's ability to do the jump or throw doesn't matter: not only does the girl still need to execute her complex part of the throw, but first she also needs to correct for the boy's mistakes. (Exception: Juvenile Pairs where the boy takes his hands entirely off the girl and then she does the "throw" Axel, and he beams. I dare you to avoid smiling when that happens.)

    Lifts and twists are serious, serious safety issues. There are so many components to a twist. As I said, part of the complexity here is understanding how to react to mistakes without overreacting. Pair boy's #1 job: keep his partner's head from hitting the ice.

    :) Thanks for the thought!
  18. LilJen

    LilJen Reaching out with my hand sensitively

    I want a "best pair boy" of my own! Although I have no pair boy to blame for my frequent falls on the ice.
  19. jjane45

    jjane45 Active Member

    Nice post, 5Ali3!
  20. NMURA

    NMURA Active Member

    According to this, the JSF is doing the tryout for Takahashi's new partner. A new team could be formed by the end of this month. Preferences are given to Japanese citizens.
  21. Akira Andrea

    Akira Andrea Well-Known Member

    This is an article in &#8220;Jiji Press&#8221; in Japan
    Translating to English from Japanese.

    The Japan Federation does special consideration for Narumi Takahashi
    16th January 2013, JST

    In 16th January, Japan Skating Federation opened the board of directors in Tokyo Metropolitan area and approved that Narumi Takahashi of Pair who canceled a combination with Marvin Tran (Canada), remains as the certified player of JSF. She is demoted temporarily from the special certified player of the best rank of JSF, but as soon as a new partner is decided, she will be returned to the said rank.
    The search of the new partner for Takahashi is being proceeded with at present.
    Hidehito Ito, the director of figure skating of JSF suggested that selection of the personnel is being narrowed down, saying that they are proceeding so as to be able to release in the end of January or the head of February. Takahashi and Tran won the third place in the Worlds last season but canceled the Pair in December last year.

    The Japan Federation does special consideration for Narumi Takahashi

    "JSF treats Narumi Takahashi of Pair with golden handcuffs "
    This is an article in "Sports Nippon" in Japan.
    Translating to English from Japanese.

    JSF treats Narumi Takahashi of Pair with golden handcuffs
    Jan. 16, 2013, JST

    On the board of directors on the 16th January, Japan Skating Federation approved the special treatment which Narumi Takahashi of Pair, who canceled the combination with Marvin Tran (Canada), is temporarily demoted to the certified player from the special certified player as the best rank of JSF but is returned to the special certified player as soon as her new partner is found out.

    According to Hidetoshi Ito the director of figure skating of JSF, it says that they are doing a tryout so as to be able to release the forming of the new pair in the end of this month, too, if it is early.
    As for the selection of the personnel, they seem to give priority to the Japanese because it may be able to participate to the Sochi Olympics of next year.

    &#8220;JSF treats Narumi Takahashi of Pair with golden handcuffs&#8221;
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013
    Lanna and (deleted member) like this.
  22. kirkbiggestfan

    kirkbiggestfan Well-Known Member

    Very curious to see who's going to try-out with her. Who will be conducting the try-outs? Japanese pair coaches?
  23. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

    They don't exist at the moment. :shuffle:
  24. jjane45

    jjane45 Active Member

    For a pairs lady and a single man with no prior pairs experience, what elements can they try out with?
  25. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

    Off-ice and padded mats are your friends for these try-outs. Obviously, basic stroking, footwork, SBS jumps and spins are all fair game -and give you a good idea of how well matched your timing is.
    gkelly and (deleted member) like this.
  26. NMURA

    NMURA Active Member

    Physical strength and basic skills (skating, spins, jumps) are what they should examine. Takahashi wouldn't be able to resume training until February. So they can't see the matching at this point.
  27. maatTheViking

    maatTheViking Danish Ice Dance! Go Laurence & Nikolaj!

    Since JSF is not sending a pair to the world championships this year, does this mean they don't have anyone qualified for Sochi no matter what? Or can they have a pair qualified for the team competition only? I forgot...
    also, I don't understand why a strong and rich federation like the JSF does not do more to develop pairs and dance? More medals is better, right? Their ladies and men programs are pretty solid - you should think they could try and convince some non Japanese pairs coaches to come to Japan? Dance too?
  28. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

    They can always try qualifying at the designated qualifying competition in the autumn. It's Nebelhorn this time around.

    I'm no expert in the subject, but .... (1) When has the JSF ever encouraged foreigners to come work as coaches in Japan? (2) At least for pairs, you need to have men of a certain height and upper body strength.

    If North Korea and China can produce male pair skaters, I suppose Japan can too, but it's not as if there is a ready supply of them in the Japanese skating system.
  29. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

    I think ice time has also been mentioned as an issue.
  30. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

    Even if they don't have a team qualified in London or Nebelhorn, they can assign a team to the team event. That's one of the provisions in the Sochi announcement. Whether there will be TES minimums or whether the assigned skaters will be subject to them is TBD, and if they are, based on current championship rules, chances are they will be required by a date close to the start of the Olympics.