Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by icellist, Jul 12, 2011.
I am still traumatised by that Olympic LP. My first introduction to men's figure skating (okay not quite, we'd seen Lambiel, Weir, Takahasi and Chan before that) and we were greeted by this flaily, slimy, greasy, touch-myself-all-over, creepy guy. All the self touching was seriously creepy, gotta say.
Never really understood how anyone could call Plushenko "flaily" but call Lysacek "artistry".
Chan deserves every PC mark he gets
I agree. Most jumping errors also detract from the choreography (and pretty much always from the mood) of the program and that should be reflected in lower PCS as well as the TES. Often when a skater has jump problems, the skater also just seems to be not quite on top of thing in other aspects of the program as well. Even when that general roughness does not translate to falls, those skates should not get the same PCS as that skater's better skates.
Even without a fall, one of those clinging for dear life landings takes extra seconds and is often followed by a bit of rushed choreo to catch up, sometimes reducing the choreographic impact of the next element as well. There also are some top skaters whose post-fall body language just looks like they have stopped selling the program and are just going thru the motions. That too should be reflected in PCS scores
Even good skaters have days where they are skating tight and are "not quite over their blades today" as the announcers like to say and Chan is not immune to this.
I TOTALLY agree with you! I find both Evgeny and Evan similarly annoying in the flail category.
Ditto. And seriously overmarked on transitions as well.
Ryan Jahnke was another one who was hosed in PCS. If only he had a consistent axel, he might have received Buttle-esque scores.
Yet you like Plush's style with all those hip rolls and genital thrusts? Yes, right, that's got it.
At least Plushy looked like he was having fun with the hip rolls. He was fun to watch. Lysacek looked like he was taking the self-touching extremely seriously. It was creepy.
"Fun" is in the eye of the beholder. Truly not an objective criteria.
Extremely gifted by the judges:
Lysacek, Chan. And Plushenko.
Gifted : Kavaguti & Smirnov, in the Olympic season.
Your definition of fun to watch, and mine are light years away from each other.
I think, over the span of his career, that Johnny Weir was both PCS gifted and ungifted. In the early years of the system, Weir was about the only guy getting PCS marks close to Plushenko, then after about 06 or 07, he seemed to lose a point or two across the board.
I know they periodically rewrite the guidance for marking PCS, so that may have accounted for some of that, but it just always struck me as kind of odd the way the judges turned on him.
you're just jealous
But in all seriousness...
I think Yu Na is always gifted. I heard she got Level 4s for her spiral once, I can't remember what competition. But when I heard that I was ?!. I know it's not a Sasha spiral and not all spirals have to be, but the position she hits to me looks awkward.
Personally, that's just me. I never got the Yu Na hype and I probably never will.
I'm gonna ignore the Bradley part because it's obvious from your name you like him so therefore would support him.
However your comments about YuNa confuse me. For the spiral, gaining levels has nothing to do with how pretty it looks. "I heard she got level 4s for her spiral once", almost EVERY top skater gets level 4s for their spirals (when that was the rule). Gaining levels for spirals involved how long they held the position and the positions they were in. Since you think her position is awkward compared to Sasha (which is legitimate, I suppose, her foot isn't too good) I wonder if you are ever ?! about Ryan's slow spins.. You never got the Yu Na hype? Well, considering that she never has been off the podium in any competition and won Olympic gold..I'd say the hype is pretty deserved..
The Bradley part was a joke.
And no, I'd say most of her medals were undeserved. I never got the appeal of her skating. It has nothing to do with medals. Bradley has like 5 medals to his name and I still love him. For me skating has nothing to do with the titles or the medals, it has everything to do with the skating.
I'm not jealous, and I'm not the one who should be. Richard Dornbush and Jeremy Abbott should be the jealous ones.
But anyway, yes, he was pretty gifted. I was really rooting for him, I wanted him to win, but as he kept skating (can you even call it that?) in his FS, I just kept thinking to myself, "this program is soo empty." He skated very slowly, with shallow edges, and with knees that were never bent, the transitions were close to nonexistent, and when they were, they were simple, and the choreography was bland and generic - never consisting of much more than a few flicks of the wrist and a flashy smile. The only component I can agree with going above a 7.00 on is performance/execution.
His Nats FS to me, was what he said later, basically just skating for the hell of it since he thought he lost the title. I didn't like it either. I felt the Spokane FS kicked it in the ass. Oh well. He has his title, and I can die happy now.
You do realize that this is a thread about Program Component Scores, don't you? You do understand the difference between Total Element Scores and Program Component Scores, don't you? You do realize that the level assigned to a spiral sequence goes into the Total Element Score and has nothing at all to do with the Program Component Score, right?
Yuna is a great skater maybe one of the bests but I think that sometimes she's been gifted by judges both in the technical mark and the components score (World 2010 and 2011 come to my mind) and she deserved almost all her medals but not all of them IMO...I'm probably the black sheep here but that's what I think...
The technical mark can involve gifting by judges (GOE) and/or by the callers (levels, edges, UR). I would agree that judges sometimes abuse the GOE marks as badly or even worse than the PCS to gift their preferred skaters.
I'm the black sheep too, it's fine.
if we're thinking of someone gifted in the "technical mark", Miki of 2010-11 season should be on the list.
Before Japanese nationals, her technical marks (GoEs) were given pretty much as last season's, and after her win the national title-which was over 200 points (I know it's national blah blah)- starting at 4cc, her goe marks went up insanely just as much as her points were at japanese nationals.
I admit Miki's been consistent and rock-solid on her jumps and all, but I'd never think of her better jumper than yuna is or better spinner than alissa is or someone with better skating skills than carolina is, and in worlds 2011 Miki's goe on each jump, spin, step sequence element was one of the highest marks received in the ladies event.
and just so you know, all this is about element marks, not component marks.
2011 Worlds was the worst display of favoritism towards Yu-Na for me. Generally, I am a fan of Yu-Na's skating, but she really did not deliver at this competition to warrant a silver medal, or any medal at all, IMO. If I had been on that judging panel, she would have finished off the podium on my scorecard. That she won the SP with the flawed performance she delivered is an unbelievable joke to me. My final podium would have been: 1.) Ando, 2.) Kostner, and 3.) Czisny. I would have had Kim in 4th.
Well...if I'm not wrong Miki received high marks in each element you mention but not the highest...but I find completely wrong that yuna's spins were marked higher than alissa! expecially the layback...