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Sochi bids for 2017 Worlds

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by clairecloutier, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. Piper

    Piper Member

    Is it a political forum or figure skating forum?
    Sometimes I wonder...
    Nobody invaded anything. The Crimea had a referendum where its citizens voted for joining Russia. But who cares...The USA, the country that practically invaded Iraq, just loves to picture Russia as an evil center.

    The anti-gay law (debatable as it is) does exist but I don't remember any complaints from Olympics. Moreover, the athletes seemed to be pleased by the organization. And nobody is stupid enough to violate an international event on such level. I was there - the level of security was really high.

    The crowd was terrible for many reasons, and I'm not sure it will be much better at Worlds. It happened historically that the biggest part of figure skating audience lives in the north, not south of Russia. Moscow or St.Petersburg would be completely different story.

    But politics and prejudices aside, I vote for Helsinki. This country truly loves figure skating, I love how they organize Finlandia Trophy and, well, it's really easier and cheaper to get there. :D
  2. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

    A case can certainly made that there should be standards, particularly if visitors are vulnerable to violence or mistreatment. But visitors attending sporting events are usually protected from mistreatment to a large extent. Did visitors to the Beijing Olympics suffer due to China's lack of human rights protections?

    And then the question becomes, what should those standards be, specifically?

    At the same time, sports bodies need to consider finances and the advancement of their sport. China wants to advance its figure skating programs and holding a world figure skating championship is one way to generate interest in the sport. Plus, the rise of Chinese skating has made a huge contribution to FS, which is another reason in favour of China hosting worlds.
  3. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan A proud P/C fan

    Let's have it in West Bank.

    Firstly, who decides these standard is my questions ? US or EU, or does rest of the world have any say in this matter?. Human rights is a huge issue but should be applicable to everyone, any criminal act should be punished including waging wars on false context which resulted in lose of thousands of lives.

    A truth for a person may not the same for another, look at this article as an example (no worlds in US again:p).
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
  4. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Don't remember any complaints from the Olympics? Read Human Rights Watch's website. They have documentation. Also, in the beginning of the Olympics, four gay activists were arrested which was ignored because of the Olympics.

    Also, the Crimea situation is not as simple as the citizens of Crimea simply voting to secede from Ukraine and join Russia.

    Of course, every country has blood on its hands. However, some countries are much bloodier than others.

    Anyway, why are people so bent out of shape when politics enter a discussion? It's such a big part of everything we do that it's ridiculous to think you can't consider political reasons, especially when picking a country (countries' boundaries are all determined by geography and politics) to host an event where people of all types want to attend.

    Japanfan, the UN and the EU and the IOC and the ISU have no problems dictating standards that member nations should theoretically be held to. That was the biggest point of contention about award Sochi the games. The fact that the Olympic Charter was basically ignored and all for money.
  5. Piper

    Piper Member

    Strange, as it was, I used to read athletes' interviews, considering it as a sport event, not political.They seemed content with the organization.
    Gay propoganda is forbidden in Russia, so yes, I can believe about this arrest. Nobody can arrest you for being a gay, but it's not a good idea to organize parades or something. I'm not saying, it's good or bad, just stating the fact.

    Because, nobody knows for sure what really happens there, including Ukraine events. We can only see the news, and they are sooo different from each other, depending of the country's policy. The only way to be a little closer to the truth is to talk to people who live in that place or actually go there. And you still won't know the whole truth - so yes, I kinda prefer discussing things that are not as full of lie as politics.
  6. allezfred

    allezfred Master/Mistress of Sneer Staff Member

    There was a practice rink. I saw video footage of it. Practices in the main rink were limited during the Olympics because it was also the venue for short-track.

    Just as at Worlds, practice times were limited so many skaters chose to leave Sochi until their individual events started (particularly the ice dancers and ladies) so they could get more ice time elsewhere.
  7. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

    But we are talking about Worlds, not the Olympics. Are there any standards in place that host countries of Worlds should theoretically be held to? If so, what are they?
  8. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

    Just to clarify something. The Crimea at the time of the referendum belonged to the Ukrainian State and, from what I know, the Ukrainian Constitution writes that any change to the territory of Ukraine can be resolved solely by a national referendum. In my understanding of the Crimean referendum, it was not a national consultation of the Ukrainian population.

    Hungarians form the majority population in two districts of Slovakia. Do you think Hungarians living there should be allowed to hold a local referendum and ask the people in those two districts to vote for joining Hungary? Wouldn't that invite people to violate the internationally recognized borders?
  9. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

    Would love to see Worlds come to Israel! :encore:
  10. Piper

    Piper Member


    I seriously believe that in can really quickly turn into offtop, besides my English isn't good enough for political discussions so I'll try to give as short answer as possible.
    The Crimea, despite being a part of Ukraine, has always been an Autonomous Republic. You can argue about the validity of this referendum but it took place and it was based on the decision of this Republic's government and Crimea's citizens. So it's hard to call it an invasion and if you seriously think that Russia plans to invade other territories...Please. It will be the end of Russian economy - it's state is bad enough now.

    Least of all, I fail to see the connection between this situation and organizing a figure skating event.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
  11. allezfred

    allezfred Master/Mistress of Sneer Staff Member

    Politics aside, Sochi is a pain in the ass and expensive to get to from practically anywhere in the world besides Russia.
  12. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    I don't see why we can't simply use the standards put forth by the UN or EU. However, if that's too much then maybe the ISU and other federations recognized by the IOC should follow the IOC's Olympic charter in terms of non-discrimination and the recognition of rights. As we've seen, it wouldn't be too burdensome as the IOC feels free to ignore it. If the ISU wants to lift those standards even higher, then I wouldn't mind. Or maybe since the ISU is under the jurisdiction of Switzerland according to their constitution, maybe it should then follow what the Swiss do. Switzerland tends to rank high in terms of human rights (such as having a constitutional ban on discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation).

    Of course the ISU has no standards or an explicit non-discrimination policy in its constitution. It's objectives are to promote figure skating/speed skating and get as many countries to become members of the ISU. So even if the country turned to be Nazi Germany or Uganda, giving those countries membership wouldn't go against the ISU's constitution theoretically. I think most people would have a problem if Uganda (with the promotion of the right to kill gay people law) was hosting Worlds (let's use our imagination and pretend there's an arena with an ice rink there).

    There is some language here:
    However, that probably only means the interests in regards to figure skating, speed skating, and proper representation within the ISU. If it went beyond that, then I'm sure Georgia and Ukraine could argue that it's interests were not observed and respected if Sochi were given Worlds. However, it probably does not go anywhere near there.

    Basically, no point of view please.
  13. riveredge

    riveredge Active Member

    i expect speedy and co. will vote for sochi..
  14. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

    There was. They had ice time. They also had 2 weeks between the competitions and no reason to stay there. There were 2 practice rinks - one for ST and one for figure skating. Same size, different ice quality. The fact the unacreddited press was not allowed there doesn't mean it didn't exist.

    Some of the gay FSUer were there. Dunno, was it bad?
    The other damage is already done. Not using the facilities will not reverse it. They might as well have some events and boost their business.
    Again, we have no idea whether it's true. There were SO many dogs on the streets I don't believe they were killed.

    Sure. Do you have 2 Olympic size ice rinks? Oh... right...

    In the mean while Mutko (Russian sports minister) spoke to Rsport
    Process of biding for a big event is explained in the law book. Some are rushing into things and then tell the tales.
    The minister explained Sochi is to host a 2017 bobsleigh worlds, some of the football games, Formula 1 grand prix.
    `Should Gorshkov want to hold the Worlds in the Figure skating Federation expense only we don't mind. We will look into the proposition, just that there is no hurry. The standard procedure is to apply to the ministery of sport. We have to learn the situation and the financial state.
    We are fully booked till 2021'

    Sounds like an ego fight between Gorshkov and Mutko to me...

    All that said I hope Helsinki get the competition.
  15. kosjenka

    kosjenka Pogorilaya’s fairy godmother

    I know Croatian skating federation begs for Worlds. But I have no idea how to accommodate all those people.... The amount of reporters that arrived for Yu na KIM was overwhelming for poor Dom Sportova... Maybe in new multi purpose Arena? I am just not sure we can afford it.
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia Still recovering from Worlds...

    ‘Urgent’ Need to Improve Sochi Olympic Legacy Plans - Audit Chamber
  17. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

    So do I!!! Much better choice than the corrupt Russia, which I hope won´t get ANY major competitions for a long, long time...
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  18. Eladola

    Eladola Active Member

    Well, i was being funny, But if you're gonna take it seriously,

    Yes, There are three ;)

    Kinda far apart though :cool:

    Sounds about right
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
  19. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

    Nope, it's being left there. The only ones getting moved are the ugly ones-- Shayba and Ice Cube. ;)
  20. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

    2 actually.8 hours away one from the other...
  21. Eladola

    Eladola Active Member

    Yup, But Nokia hall in Tel aviv has the capacity of being turned into an Olympic size ice surface with many seats.

    Same goes for "Beitan 1" in north tel aviv come to think of it, Much like was done at the "Syma" in Budapest.

    I love how this is becoming a conversation :lol:
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
  22. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    I feel so dirty even thinking this and it's totally hypocritical but for figure skating's development benefit, we really need an oil-rich sheikh's child/grandchild to watch Disney's "Ice Princess," add Brown's "Riverdance FS" to their favourites on YouTube and get their daddy/granddad to build a Svarovski-crystal encrusted ice rink designed by Zaha Hadid, where the seventh GP event as well as numerous other international competitions and shows will be held regularly. Blood money FTW! :slinkaway

    And make sure that *at least* 17 Palestinian homes have been bulldozed in order to build the ice rink.

    Because some people don't want to feel upset by acknowledging the (grim) reality which would make them feel powerless or even guilty?

    You can't really put 'politics' in a box and on a bottom shelf, away from your eye-sight. It affects everything that we do.

    Following this logic, you wouldn't be able to discuss anything, ever.

    Because when you read anything that has ever been written about any subject, you are reading a view of a person, who comes from a specific culture and has specific views, which obviously impact how that person perceives the world. And who knows, they might be lying. And how can you know for sure anyway, if you haven't done if yourself. How can you tell me that your stomach is filled with gastric acid, which digests the food that you eat. Have you cut somebody's stomach open, drained it and did a chemical analysis to confirm it? (etc. etc. etc.) ;)
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2014
  23. greenapple

    greenapple Well-Known Member

  24. greenapple

    greenapple Well-Known Member

  25. misskarne

    misskarne #AustraliaForTheTeamEvent

    Sochi is hardly the only sporting venue with stray dog problems.

    Bruno Senna was sent death threats by PETA after hitting and killing a stray dog while racing GP2 in Turkey. Given that he was going 200+kph at the time and the dog ran out in front of him, I don't see how he was supposed to avoid it, but I rather think PETA missed the point - he was swearing about the dogs on the track afterwards because hitting anything in a formula car has the potential to be lethal to the driver.
  26. The Observer

    The Observer Active Member

    I am sure there are still dogs in Sochi, but that doesn't mean that they didn't get rid of some of them.

    I don't know anything about the story other than what I saw on the news here in North America, but it gave viewers a bad impression of the situation.
  27. Meoima

    Meoima Well-Known Member

    Just give the chances to other cities please. :(
  28. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan A proud P/C fan

    Sochi games are over and they still have stray dogs in the city, which is not the case with many western cities, what happens to dogs in these cities ?, what happens to dogs kept in shelter homes are they all taken care of till they die a natural death ?; personally humans should not harm any animals and killing them and eating them is just evil

    Sochi problems with dogs will very much pale in comparison with Pyeongchang's.
  29. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Are you saying what I think you're saying?

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

    Until the Russian federation promises to enforce a "no vuvuzuelas" in the rink policy, they should NOT be allowed to host a World Championships.

    That said, if Russia is awarded another Worlds, why not in Moscow, where there are a lot of knowledgeable skating fans, where it is easy to get to, at least from the rest of Europe, unlike Sochi.

    But I'd rather see Worlds in Barcelona, Helsinki, Australia, etc. in short, somewhere that hasn't had a big event recently.